Do I need to confess sins committed without full knowledge?

[LegoGE1947]

A lot of the converts around here (of which I am one) sometimes misapply terms and theological principles. Mortal and Venial sin are usually Catholic terms and someone in a OSAS camp would have no concept of any “mortal sin” the way a Catholic would understand it. So, while you may not know that sin (x) was mortal. Many mortal sins are written on the heart. So for example you may not know that Murder is a mortal sin while maybe having impatience with the driver in front of you is venial, One, if human, certainly knows that Killing an innocent person is contrary to God’s will. Where a Vasectomy might be something where Catholics and Protestants differ. It is grave matter without full knowledge. But certainly your theology would be lacking if you made the argument that it is Holy to do so. You would misunderstand the theology of sex and of marriage. While protestant, it might not constitute mortal sin (although it might) it certainly cannot be arrived at from an understanding of scripture or the teachings of Jesus. Though “Pastor Bob” might not object, your heart should. Especially if you took the time to have a “relationship with Jesus”

But like I said, you cannot apply Catholic terms, (mortal venial) to non Catholic concepts of sin. But it is grave matter and there was (usually)full will anyway. The argumetn is jsut knowledge. And if one wants to hang eternal salvation on the idea that they are ignorant of a surgery done voluntarily to them and the motivations behind it, then go ahead. The good news is that confession cleanses all.

However sin is sin, and mortal sin is mortal sin. Culpability is what we are talking about here. And culpability can be mitigated. But who knows how much? Certainly weather one knows the grave matter is grave or not, it is a stumbling block to heaven and is a path to hell, if one is fully culpable or not. There is NO redeeming grace in grave matter. (sin)

I also had a problem as a nonCatholic with the concept that even after you confessed a sin there still would be consequences to go through the result of having committed the sin in the first place. I thought “how cruel and heartless it was for God to kill off David and Bathsheba’s baby even after David confessed his sin.” I had no concept of Purgatory, in fact I was taught there WAS no Purgatory.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I also had a problem as a nonCatholic with the concept that even after you confessed a sin there still would be consequences to go through the result of having committed the sin in the first place. I thought “how cruel and heartless it was for God to kill off David and Bathsheba’s baby even after David confessed his sin.” I had no concept of Purgatory, in fact I was taught there WAS no Purgatory.

Most non Catholics do not believe in purgatory but almost every christian believes that sin exists. Otherwise you would have a lot of OSAS adulterous murdering idol worshipers…

 

[Bookcat]

I have a question about mortal sin. I know that for a sin to be a mortal sin, it must be committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent. Now, suppose I engaged in premarital sex and didn’t know it was a sin. Then, the “full knowledge” requirement is not met and I have not committed a mortal sin. Then, I later find out that premarital sex is a mortal sin. Even though this sin was committed without full knowledge, do I still need to confess it? Or is this only if I commit the sin after knowing it is a mortal sin?

Due to the grave nature and fundamental nature of the act – I would yes confess it - *noting though *the state of ones knowledge then -so the Confessor knows such as part of the confession.

1860 Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders. Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c1a8.htm#III

 

[LegoGE1947]

Most non Catholics do not believe in purgatory but almost every christian believes that sin exists. Otherwise you would have a lot of OSAS adulterous murdering idol worshipers…

That “adulterous murdering idol worshipers” is awfully hard to say, at least if you try and say it very fast:shrug: It can get your tongue caught around your eye-teeth so you can’t see what you’re saying! Then if you add “OSAS” to the mix, you could really have a situation!

 

[nickybr38]

1. I’m sorry someone gave you a hard time about this (earlier commentary). I’ve been where you are. To commit a mortal sin you must know an act is MORTALLY sinful, and us former Protestants had no concept of mortal sin. We knew SIN was wrong, but we didn’t always have a clear understanding of what was sinful. I know I was raised in a church where pre-marital sex was NOT seen as sinful.
2. I would confess them. They were not mortally sinful because you were not acting with full understanding, but they WERE gravely sinful. I tend to confess even venial sins if they weigh on my heart.
3. Prior to confession ask the Holy Spirit to reveal your sins to you. Give yourself a few days prior to confession for this. The Spirit WILL show you your sins if you are willing to give yourself that time to listen.

Welcome home.

