Do I Really Have to Account For Anti-Abortion Views That Don't Mean Anything?

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Alright, so I’ll be legally obligated to vote soon, so I have to ask, Am I seriously obligated to vote solely on abortion when there is no serious prospect of it going away?

The battle against abortion is lost, and has been for years now. The best we can get by voting republicans into office is fewer abortions, but even that is really a matter of holding back the tides. Eventually secularism will triumph and abortions will be freely available in every hospital. This is absolutely inevitable and cannot possibly be prevented from occurring. The same goes with homosexuality.

Now, given that abortion and homosexuality are (in my view which I don’t want to start a debate about) the only issues which the republican party is generally right about, am I obligated to ignore everything I believe about economics, immigration, science, the environment, and every single other issue I happen to agree with either party on for that one issue of abortion? If there were a serious possibility of abortion being permanently banned, that’d be one thing, but right now, I feel like I’ve been forced by the republican party to act against the poor, minorities, and all of their victims because they’ve decided to pretend they can effect long-term change on those issues.

(And I’m serious about not starting a political debate. You’re not going to get me to agree with the republican party on those issues and please don’t try or bring it up. I know someone will, but please, don’t, okay? I’m asking from within the assumption that the republican party sucks.)
 
You are morally obliged not to vote for a pro-abortion candidate. The only acceptable case for this is if no pro-life candidates are available. You can either vote for a pro-life Republican candidate, or a 3rd party candidate, or you can refrain from voting.

Per your request I won’t bring up the other political subjects, but I will say that I think your view that abortion is a lost cause and universally accepted homosexuality is inevitable are very presumptuous and poor judgements. In terms of approval, abortion hasn’t actually gained any ground since the 1970s, and many states are making steps to severely limiting it.

As for homosexuality, its surge in permissiveness is mostly a Western phenomenon, and the West is a setting empire. It does not have the influence over the world that it once had, and in all likelihood its influence will only continue to decrease over time. I believe you should try to stop thinking like an American Catholic and start thinking like a cosmopolitan one. Our struggle against the culture of death is not isolated to the US. Christian ethics is making advances in many parts of the world, and the least we can do on our particular front is to hold back the tide.
 
As a Catholic, you should vote for those who uphold Catholic ideals. Abortion is not one of those ideals and if someone supports that, even if it is only for votes, I would lean toward not voting for that person. If it is only for votes, they are dishonest and untrustworthy. If they truly do support abortion, it is against Catholic teachings. It is no different that someone who supports murder, because it is the same thing. I often ask someone who doesn’t see the point in withholding a vote for a pro-Abortion politician if they support the death penalty. Most say they do not. I ask them what’s the difference. There is usually a long pause while the person thinks.

Giving in because you believe the battle is lost is not wise. Not only have there been great steps against abortion recently, there have been legal breakthroughs regarding States rights on matters such as this. Even if you honestly believe the fight is lost, that in no way allows you to turn and run away or in support of someone who backs the murder of innocent children. Abortion could easily be seen as the greatest sin of our generation, and many perceive it that way.

The real question isn’t whether you should vote for someone who has lost their way, but rather how you will account for your support of that person to God.

As TK421 mentioned, you can always vote third party (which I strongly suggest to eliminate the two party systems power) or not vote at all.
 
It is certainly not true that “The battle against abortion is lost, and has been for years now.” Such an attitude of despair is not Christian. Also, your simplistic conception of party politics in the US is deeply flawed. Basic morality and the need to oppose the Culture of Death applies to both parties.
 
To me it has always been important to maintain my values and faith even when I am in the minority. As long as we stick to our faith and what we believe there will always be hope. Sometimes you have to use the only tool we citizens have to attempt to do this, and that would be your vote. You are right, sometimes it can seem hopeless, but that is when you have to dig in because I assure you it doesn’t to God.
 
Always vote for what is right according to the Catholic faith. If we had everyone giving up because of the popular vote, how could we ever win the battle? Fight the good fight! Remember it is God who gives life. Going against Him is going with the evil one.
 
I lean neither right nor left, but center with God. I can’t in good faith vote for someone who supports the murder of innocent beings. It matters to God. I have the same moral conflict you seem to have, but mine is with welfare. I have been praying for God to soften my heart to do his will regarding the poor In this country and for the first time in forever I don’t think I care how much they want to tax me. They can have it, I don’t need it, I only need God. I don’t understand how a Catholic could possibly justify voting for someone who supports abortion, perhaps they can to themselves, but when I’m conflicted I just have a conversation with God about it and if it sounds silly out loud trying to explain or justify it to God …well then I know what to do.
 
