Do intelligent animals have rational souls?

[meltzerboy2]

Of course. Haven’t you heard of the spirituality of mathematics? But I get what you mean.

 

[Le_Cracquere]

There’s a pretty big difference in kind, and not just degree, between what God has bestowed on humans and on even the most intelligent animal. Nonetheless, I think there’s a reasonable middle ground between “animals have rational souls in the theological sense” and “animals are meat automatons that contain nothing capable of persisting beyond their biological lives.” Creation, after all, is something that God means to REDEEM in the end rather than supersede … and it seems to me that the personalities unique to so many individual animals might justifiably figure into that.

 

[SPONP4US]

Do parrots or any other animals build computers, cars, cities, airplanes, write books, etc.?

No but neither do human Feutses in the womb, yet they have Souls. These former things , where not created for thousands of years, and so are no margin with which to guage the Soul of man, let one go use In a discussion of wether animals can possess the same.

They are also very worldy and material things, not exactly pinnacles of human piousness.

 

[SPBlitz]

I’m not quite sure what you’re objection is. Yes, the human animal evolved from something ape like, and at some point God instilled this creature with a soul.

Perhaps this first ensouled human ‘Adam’ was an adult. Perhaps not. But Feser notes, when talking about a dog without any limbs:
The nature of such a poor creature would not have changed, but it would have been reduced to realizing only the smallest fragment of what would naturally flow from that nature.

Presumably a human infant, that can’t ‘reason’ as an adult, would similarly have the same ensouled nature of the adult, it just hasn’t ‘realized’ as in, made it actual (in the Thomostic sense).

 

[Zach]

If rational soul is understood as the form or the living principle which along with matter makes the substance of human beings rather than a separate entity altogether which somehow has to be joined to matter at some point in the process it’s more l likely to be considered compatible with evolution. There is a point at which humans became capable of abstract thought and advanced reasoning. Perhaps when the human species, homo sapien, appeared. At that point the rational soul became the form or life principle joined with matter resulting in both the essence, that which is common to humanity regardless of if at some point individual humans cease to exist, and the substance, the individual human manifestations of the essence.

 

[victrolatim]

As a parrot owner I can vouch that my little girl is intelligent, observant, capable of certain emotions and can be psychologically manipulative. This being said, she does not have the same type of soul as a human. She does not have the capability to develop a moral compass or to “sin” in any way. She cannot profane our Lord, she cannot lust, she cannot disrespect the Lord’s day, etc. The only way she knows if something is right or wrong is through my training which is a rudimentary method of following an action with an undesirable consequence. She doesn’t have a conscience to tell her these things.

 

[Pat_Albertson]

"Animals that show mirror self-recognition undergo four stages:

social response,
physical mirror inspection,
repetitive mirror testing behavior, and
the mark test, which involves the animals spontaneously touching a mark on their body which would have been difficult to see without the mirror."

I don’t know about a social response here, or touching a mark, but she certainly engages in physical mirror inspection and repetitive mirror testing behavior. She’s not going for a mark, but she’s certainly curious about the existence of her ears.

She’s not really rational, she won’t ever do calculus or symbolic logic, but she’s obviously self-aware, aware that she has a body divided into separate parts, an appearance, and some sort of connectedness between her different bodily parts.

This guy is teetering on the edge between self-recognition and attacking that “other cat in the mirror”. Why self-recognition rather than just straight “other cat in the mirror”? Notice this: he’s not puffed up, his fur isn’t erect. Cats usually fluff up and try to appear bigger when they’re going to fight; this guy isn’t doing any of that.

Perseus is mad, he doesn’t get it at all. Notice his back and tail, all ruffled and puffed up. He’s swearing as well.

Now check out all the silly mirror fighters, and pay special attention to the ruffled, puffed up, and arched backs, as well as the big fluffed out tails. Also note how a few try to go around the mirror glass to the ‘other room’ in the mirror. I had a cat who would try to go around the television screen to get to where she thought the stock market ticker tape was coming from at the bottom of the screen. Clearly they have ideas, even if erroneous, of the concrete reality of 3-d objects (other cats, other rooms, endlessly scrolling ticker tape) as presented by mirrors and tv screens.

Some (or perhaps just a few of the more intelligent) cats get it, but a lot don’t.

 

[TK421]

Intelligence isn’t the measure of a rational soul. A person born in a vegetative state has a rational soul that is no less than any other person.

Cognitive abilities develop as a survival mechanism in the environment. True enough, it also inadvertently means animals start to do things that aren’t strictly necessary for survival, and humans most of all. But ultimately, an intelligent animal (defining intelligence in itself is extremely difficult, if possible at all) isn’t more or less alive than a “less” intelligent animal.

In my private opinion (and the one that makes the most sense to me), creation is going to undergo a transformation in the world to come and every creature that ever existed since the beginning of the universe will be resurrected in a more glorified state. Because humans are created in the image of God with rational souls, they can experience the Beatific Vision. This is an entirely unmerited grace.

The teaching of the Church is that only humans and angels are created with rational souls.

 

[EndTimes]

There are very intelligent animals out there. For example, the grey parrot can do basic math, knows human language, can count, understand the concept if zero, say what their favorite food is, and express their desires. Some are said to have the intelligence of a 5 yr-old child.

Yes… and in an extremely limited degree within a Myriad of manners when compared with Humans.

Whereas I’ve also heard tell that the smartest chimp can not keep up w/some 2 year old humans,

We could almost go on forever stating how Humans far far surpass ‘animals’ in millions of manners.

Re: Rational Soul akin to that of Humans? Care to expound upon that notion?