 

[LegoGE1947]

1. I’m sorry someone gave you a hard time about this (earlier commentary). I’ve been where you are. To commit a mortal sin you must know an act is MORTALLY sinful, and us former Protestants had no concept of mortal sin. We knew SIN was wrong, but we didn’t always have a clear understanding of what was sinful. I know I was raised in a church where pre-marital sex was NOT seen as sinful.
2. I would confess them. They were not mortally sinful because you were not acting with full understanding, but they WERE gravely sinful. I tend to confess even venial sins if they weigh on my heart.
3. Prior to confession ask the Holy Spirit to reveal your sins to you. Give yourself a few days prior to confession for this. The Spirit WILL show you your sins if you are willing to give yourself that time to listen.

Welcome home.

Sometimes the Spirit might even use family or acquaintances to show you your sins. I even had an unbeliever show me mine once. Boy! Was THAT ever humbling!:blush:

 

[Bookcat]

Due to the grave nature and fundamental nature of the act – I would yes confess it - *noting though *the state of ones knowledge then -so the Confessor knows such as part of the confession.

1860 Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders. Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c1a8.htm#III

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

1. I’m sorry someone gave you a hard time about this (earlier commentary). I’ve been where you are. To commit a mortal sin you must know an act is MORTALLY sinful, and us former Protestants had no concept of mortal sin. We knew SIN was wrong, but we didn’t always have a clear understanding of what was sinful. I know I was raised in a church where pre-marital sex was NOT seen as sinful.
2. I would confess them. They were not mortally sinful because you were not acting with full understanding, but they WERE gravely sinful. I tend to confess even venial sins if they weigh on my heart.
3. Prior to confession ask the Holy Spirit to reveal your sins to you. Give yourself a few days prior to confession for this. The Spirit WILL show you your sins if you are willing to give yourself that time to listen.

Welcome home.

I am unaware of any Christian Church that explicitly states that premarital sex is not sinful. Granted, I am not up on my umpteen thousands of protestant Churches and Doctrine of them all but could you link to something that states this? I would find it quite interesting.

 

[nickybr38]

Sometimes the Spirit might even use family or acquaintances to show you your sins. I even had an unbeliever show me mine once. Boy! Was THAT ever humbling!:blush:

Oh yes! This happens to me all the time. Haha. I have a dear atheist friend who is a great vessel for learning and humility for me. AND, the best part is, she’s not doing it judgmentally. She loves me and honors my faith and attempts to understand and through her attempts to understand she reveals my sins to me. It’s great. She has been a greater source of growth for me than any of my Christian friends!

 

[nickybr38]

I am unaware of any Christian Church that explicitly states that premarital sex is not sinful. Granted, I am not up on my umpteen thousands of protestant Churches and Doctrine of them all but could you link to something that states this? I would find it quite interesting.

I attended the United Church of Canada before ultimately giving up on Christianity (and subsequently bring brought home to the Catholic Church). I am uncertain what their ‘official’ church doctrine is, but I do know the minister’s children were all ‘living in sin’, as it were and I also know she didn’t see anything at all wrong with it (yes, the minister was female).

I struggled greatly with understanding whether premarital sex was okay or not because it was so widely accepted in my parish. And, in fact, so widely accepted in the majority of denominations I attended prior to attending the United Church.

PS: Sometimes it’s hard for those who know the truth to understand the minds of those who don’t.

I see that you really seem to struggle with understanding how people could NOT know premarital sex is sinful, lying is sinful, etc. etc. etc. But I don’t think you understand the confusion that exists in the Protestant denominations.

When I was Protestant I was told in one ear that swearing was sinful but in the other ear that it wasn’t. I was told by one minister that masturbation was sinful but by another that it wasn’t. I was told that homosexuality was always wrong by one but then that it was not sinful by another (both using the Bible to support their claims). The confusion was overwhelming and fully capable of drowning out any whisperings the Spirit might have been speaking to my heart.

Before I abandoned Christianity (and began the road home to Rome), I was so confused about sin that I honestly saw the world in grey. I remember saying once: “It’s only a sin if you FEEL it’s wrong and you do it. Otherwise, if it doesn’t feel wrong, it’s not a sin.”

What other conclusion could I possibly come to when the Bible (which was our sole authority) could be twisted to support or rebuke virtually any act???