ThePuppyTurtle said:
Alright, so I’ll be legally obligated to vote soon, so I have to ask, Am I seriously obligated to vote solely on abortion when there is no serious prospect of it going away?

The battle against abortion is lost, and has been for years now. The best we can get by voting republicans into office is fewer abortions, but even that is really a matter of holding back the tides. Eventually secularism will triumph and abortions will be freely available in every hospital. This is absolutely inevitable and cannot possibly be prevented from occurring. The same goes with homosexuality.

Now, given that abortion and homosexuality are (in my view which I don’t want to start a debate about) the only issues which the republican party is generally right about, am I obligated to ignore everything I believe about economics, immigration, science, the environment, and every single other issue I happen to agree with either party on for that one issue of abortion? If there were a serious possibility of abortion being permanently banned, that’d be one thing, but right now, I feel like I’ve been forced by the republican party to act against the poor, minorities, and all of their victims because they’ve decided to pretend they can effect long-term change on those issues.

(And I’m serious about not starting a political debate. You’re not going to get me to agree with the republican party on those issues and please don’t try or bring it up. I know someone will, but please, don’t, okay? I’m asking from within the assumption that the republican party sucks.)
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Do not make abortion the only thing that decides who you vote for, however. Vote for who you think is right. Just because someone is pro/anti-abortion doesn’t make them a bad/good candidate.
 
If a candidate is for abortion, there is no way they can have true concern for the poor, the marginalized, etc. no matter what they say, because to be for abortion is to be on the record stating that some humans are just less human and less worthy of being born than others. I cannot and will not ever support a person that fails to recognize basic notions of equality, no matter what they try to tell me otherwise.
 
It seems that you are looking at the political scene right now and seeing a division between social issues and fiscal issues. You agree with one party’s handing of the fiscal issue, but not that party’s handling of the social issues. The other party, in your view, handles the fiscal issues very badly, and is not succeeding with their view of the social issues, which is where you agree with them.

What the Church says about this is that one cannot vote for a pro-abortion candidate *for that advocacy. *That would be immoral.

If there is a *proportionate *reason to vote for a pro-abortion candidate, this is permissible.

There have been plenty of discussions on CAF (mostly the World News forum) on what one party actually has accomplished in the area of abortion, and there have been plenty of discussions (mostly on the Social Justice and World News fora) about the results and ways the government gives aid to the poor. There are also plenty of sources on the internet for information. (What I’m saying here is that it’s not all black-and-white the way a lot of people think it is, and we have to educate ourselves in order to vote well.)
 
Perhaps I’m just ignorant on the issue (I’m not American), but I had thought the pro-life movement was making some fairly substantial gains in the US? I think that battle is far from over.

Regardless, if you really think that a candidate is only superficially voicing his/her support for the anti-abortion movement, I think you should treat them as neutral and/or (passively) pro-abortion. I do not think God intends us to be so gullible that we must believe everyone who says they are anti-abortion when they have no tendency of following through. Use your own judgment.
 
ThePuppyTurtle said:
Alright, so I’ll be legally obligated to vote soon, so I have to ask, Am I seriously obligated to vote solely on abortion when there is no serious prospect of it going away?

The battle against abortion is lost, and has been for years now. The best we can get by voting republicans into office is fewer abortions, but even that is really a matter of holding back the tides. Eventually secularism will triumph and abortions will be freely available in every hospital. This is absolutely inevitable and cannot possibly be prevented from occurring. The same goes with homosexuality.

Now, given that abortion and homosexuality are (in my view which I don’t want to start a debate about) the only issues which the republican party is generally right about, am I obligated to ignore everything I believe about economics, immigration, science, the environment, and every single other issue I happen to agree with either party on for that one issue of abortion? If there were a serious possibility of abortion being permanently banned, that’d be one thing, but right now, I feel like I’ve been forced by the republican party to act against the poor, minorities, and all of their victims because they’ve decided to pretend they can effect long-term change on those issues.

(And I’m serious about not starting a political debate. You’re not going to get me to agree with the republican party on those issues and please don’t try or bring it up. I know someone will, but please, don’t, okay? I’m asking from within the assumption that the republican party sucks.)
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Really?

Well, I used to be a liberal democrat, but I began to find my faith again, see the damage the democratic party has done, not only to the Catholic Church, but also Christian churches! The democratic party has, almost single-handedly, been the greatest thorn in the Church’s side, its enemy!

Look at how Catholics and Christians will go out, try to make a living, minding their own business. Someone will drop by, say they must sell them contraception, perform abortion, participate in “same sex marriage” ceremonies or receptions or else.

