Do I need to stop having intercourse with my fiancé forever?

[Sjg00]

So my fiancé is about to have her third c-section. I’ve learned that after the third c section risk of complications rise dramatically. The only baby I am the father to is the one she is now carrying hopefully and I’m pretty sad that it will be my only baby I’ll get to have but I’ve sort of accepted it because I don’t think I could live with myself if something happened.
We are both in rcia and are waiting to get together her ex’s previous marriage certificates so we can get an annulment. Another question I was curious about was if we are trying to avoid a repeat pregnancy for the purpose of preserving my fiancé’s life how could we consummate our marriage?

 

[Irishmom2]

Well, with all due respect, if she is carrying your baby, you already consummated your relationship.

 

[Sjg00]

Oh ok. I didn’t know it worked that way.

Do you think contraception is an option if it’s for health reasons?

 

[Annie]

First, breathe.

1. That the risk of complications rises does not mean that another pregnancy would be fatal. You need to get a clearer understanding from the doctor.

(Also remember that how much something is after it doubles depends on where it was before it doubled, so I hear people say breathlessly that the risk of something is double!!! Only to find out that the original risk was really low.)

1. Ask at your parish if there is an NFP instructor in the area.

 

[blackforest]

Have you been to premarital counseling yet? What did the priest say about this?

 

[Irishmom2]

Well, I am guessing that may not have happened seeing as she is not free to marry yet.

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

Do you think contraception is an option if it’s for health reasons?

No. You may not contracept to avoid pregnancy for any reason.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

So my fiancé is about to have her third c-section. I’ve learned that after the third c section risk of complications rise dramatically. The only baby I am the father to is the one she is now carrying hopefully and I’m pretty sad that it will be my only baby I’ll get to have but I’ve sort of accepted it because I don’t think I could live with myself if something happened.
We are both in rcia and are waiting to get together her ex’s previous marriage certificates so we can get an annulment. Another question I was curious about was if we are trying to avoid a repeat pregnancy for the purpose of preserving my fiancé’s life how could we consummate our marriage?

You might not be able to, until your future wife is of an age no longer to have children. With NFP, there is always the possibility of pregnancy. If that is a risk too grave to take, then the only alternative is a marriage without relations, as long as pregnancy is possible.

I realize that some on these forums might disagree with me, but I think that three C-sections are a perfectly legitimate reason for entering into marriage with no intention of bearing more children.

Marriages do not absolutely have to be consummated. It is true that the Holy Father can dissolve a marriage ratum sed non consummatum, but that does not mean the marriage is invalid, if you never make such a petition. And besides, there is also that time after the menopause.

Contraception or sterilization can never be morally justified.

 

[umamibella]

Oh ok. I didn’t know it worked that way.

Do you think contraception is an option if it’s for health reasons?

Catholics believe that we should not use contraception and that we should not have sex before a properly ordered catholic marriage.
You should not be having intercourse, then , at all, with your fiance.

Your fiance may not be granted an annulment by the church. It is not a given that the church automatically grants them. This is something you should really be prepared for and discuss with your priest now.
Talk to your priest or spiritual director about catholic marriage and issues surrounding intimacy within the marriage.

I might sound harsh but that is the reality with being catholic. We are called by God and we are to put God before all other things.

What will you do if she is not granted an annulment. This is something you really should be discussing now, with the priest.

 

[1ke]

. I’ve learned that after the third c section risk of complications rise dramatically

Did you learn this from the internet?

This is one of those things that varies greatly among women, and should be discussed with her doctor after she has the baby.

Another question I was curious about was if we are trying to avoid a repeat pregnancy for the purpose of preserving my fiancé’s life how could we consummate our marriage?

I would encourage the two of you to learn natural family planning from an instructor once she has the baby and her fertility cycles return.

There will be a prolonged period of abstinence until you are married (I assume you two have made a commitment to be chaste until marriage since you are both in RCIA). That period of abstinence is the perfect time to learn NFP so that if you need to avoid pregnancy for a time or indefinitely you can do so in a moral way.

 

[1ke]

Oh ok. I didn’t know it worked that way.

It doesn’t. That poster was being snarky.

You are new to the faith it seems.

First, you should bring your medical concerns to her doctor. And your moral concerns to your pastor.

The internet can be a good source of information, but not always.

 

[Irishmom2]

That poster was being snarky.

Actually, I was not being snarky. I was stating a fact. She is having his baby, they already consummated their relationship.

 

[1ke]

Actually, I was not being snarky. I was stating a fact. She is having his baby, they already consummated their relationship.

It sounded snarky.

And it isn’t correct vis a vis marriage consummation. He was asking about consummating the marriage. No prior intercourse substitutes for that. It is incorrect, theologically, to say what you said.

 

[DeniseNY]

Your best course of action is to speak to her doctor and to your pastor.

 

[Gorgias]

Well, with all due respect, if she is carrying your baby, you already consummated your relationship.

Oh ok. I didn’t know it worked that way.

It doesn’t. Consummating a marriage is different than “consummating a relationship” (whatever that means).