Other Living Organisms are not considered to be Children of God in the manner that Jesus is… .

 

[SPBlitz]

In my private opinion (and the one that makes the most sense to me), creation is going to undergo a transformation in the world to come and every creature that ever existed since the beginning of the universe will be resurrected in a more glorified state. Because humans are created in the image of God with rational souls, they can experience the Beatific Vision. This is an entirely unmerited grace.

This makes sense enough for me. I always wondered why God would create so much life if only humans were going to exist in the world to come. This strikes a good balance between animals being a part of God’s plan beyond just this world while also acknowledging the unique position of humans in it.

 

[EndTimes]

I always wondered why God would create so much life if only humans were going to exist in the world to come.

It still remains to be seen if animals wind up in Heaven…

 

[Inquiry]

I’d certainly give this topic a lot more thought if we were anywhere close to actual uplift. I don’t know where I would look to determine if an animal had a soul, but I think the ability to comprehend some degree of Christ and his mysteries would be a good starting point.

 

[TK421]

TK421:

In my private opinion (and the one that makes the most sense to me), creation is going to undergo a transformation in the world to come and every creature that ever existed since the beginning of the universe will be resurrected in a more glorified state. Because humans are created in the image of God with rational souls, they can experience the Beatific Vision. This is an entirely unmerited grace.

This makes sense enough for me. I always wondered why God would create so much life if only humans were going to exist in the world to come. This strikes a good balance between animals being a part of God’s plan beyond just this world while also acknowledging the unique position of humans in it.

For me, it comes down to fickleness and wastefulness: it seems very unlikely (in my opinion) that God created this universe and this world that is teeming with life and variety, and that it’s all basically garbage that is here today and destroyed tomorrow. It’s the kind of dimwitted notion that was probably invented by humans who lived in a harsh environment instead of by God himself. It just doesn’t seem like something that fits in with the rest of God’s divine attributes.

(I know this often comes up when a person’s pet dies, but that’s a petty reason. Animals are created by God and therefore have their own value apart from anything assigned to them by a human owner)

 

[StefanF]

I have always understood or was taught or heard, not sure which, that the bench mark is creativity. Animals can copy things, imitate and learn things but to truly create is beyond them.

 

[TK421]

Eh. Lots of animals demonstrate what could be considered creativity.

From a scientific standpoint, certain animals can do some pretty darn impressive things. This especially includes: primates, whales/dolphins, crows/ravens, dogs/wolves, any variety of cat, and a few others.

But then even supposedly “lower” lifeforms are incredible in their own way.

 

[STT]

Why rationality could be important? At the end, our souls also are sustained by God therefore they are not immortal.

 

[EndTimes]

Animals can copy things, imitate and learn things but to truly create is beyond them.

Only certain things… And then only to an extremely limited degree.

There’s similarities… and a world of no comparisons…

 

[Freddy]

So what is a soul?

 

[EndTimes]

So what is a soul?

Very often asked question… .

Some say – The soul , in many religious, philosophical, and mythological traditions, is the incorporeal essence of a living being.

Others would limit “living being” to Human Beings.

And before it’s forgotten, what shan’t be forgotten
Is that God created animals for use by Mankind…

_

 

[Lucretius]

The great and key sign of a rational soul is self-reflective thinking and a sense of being responsibility over one’s behavior.

We don’t deny that animals can have thoughts, even complex thoughts. What we see though is that these animals don’t have thoughts about their own thoughts. They are not conscious of their own consciousness, they do not think about their own thinking. Because of this, they do not compare their thoughts with reality, and so they don’t experience reality is true or false like we do.

This is also why, as a result, brute animals don’t produce philosophies, religions, works of art or architecture (culture), writing, language in the proper sense, science, etc. Brute animals thus also don’t experience their behavior as true or false to their nature or some standard or ideal, so they don’t have systems of ethics, or even the being able to be responsible for one’s action in the sense we are.

So, yes, animals can be very intelligent, but it isn’t because they have intellect. When both we and brute animals both look at a tree, we both see a tree (and actually, some animal see trees better than us), but only we humans see “biology” on top of this.

If you want a more fleshed out explanation, I recommend G. K. Chesterton’s The Everlasting Man, which you can fine for free, in both e-book and audiobook form, here:

www.gkc.org.uk/gkc/books/

I also recommend searching this blog on the topic, posts such as these (which have helped in my own understanding). They aren’t long, so you might want to read them real quick, but they are deeply insightful:

What is an experience of a spiritual soul?

A hundred years ago the immateriality of soul was only seen as verifiable through paranormal powers: telekinesis, ESP, knowledge of the future, astral projection, table-turning, reincarnation or wh…

thomism.wordpress.com

On lords as opposed to animals

-In the first question that he asks about human morality in the Summa, St. Thomas divides human beings from the animals saying that man is a dominus of his own action. Man is lord, and from his bei…

thomism.wordpress.com

What is unique to and distinctive of man in St. Thomas’s ethics

One of the more common debates in ethics is about the order between the intellect and the will, and its not uncommon for people to divide systems of ethics into the rational and the volitional/sent…

thomism.wordpress.com

Uniquely human traits, pt. II

Mike Flynn linked to an old post of mine about the difference between human and non-human animals. My exposition was terribly long-winded and fatty, but several of the basic points are tolerable. I…

thomism.wordpress.com

What is the thomist account of ‘uniquely human’ traits?

Brandon gives a very good first critique of a recent article which speaks to “Six ‘uniquely’ human traits now found in animals” I confess that I was rather puzzled on readin…

thomism.wordpress.com