The “or else” now is quite serious. The democratic government will no longer uphold the First Amendment rights to freedom of religion, at least not for Christians or Catholics. So, the “or else” can include being fined maybe a million dollars, closing down, or being put in jail!

Now, perhaps for the first time in our history, practicing Christianity/Catholicism can get you convicted a “hate crime”. So, we are “bigots”, and “discriminating” for just practicing our faith!

We’ve seen, under the democrats, where homosexuals would go to Catholic institutions in an effort to shut them down, and now, often succeed!

What about the protections for Catholics/Christians?

We have seen Christian cakebakers, for example, being told they must make homosexual wedding cakes…although it goes against their faith, would get them into hell, or else! So, these Christians have been even hauled into court for practicing their faith!

We’ve had a lot of cases. Recall one case where in Massachusetts a gay couple wanted to adopt at Catholic Social Services. Instead of going elsewhere, they determined to, literally, make a federal case out of this. They took it took court. The Catholic Church lost, and the Church said it’d rather close down the adoption unit than adopt to homosexuals, since that went against their faith. So, indeed. homosexuals closed down the adoption unit and others.

Now, that adoption unit was there for years, was, I think the largest in the area. There is, I think, at least a 5-year waiting list for children. However, this is how bad things have gotten in this country of late.

At least Republicans typically will defend the First Amendment right and generally not even allow that to happen in the first place.

True, the republican party isn’t perfect, but besides trying to uphold the First Amendment, it protects the right to life, or tries to. It upholds traditional marriage.

If one is a Christian or Catholic, I almost can’t see what one would even have in common with the democratic party, since the list where the republican party coincides with the Church is just so long.

As to fiscal responsibility, the Republic Party is one of the only ones talking about the need to cut deficit spending, which will create huge problems for us all in the future.

As to the poor, the Republican Party doesn’t necessarily believe giving money is always the best solution. It often takes the philosophy that it’s often more prudent to teach someone to fish than to give someone a fish.

As to the poor, let me tell you about that, as well. There are a lot of working poor. Their plight is one of the worst, since, they are working so often can’t qualify for benefits that others, who don’t, can.

So, I have a friend who has 8 children, youngest has Down’s syndrome. They both work, but the wife says that she’d never vote Democratic. She said even besides the life issue, she insisted she couldn’t afford to see her health insurance go up.

So, although promised our health insurance wouldn’t go up, it did. I think hers did. I know mine did, and I had 2 health insurances, and I have a disability, was working part-time.

As to fiscal responsibility, curbing deficit spending, I’d put the Republicans on it any day. They are at least willing to TALK about the problem!

I have also seen churches responding to these open attacks. So, pretty much any church I can remember, come election time, will set out REPUBLICAN yard signs! Well, at least Republicans haven’t persecuted the Church like Democrats of late.
 
You will be legally obligated to vote? What fascist country do you live in?

It has been mentioned that the War for Women has not been lost yet. You only have to look toward Texas to see that great strides have been made to roll back abortion laws and make a real difference by closing those horrific abortion mills and protecting women with restrictive laws. But you only have to look toward California to realize that though we may win a few battles, the war is not won and our votes are desperately needed to save millions of babies yet to die.

It makes no sense to vote for pro-death Democrats who will take the first chance they have once in office to make horrible decisions for abortion and its related evils, contraception, euthanasia, homosexual marriage, etc.

That being said, it sometimes makes no sense to vote for a Republican. Why? Because it seems to me that the Republican party has no motivation to abolish abortion altogether. If it is abolished then we have won the war, but we have lost a wedge issue that sets the GOP apart from the Dems. Wedge issues are vitally important to career politicians. Taking a stand on this wedge issue proves that they are toeing the party line. So it makes more sense to pay lip service to anti-abortion causes, and pass some token laws that kind of restrict it a little bit, but God forbid they outlaw it altogether. In fact complete abolition may be impossible with the current climate in the SCOTUS and many Circuit Appeals courts around the country. We are at a ridiculous point in history where it would be difficult to constitutionally support the right to life when the SCOTUS ruled against it consistently.

But by no means we should give up the fight. Babies are dying every day by the thousands. There is a holocaust going on and we can’t bury our heads in the sand. By all means continue to pray at abortion mills and make your opinion known to your Congresscritter. Prayer, fasting and almsgiving are our weapons of mass destruction against this scourge to humanity.
 
The democratic party is typically into bigger and bigger government that we can’t afford!
 
Elizium23 said:
You will be legally obligated to vote? What fascist country do you live in?