I KNOW that’s hard to understand for those who have the full revelation of truth but it’s so very difficult for Protestants.

 

[Jon_S_1]

I attended the United Church of Canada before ultimately giving up on Christianity (and subsequently bring brought home to the Catholic Church). I am uncertain what their ‘official’ church doctrine is, but I do know the minister’s children were all ‘living in sin’, as it were and I also know she didn’t see anything at all wrong with it (yes, the minister was female).

I struggled greatly with understanding whether premarital sex was okay or not because it was so widely accepted in my parish. And, in fact, so widely accepted in the majority of denominations I attended prior to attending the United Church.

PS: Sometimes it’s hard for those who know the truth to understand the minds of those who don’t.

I see that you really seem to struggle with understanding how people could NOT know premarital sex is sinful, lying is sinful, etc. etc. etc. But I don’t think you understand the confusion that exists in the Protestant denominations.

When I was Protestant I was told in one ear that swearing was sinful but in the other ear that it wasn’t. I was told by one minister that masturbation was sinful but by another that it wasn’t. I was told that homosexuality was always wrong by one but then that it was not sinful by another (both using the Bible to support their claims). The confusion was overwhelming and fully capable of drowning out any whisperings the Spirit might have been speaking to my heart.

Before I abandoned Christianity (and began the road home to Rome), I was so confused about sin that I honestly saw the world in grey. I remember saying once: “It’s only a sin if you FEEL it’s wrong and you do it. Otherwise, if it doesn’t feel wrong, it’s not a sin.”

What other conclusion could I possibly come to when the Bible (which was our sole authority) could be twisted to support or rebuke virtually any act???

I KNOW that’s hard to understand for those who have the full revelation of truth but it’s so very difficult for Protestants.

I can completely relate and understand. My experience exactly.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

…
I see that you really seem to struggle with understanding how people could NOT know premarital sex is sinful, lying is sinful, etc. etc. etc. But I don’t think you understand the confusion that exists in the Protestant denominations…
What other conclusion could I possibly come to when the Bible (which was our sole authority) could be twisted to support or rebuke virtually any act???

I KNOW that’s hard to understand for those who have the full revelation of truth but it’s so very difficult for Protestants.

This is an important post and I appreciate you taking the time to elaborate.
I too am a convert. My road was Mormon, Anglican, Presbyterian, and non denom until I finally found the Truth. I “Lived” in sin with several women. I sinned myself constantly. But here is the thing. I knew it was against ANY real Christ centered teaching of any denomination. Because of logic. People got married in Churches. People got married period! This told me something, this told me marriage is for something. Not only that but many people religious or not were not living as they knew was correct. Pastors were doing bad things, so were their families. I never assumed that if a pastor divorced his wife, left his kids and hooked up with the choir director that it was not sinful. In fact as someone who also had some calvinistic influences I recognized that everyone was sinful. And not only sinful but disgustingly so. It made perfect sense for me to see the ministers kids doing drugs and shacking up. Why? Because “hey brother, we are all sinners” And “I am the biggest sinner” (As if that meant some brownie points in heaven for some sort of false humility and a life of debauchery.) But here is the thing, I No matter what I did, drinking, drugs, sex, ABC, partying, masturbating, porn, illicit sex acts…etc. I never ever would have made the argument that they were holy, or that my Church taught them just because I saw other people in the Church even pastors doing the same thing.
Of course it was sinful. But what could be expected of me? I was a sinful person, in need of a savior. So of course I did these things. But could anyone, any church, I knew of make the case for these things NOT being sinful? No. But that is the thing. You probably could make the case for mitigated responsibility if I just did not believe or care enough to think about these things. But I did. I thought about them theologically. I thought about them because I was a member of a faith.

