Do Jews acknowledge that Jesus did call Himself by the same divine name revealed to Moses?

[agangbern]

Also, Jesus seems to say that His Father is “the only true God” in John 17:3.

And Jesus also said in Luke 18:19, “Why dost thou call me good? No one is good but only God.” Because he said that, does it therefore follow that He is not good? No, it doesn’t.

 

[Valke2]

No, Christians believe that while Jesus is God, they also believe Him to be the only Mediator between God and man. I presume that in His humanity He is Mediator, but Im not sure if this is true of His divine nature as well.

As FaithofAbraham mentioned earlier, see:

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

ok. But then the Jewish argument would be that Malachi was the last prophet. And while Jesus was alive, we had the Temple and the priests to mediate for the people of Israel. And that Jews don’t use someone who is dead as a mediator for anything.

 

[inJESUS]

However Jesus was talking about someone specific in relation to Abraham during this entire discussion, so he was referring to being that person. Just as the blind man also said the exact same phrase I AM in relation to what he was being asked in John 9:9 just a few verses later.

John 13:1-19

"From now on I am telling you before it comes to pass, **so that when it does occur, you may believe that I am. **
Isaiah 43:10-12

“You are My witnesses,” declares the Lord, "And My servant whom I have chosen, In order that you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am

Isaiah 44:24

Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, "I, the Lord, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself, And spreading out the earth all alone.

John 1:3

“All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.”

Deut 32:39

'See now that I, I am , And there is no god besides Me; It is I who put to death and give life. I have wounded, and it is I who heal; And there is no one who can deliver from My hand.

John 11:25

Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies,

Isaiah 42:6-7

"I am the Lord, I have called you in righteousness, I will also hold you by the hand and watch over you, And I will appoint you as a covenant to the people, As a light to the nations, To open blind eyes, To bring out prisoners from the dungeon, And those who dwell in darkness from the prison. "I am the Lord, that is My name

Acts 26:15-18

"And I said, ‘Who art Thou, Lord?’ And the Lord said, 'I am Jesus whom you [Paul] are persecuting. 16 ‘But arise, and stand on your feet; for this purpose I have appeared to you, to appoint you a minister and a witness not only to the things which you have seen, but also to the things in which I will appear to you; 17 delivering you from the Jewish people and from the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you, 18 to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, in order that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.’

Now, FaithofAbraham, what you have to do is prove that :

1-these writers had absolutly no idea what they were talking about, even less the OT.

2- all of them were preys to " textual coincidences"

 

[Kaninchen]

But certainly truth does not depend on what book we are holding unto. There must be an objective truth. And that objective truth ought to be sought after with open mind and heart.

‘Objective Truth’ as a concept belongs more to the Philosophy forum.

I take it that you are assiduous in your search for possible truth in Islam, Mormonism and the beliefs of south seas cargo cults as you would expect me to be about Jesus.

 

[Valke2]

And Jesus also said in Luke 18:19, “Why dost thou call me good? No one is good but only God.” Because he said that, does it therefore follow that He is not good? No, it doesn’t.

pretty much. At least according to his definition. If he’s saying why are you calling me good? no one is good but only God. A common sense interpretation would be that Jesus is saying he is not God and that only God is good.

 

[Kaninchen]

Why do they have to minimize the need for Jesus?

Why do Catholics feel the need to minimize the need for Mohamed or Joseph Smith?

 

[agangbern]

pretty much. At least according to his definition. If he’s saying why are you calling me good? no one is good but only God. A common sense interpretation would be that Jesus is saying he is not God and that only God is good.

And that Jesus is not good? No. I’m sure it does not mean that way.That is why it is dangerous to stick to one’s common sense interpretation when the interpretation would contradict common sense.

 

[agangbern]

Why do Catholics feel the need to minimize the need for Mohamed or Joseph Smith?

Has any Catholic poster here said that Catholics need to minimize need for Mohammed or Joseph Smith? None. You only imagined it.

 

[Kaninchen]

Has any Catholic poster here said that Catholics need to minimize need for Mohammed or Joseph Smith? None. You only imagined it.

I guess I must have missed the wholehearted desire for deep understanding of the validity of those two religions that you’ve been witnessing.

 

[agangbern]

I guess I must have missed the wholehearted desire for deep understanding of the validity of those two religions that you’ve been witnessing.

Are you imputing that I am bearing witness to two religions? Which two religions?

 

[inJESUS]

Why do Catholics feel the need to minimize the need for Mohamed or Joseph Smith?

because if there is a need to, we’d have taken it into consideratation…but knowing that Jesus is the Only Way, the only Mediator, Muhammad simply has no place, especially when he either contradicts what Jesus says about Himself, or gives different teachings…

In the case of Messiah, Jews are still waiting…so there is a need of Messiah, and there is a need of mediator.