It has been mentioned that the War for Women has not been lost yet. You only have to look toward Texas to see that great strides have been made to roll back abortion laws and make a real difference by closing those horrific abortion mills and protecting women with restrictive laws. But you only have to look toward California to realize that though we may win a few battles, the war is not won and our votes are desperately needed to save millions of babies yet to die.

It makes no sense to vote for pro-death Democrats who will take the first chance they have once in office to make horrible decisions for abortion and its related evils, contraception, euthanasia, homosexual marriage, etc.

That being said, it sometimes makes no sense to vote for a Republican. Why? Because it seems to me that the Republican party has no motivation to abolish abortion altogether. If it is abolished then we have won the war, but we have lost a wedge issue that sets the GOP apart from the Dems. Wedge issues are vitally important to career politicians. Taking a stand on this wedge issue proves that they are toeing the party line. So it makes more sense to pay lip service to anti-abortion causes, and pass some token laws that kind of restrict it a little bit, but God forbid they outlaw it altogether. In fact complete abolition may be impossible with the current climate in the SCOTUS and many Circuit Appeals courts around the country. We are at a ridiculous point in history where it would be difficult to constitutionally support the right to life when the SCOTUS ruled against it consistently.

But by no means we should give up the fight. Babies are dying every day by the thousands. There is a holocaust going on and we can’t bury our heads in the sand. By all means continue to pray at abortion mills and make your opinion known to your Congresscritter. Prayer, fasting and almsgiving are our weapons of mass destruction against this scourge to humanity.
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By being legally obligated to vote, the OP may live in a nation like Australia. In that case, Australian politics tend to be centered around a moderate view and most are pro-choice. I hope you can find a reasonable candidate, OP.
 
ThePuppyTurtle said:
Alright, so I’ll be legally obligated to vote soon, so I have to ask, Am I seriously obligated to vote solely on abortion when there is no serious prospect of it going away?

The battle against abortion is lost, and has been for years now. The best we can get by voting republicans into office is fewer abortions, but even that is really a matter of holding back the tides. Eventually secularism will triumph and abortions will be freely available in every hospital. This is absolutely inevitable and cannot possibly be prevented from occurring. The same goes with homosexuality.

Now, given that abortion and homosexuality are (in my view which I don’t want to start a debate about) the only issues which the republican party is generally right about, am I obligated to ignore everything I believe about economics, immigration, science, the environment, and every single other issue I happen to agree with either party on for that one issue of abortion? If there were a serious possibility of abortion being permanently banned, that’d be one thing, but right now, I feel like I’ve been forced by the republican party to act against the poor, minorities, and all of their victims because they’ve decided to pretend they can effect long-term change on those issues.

(And I’m serious about not starting a political debate. You’re not going to get me to agree with the republican party on those issues and please don’t try or bring it up. I know someone will, but please, don’t, okay? I’m asking from within the assumption that the republican party sucks.)
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The fact that you posed a question like this suggests to me that maybe you shouldn’t vote at all!

I think ClearWater said it best!

Mike
 
I concur with the OP. I’m 34, and have voted in almost every election (including municipal elections) since I was able to. Every time, I go in conflicted as to who to vote for. Eventually, I simply split my vote - in other words, I vote for some on either side so that neither side can gain enough power to ruin the country/state/city. The reason for this is because the policies of both parties, if left unchecked, will bring ruin to our country. The Catholic Church is my political party as well as my religion. The big problem, really, is that our political system has created a false divide between “pro-life” issues and “social justice” issues. As I said before, they cannot truly be divided from each other. If you are truly pro-life, you are also socially just, and if you are truly socially just, you are also pro-life.

What good are food stamps if the people who would receive them are aborted? There is nothing socially just about allowing abortions for any reason. Yet at the same time, people who are already alive yet do not make enough to eat (either because their job pays poorly or because they, for some reason CANNOT work) should not be forced to starve. There is nothing pro-life about allowing people to starve to death for circumstances that they currently have no control over. And there is nothing pro-life about allowing a select few to make more and more money while a higher and higher percentage of people make less and less - this will cause more people to be forced into food insecurity, raising the need for food stamps and other government handouts, inflating our deficit and debt. The problem with unfettered capitalism as an economic policy is that it ends up forcing the government into extreme socialist measures to take care of those left behind by unfettered capitalism.
 
I would not vote for a candidate who favors allowing children to be killed at the parent’s discretion up until twelve years of age. Neither would I vote for someone who favors allowing them to be killed during the first nine months of their life, or in their old age, or at any time in between.
 
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