I think you could also say the same thing about Catholics. Look, I have confessed masturbation, and ABC to priests who have told me that the Church does not condemn these things. That it is not sinful and perhaps that I could not even help it. I have had a priest tell me to use ABC for the betterment of my marriage. Now does this mean that the Church teaches these things are moral and non sinful? No. It means that the priest was wrong. Does every person (Catholic) who went to this priest have no culpability for the sin if they are given bad council by the priest? Invincible ignorance does not work that way. Nor does God’s saving grace. Just like I knew that murdering someone was sinful when I was a protestant no matter what the way to redeem was. I knew that the priests were wrong. It would be one thing to claim," I was raised by godless hippies that taught me to masturbate from 5 years old on and I never heard of God or marriage on our commune."
But to be raised in a Christian Church and in a Christian society, one that puts people in jail for public masturbation, and of course the Church encourages you to read the Bible… Well, there really is not an argument. The argument is that it was sinful, but it did not matter because I was weak and Jesus has forgiven me and saved me… Because they do not understand Mortal and Venial sin, there is no answer how to rectify one’s sinful nature post baptism. So that is why confession is such an amazing sacrament and why I often lament the idea that somehow a protestant has to make it to heaven without this gift, and without the Eucharist.
Most every sin I have ever committed or will commit or am committing I know is wrong. I do not try to defend it and I may not know exactly WHY it is wrong, but I know.
What I see a lot of on these forums is a teaching or a sin that people struggle with and they cannot admit they are wrong. They claim that no one told them, or that their circumstance is different. Honestly that is the biggest satanic lie around. Because that lie and pride and mindset and shirking of responsibility keeps the confessionals empty. Just like the devil wants. We sit here and argue about culpability and mortal vs venial and ignorance et al. Wishing to be correct and maybe applying a little of our own arrogance, pride, and guilt into the conversation when really what is ALWAYS needed is that the person go to confession. They should be getting the advice and forgiveness from the priest, not the internet. And the priest should be faithful and knowledgeable about the faith!

Ignore the fact that the OP already confessed this. And just read the title of the thread. The answer is " talk to your confessor"
Always. I do not want to be part of a judgement of others by in any way leading them down my own personal theology and away from the welcoming arms of the Father in the Prodigal son in the confessional.
I take issue with what you said about the Bible. It cannot be twisted to support any act. You cannot make a case for homosexual pedophillia or other things. And you cannot make a case for masturbation. I dare you to try!

 

[LegoGE1947]

I am unaware of any Christian Church that explicitly states that premarital sex is not sinful. Granted, I am not up on my umpteen thousands of protestant Churches and Doctrine of them all but could you link to something that states this? I would find it quite interesting.

In some cases while they may not say certain actions are explicitly sinful, by the same token they won’t explicitly say they’re NOT! It is like some church leaders who say we “can have a reasonable hope that all people will be saved”. It leaves those in the pews confused.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

All of this brings to mind the beauty of being Catholic. A protestant cannot really answer “how to live justly” They just can’t but we as Catholics are told time and time again to sin no more. So it must be possible. We are given the saints to look to to show us that we can live a virtuous life no matter what our theological intellect or moral society says. We can also see in saints (Augustine) that we can be redeemed in be made holy in our actions no matter how sinful our previous actions. It was Augustine who sinned, who sexually sinned and KNEW it was wrong. If YOU want to get to the gates of heaven and sell Augustine on ignorance of masturbation or of habitual problems you have, good luck with that! Some saints had no sins. Innocents, Mary, and possible others. Other saints were horrid despicable sinners. It is again the protestants who deprive themselves of these Holy examples. But the sin, the grave matter, remains.

 

[nickybr38]

I take issue with what you said about the Bible. It cannot be twisted to support any act. You cannot make a case for homosexual pedophillia or other things. And you cannot make a case for masturbation. I dare you to try!

I disagree completely. I have heard these things argued FOR and quite convincingly, using Scripture. Scripture CAN be twisted and misused, that much is obvious. This is why Tradition is so important. Tradition helps us interpret Scripture properly.

BUT I won’t be the one to argue in favor of sin. I know I’ve been on the receiving end of such arguments (people arguing for them TO me, using Scripture) but I could never do it. Especially not anymore! Haha!

In my own journey I thought it was curious that the only sin that remained true (and that seemed to be Scripturally supported by that point) was to sin against conscience is the greatest sin.

I find it even more curious that you seem so lacking in understanding of the OP’s struggle when you yourself are a convert. I never KNEW for CERTAIN that ANYTHING was sinful when I was Protestant. I was just too confused to trust what my heart told me. I only clearly recognized sin when the Spirit came upon me and cleared the confusion away (before my conversion).