You two could practice what’s known as “Natural Family Planning” (NFP), if you discern that it’s proper in your lives right now, and thereby, only have intercourse when she is not fertile. In that way, you could not only consummate the marriage, but also, continue to have a physical marital relationship following your wedding.

I realize that some on these forums might disagree with me, but I think that three C-sections are a perfectly legitimate reason for entering into marriage with no intention of bearing more children.

Stated that way, it sounds like something that could later be seen as grounds for nullity, no? And, of course, a Catholic cleric is supposed to not celebrate a wedding that he believes is invalid.

 

[Annie]

Do I need to stop having intercourse with my fiancé forever?

BTW, you should have already stopped having sex with her as you two are not married.

After you two marry, then you may resume having sexual relations, and you can use NFP for the purpose of avoiding pregnancy for a serious reason, which it sounds like you may have.

However, discussions with the doctor are very much in order, as well as discussions with your priest.

 

[TK421]

A person can’t contracept to prevent conception.

I would reach out to a Catholic doctor + bioethicist to help you. Get more than one view. Many doctors will automatically default to the ‘use contraception/sterilization’ response because that is how they were trained to behave and they’re not necessarily an expert in every area. Doctors are knowledgeable but medical school doesn’t make a person omniscient.

Also, abstain from any future sexual intercourse until you are free to marry and you are married. Take one step at a time. God will give you the grace to move through whatever you need to move through.

And yeah, you can’t consummate a marriage when you’re not married yet. Don’t worry about the 2nd post. Stick with the support in your RCIA group and whichever priest you know.

Peace.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

HomeschoolDad:

I realize that some on these forums might disagree with me, but I think that three C-sections are a perfectly legitimate reason for entering into marriage with no intention of bearing more children.

Stated that way, it sounds like something that could later be seen as grounds for nullity, no? And, of course, a Catholic cleric is supposed to not celebrate a wedding that he believes is invalid.

The question of “are you obligated to intend to try to have at least one child, if nature permits — that is, to throw NFP to the winds for a long enough period of time, and to accept a child if Our Lord wills it?” has been discussed on this forum at length, generating much heat but little light. I have an inquiry out to the CDF in Rome on this matter, but I sent it right before the CV pandemic started blazing, and right about that time, all of Italy was pretty much shut down. I may get an answer one of these days, or I may never get one.

Even if this is the case, I do think that Church teaching allows those couples for whom a pregnancy would be not impossible, but very dangerous if it happened, to avoid having children for the entire duration of the marriage. If “all the cards were on the table” in the pre-nuptial interview, possibly putting this wish in writing and expressly saying that it would never be used as a ground for nullity, then I can’t see how it could invalidate the marriage.

I will welcome correction to the contrary, if I am not perceiving this properly.

 

[Sjg00]

Thank you for this answer. We have been living chaste. I was just wondering if there was anything particularly virtuous about having multiple children. I see a lot of children in some catholic families and I’ve heard the phrase women are saved through child bearing.

 

[Gorgias]

The question of “are you obligated to intend to try to have at least one child, if nature permits — that is, to throw NFP to the winds for a long enough period of time, and to accept a child if Our Lord wills it?” has been discussed on this forum at length, generating much heat but little light.

That’s not the standard for a valid marriage. You can argue the point, as you’ve posed it, but that’s a completely different subject. With respect to a valid marriage, the question isn’t “do you intend to try to have a child?”, but rather, “do you exclude the intention to have non-contraceptive intercourse?”

It’s the whole “open to life” question, and not a question of “planning to have a child.” A couple who practices NFP is “open to life”. A couple in which one or both spouses is sterile, and has non-contraceptive intercourse, is “open to life.”

“Trying to have a child” doesn’t come into it at all.

I have an inquiry out to the CDF in Rome on this matter

It’s pretty well-established that there’s not a requirement to try to get pregnant; only that a couple promises – by virtue of their consent exchanged at their wedding – to allow non-contraceptive intercourse. (And, to be fair, that doesn’t mean “always and every time”, either. It would be sinful when they resort to artificial conception, but if the plan on the wedding day is “the Pill for five years, and afterwards we start planning our family” is, per se, “open to life”. They’re just going about it in a way that’s somewhat sinful.)

Even if this is the case, I do think that Church teaching allows those couples for whom a pregnancy would be not impossible, but very dangerous if it happened, to avoid having children for the entire duration of the marriage.

Absolutely! They would practice NFP in their marital sexual relationship.

If “all the cards were on the table” in the pre-nuptial interview, possibly putting this wish in writing and expressly saying that it would never be used as a ground for nullity, then I can’t see how it could invalidate the marriage.

If the “cards on the table” at the pre-nup interview were “look – I intend to stay on the Pill for the entirety of our marriage, and that’s non-negotiable”, then that would count as an “intention against children”, and would indicate defective consent. (The cleric at the interview, and celebrating the wedding, might make the prudential judgment that this isn’t a definitive stance that they will hold for the rest of their lives, but just an expression of where their emotions / minds are right now, and therefore, allow the wedding to proceed.)