 

[Lapell]

No, Christians believe that while Jesus is God, they also believe Him to be the only Mediator between God and man. I presume that in His humanity He is Mediator, but Im not sure if this is true of His divine nature as well.

Well, Jesus is a divine person with both divine and human natures. And He is one. So, the whole of Him is a Mediator between God and man, not just His human nature…

 

[Lapell]

ok. But then the Jewish argument would be that Malachi was the last prophet. And while Jesus was alive, we had the Temple and the priests to mediate for the people of Israel. And that Jews don’t use someone who is dead as a mediator for anything.

Who do they use then? Moses too is dead!

 

[Kaninchen]

because if there is a need to, we’d have taken it into consideratation…but knowing that Jesus is the Only Way, the only Mediator, Muhammad simply has no place, especially when he either contradicts what Jesus says about Himself, or gives different teachings…

In the case of Messiah, Jews are still waiting…so there is a need of Messiah, and there is a need of mediator.

That has a rather familiar theme to it - the idea that, somehow, Judaism is Christianity minus Christ because we’re waiting for a different one. The concepts of both ‘Messiah’ and what ‘Messiah’ is supposed to do are so hugely different - reflecting the fact that the two religions don’t ‘work’ in similar ways at all.

From a Jewish perspective, not only didn’t Jesus do what Messiah was supposed to do but what Christians say Christ did is completely irrelevant to the Jewish concept of Messiah.

I’ve said it elsewhere here but it bears repeating - I’d argue that the triumph of Christianity was to invent a disease and announce itself the only cure (only eventually to break up into numerous different cure pronouncements, each one saying that to partake of somebody else’s cure is a sure route to making the disease worse). With one another, discussing the efficacy of different cures is relevant - with those of us who think the disease is an illusion in the first place . . . .

 

[Lapell]

pretty much. At least according to his definition. If he’s saying why are you calling me good? no one is good but only God. A common sense interpretation would be that Jesus is saying he is not God and that only God is good.

I thought that Jews would at least try to state all possibilities of interpretation. In this respect, you have disappointed me…
There is another possible interpretation: that Jesus wants the man to realise how serious his question is and how important it is for that man to realise who he is talking to… like giving some hint!

 

[Kaninchen]

Are you imputing that I am bearing witness to two religions? Which two religions?

Err? You’re mistaking what I said - I was talking about witnessing in the sense of ‘seeing’ - in other words discussions about Islam or Mormonism here that you’d ‘seen’.

 

[Valke2]

Who do they use then? Moses too is dead!

we don’t use Moses as an intermediary. We just pray at our shul or synagouge and look to our rabbis for advice on how to best obey the commandments and live a Jewish life. The use of prophets to disseminate God’s word was fear of being too close with the Divine Word. In other words the mediator was necessary for when God spoke to the Jewish people. As we took on more and more responsibility for living out His commandments, these communications became less and less frequent.

 

[Lapell]

That has a rather familiar theme to it - the idea that, somehow, Judaism is Christianity minus Christ because we’re waiting for a different one. …]
From a Jewish perspective, not only didn’t Jesus do what Messiah was supposed to do but what Christians say Christ did is completely irrelevant to the Jewish concept of Messiah.

Or Christianity is Judaism, but with the Christ (Messiah) in it!
If Jesus was just a man, it would be as you said. But if he is risen from the dead and is seated at the right hand of the Almighty, then his Messiahship is not over, and He has all the time in the world to achieve what remains to be achieved, hasn’t he?
Moreover, I thought there was a teaching among the Jews stating that the whole Jewish people is suppose to do the works of the Messiah. Should we say that you have failed as the chosen People of God? Despite the appearances, I tend to believe the answer to this question is no.

 

[Valke2]

I thought that Jews would at least try to state all possibilities of interpretation. In this respect, you have disappointed me…
There is another possible interpretation: that Jesus wants the man to realise how serious his question is and how important it is for that man to realise who he is talking to… like giving some hint!

Well, maybe my blinders are due to the fact that when God wanted to let us know He was God, He did so. We didn’t have to interpret word games. Job doesn’t need to puzzle out if the diety who speaks to him claims to be God. Neither does Abraham or Moses. Or Noah. Or the people of Israel. God makes it crystal clear who He is in Judaism.

I am also not familar with the context in which Jesus says only God is good.

 

[Lapell]

we don’t use Moses as an intermediary. We just pray at our shul or synagouge and look to our rabbis for advice on how to best obey the commandments and live a Jewish life. The use of prophets to disseminate God’s word was fear of being too close with the Divine Word. In other words the mediator was necessary for when God spoke to the Jewish people. As we took on more and more responsibility for living out His commandments, these communications became less and less frequent.

Well, you have so many things to mind about just trying to obey the commandments, all you should have is reminders if you fail one way or another… and encouragements too!