 

[LegoGE1947]

This is an important post and I appreciate you taking the time to elaborate.
I too am a convert. My road was Mormon, Anglican, Presbyterian, and non denom until I finally found the Truth. I “Lived” in sin with several women. I sinned myself constantly. But here is the thing. I knew it was against ANY real Christ centered teaching of any denomination. Because of logic. People got married in Churches. People got married period! This told me something, this told me marriage is for something. Not only that but many people religious or not were not living as they knew was correct. Pastors were doing bad things, so were their families. I never assumed that if a pastor divorced his wife, left his kids and hooked up with the choir director that it was not sinful. In fact as someone who also had some calvinistic influences I recognized that everyone was sinful. And not only sinful but disgustingly so. It made perfect sense for me to see the ministers kids doing drugs and shacking up. Why? Because “hey brother, we are all sinners” And “I am the biggest sinner” (As if that meant some brownie points in heaven for some sort of false humility and a life of debauchery.) But here is the thing, I No matter what I did, drinking, drugs, sex, ABC, partying, masturbating, porn, illicit sex acts…etc. I never ever would have made the argument that they were holy, or that my Church taught them just because I saw other people in the Church even pastors doing the same thing.
Of course it was sinful. But what could be expected of me? I was a sinful person, in need of a savior. So of course I did these things. But could anyone, any church, I knew of make the case for these things NOT being sinful? No. But that is the thing. You probably could make the case for mitigated responsibility if I just did not believe or care enough to think about these things. But I did. I thought about them theologically. I thought about them because I was a member of a faith.

I think you could also say the same thing about Catholics. Look, I have confessed masturbation, and ABC to priests who have told me that the Church does not condemn these things. That it is not sinful and perhaps that I could not even help it. I have had a priest tell me to use ABC for the betterment of my marriage. Now does this mean that the Church teaches these things are moral and non sinful? No. It means that the priest was wrong. Does every person (Catholic) who went to this priest have no culpability for the sin if they are given bad council by the priest? Invincible ignorance does not work that way. Nor does God’s saving grace. Just like I knew that murdering someone was sinful when I was a protestant no matter what the way to redeem was. I knew that the priests were wrong. It would be one thing to claim," I was raised by godless hippies that taught me to masturbate from 5 years old on and I never heard of God or marriage on our commune."
But to be raised in a Christian Church and in a Christian society, one that puts people in jail for public masturbation, and of course the Church encourages you to read the Bible… Well, there really is not an argument. The argument is that it was sinful, but it did not matter because I was weak and Jesus has forgiven me and saved me… Because they do not understand Mortal and Venial sin, there is no answer how to rectify one’s sinful nature post baptism. So that is why confession is such an amazing sacrament and why I often lament the idea that somehow a protestant has to make it to heaven without this gift, and without the Eucharist.
Most every sin I have ever committed or will commit or am committing I know is wrong. I do not try to defend it and I may not know exactly WHY it is wrong, but I know.
What I see a lot of on these forums is a teaching or a sin that people struggle with and they cannot admit they are wrong. They claim that no one told them, or that their circumstance is different. Honestly that is the biggest satanic lie around. Because that lie and pride and mindset and shirking of responsibility keeps the confessionals empty. Just like the devil wants. We sit here and argue about culpability and mortal vs venial and ignorance et al. Wishing to be correct and maybe applying a little of our own arrogance, pride, and guilt into the conversation when really what is ALWAYS needed is that the person go to confession. They should be getting the advice and forgiveness from the priest, not the internet. And the priest should be faithful and knowledgeable about the faith!

Ignore the fact that the OP already confessed this. And just read the title of the thread. The answer is " talk to your confessor"
Always. I do not want to be part of a judgement of others by in any way leading them down my own personal theology and away from the welcoming arms of the Father in the Prodigal son in the confessional.
I take issue with what you said about the Bible. It cannot be twisted to support any act. You cannot make a case for homosexual pedophillia or other things. And you cannot make a case for masturbation. I dare you to try!

The Bible back in the 19th century was twisted to support slavery, while some people used the same Bible to condemn slavery. Some people use the Bible even today to support all sorts of crazy things. So One can use the Bible (alone) to support or condemn just about anything. All you need is a few gullible followers and you have your own denomination!

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I disagree completely. I have heard these things argued FOR and quite convincingly, using Scripture. Scripture CAN be twisted and misused, that much is obvious. This is why Tradition is so important. Tradition helps us interpret Scripture properly.

BUT I won’t be the one to argue in favor of sin. I know I’ve been on the receiving end of such arguments (people arguing for them TO me, using Scripture) but I could never do it. Especially not anymore! Haha!

In my own journey I thought it was curious that the only sin that remained true (and that seemed to be Scripturally supported by that point) was to sin against conscience is the greatest sin.

I find it even more curious that you seem so lacking in understanding of the OP’s struggle when you yourself are a convert. I never KNEW for CERTAIN that ANYTHING was sinful when I was Protestant. I was just too confused to trust what my heart told me. I only clearly recognized sin when the Spirit came upon me and cleared the confusion away (before my conversion).

What about the OP’s struggle do I lack understanding in? Perhaps you should read the OP again. ANd read some other posts of hers where she confessed the very thing the OP is talking about.

I understand it perfectly. She is guilt ridden. She has no faith that her sin has been forgiven and is still trying to justify it by claiming she did not know. Though, it has been confessed. It is other posters who do not understand the OP perhaps because of guilt or the same doubts the OP has. But again. And I cannot stress this enough. The answer is to talk to a confessor. Not debate on if the sin will be held damnable by God or not because of a protestant upbringing which I don’t think the OP even had! There are some serious issues here not the least of which is an abortion. The OP is done no favors by the well meaning reassurance it is tempted to give someone. They need the CHurch, they need God, they need confession and the sacraments. Not someone telling them not to worry about it!

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Perhaps I do need to understand the OP better. The OP is male. I appologise for calling him a her. THe OP left the CHurch and has come back. Had premarital sex, convinced a girl to have an abortion and pay for it. He has confessed these sins.

There is no need to make the argument he did not know. As he did, because he confessed. Now he is clean. Pure and Holy. The sin, mitigated or not is wiped clean. The guilt however probably remains.
Thanks a lot satan!

My posts stand.

Many people leave the Church because of a disagreement. They find their way back and still struggle with some issues that they cannot submit too. I think there may be a little of that here.

 

[LegoGE1947]

What about the OP’s struggle do I lack understanding in? Perhaps you should read the OP again. ANd read some other posts of hers where she confessed the very thing the OP is talking about.

I understand it perfectly. She is guilt ridden. She has no faith that her sin has been forgiven and is still trying to justify it by claiming she did not know. Though, it has been confessed. It is other posters who do not understand the OP perhaps because of guilt or the same doubts the OP has. But again. And I cannot stress this enough. The answer is to talk to a confessor. Not debate on if the sin will be held damnable by God or not because of a protestant upbringing which I don’t think the OP even had! There are some serious issues here not the least of which is an abortion. The OP is done no favors by the well meaning reassurance it is tempted to give someone. They need the CHurch, they need God, they need confession and the sacraments. Not someone telling them not to worry about it!

Unfortunately, in some places a confessor just may tell the person not to worry about it! Could that not be a BIG problem? So many people as you say, need the church, need God, need confession and the sacraments. But they ALSO need someone who’ll tell them the hard truth.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I have a question about mortal sin. I know that for a sin to be a mortal sin, it must be committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent. Now, suppose I engaged in premarital sex and didn’t know it was a sin. Then, the “full knowledge” requirement is not met and I have not committed a mortal sin. Then, I later find out that premarital sex is a mortal sin. Even though this sin was committed without full knowledge, do I still need to confess it? Or is this only if I commit the sin after knowing it is a mortal sin?

OP
Please go talk to a confessor. Not to be forgiven again. But to help you understand that the guilt you still feel is unnecessary. I do enjoy the debate and want to continue it perhaps on another thread. Nicky is a class act. And though you are witnessing us disagree rest assured we are nothing but two amatur Catholics just trying to make sense of it all.
I would welcome another thread about this topic but I cannot in good conscience continue on this thread because I don’t want to engage in a conversation that could lead you to unnecessary justification for your sin when that sin is no more. I can see from previous posts that you still struggle with some Church teachings, and I encourage you to keep struggling, to keep seeking. And to keep being obedient even when it is hard or when you don’t understand, or when it does not make sense. I have read some posts of yours and have felt an incredible amount of emotion in them. Thank you for sharing with us, thank you for seeking the good.
Now, go see a good priest!

God Bless You.