Do Jews view this as anti-semitic?

[kalt]

Will each of you post your version of the section of the Talmud in question? Can you provide a link, if you found it on line?

Thank you.

 

[John92]

Will each of you post your version of the section of the Talmud in question? Can you provide a link, if you found it on line?

Thank you.

Some of them can be found here, though the most shocking, such as those claiming Our Lord is currently in Hell boiling in a vat of his own excrement, aren’t on this site:

nsm88.org/articles/talmudicteachings.html

Too long to quote it all and post it here.

Inb4 dozens of Jews calling me an anti-semite for reporting the contents of their Holy Book.

Like I said before, most Jews don’t believe this stuff. I’ve never met a Jew who claimed that Gentiles aren’t human beings and lack souls. I’ve never met a Jew who said that rape is okay for a Jew so long as it isn’t discovered. I’ve never met a Jew who talks about the hymens of 3-year-old girls. But still are these things to be found in the Talmud, which itself claims many times to be above the Torah, and which Orthodox Jews believe to be the unadulterated Word of God.

 

[Guyonthestreet]

Some of them can be found here, though the most shocking, such as those claiming Our Lord is currently in Hell boiling in a vat of his own excrement, aren’t on this site:

nsm88.org/articles/talmudicteachings.html

Too long to quote it all and post it here.

Inb4 dozens of Jews calling me an anti-semite for reporting the contents of their Holy Book.

Like I said before, most Jews don’t believe this stuff. I’ve never met a Jew who claimed that Gentiles aren’t human beings and lack souls. I’ve never met a Jew who said that rape is okay for a Jew so long as it isn’t discovered. I’ve never met a Jew who talks about the hymens of 3-year-old girls. But still are these things to be found in the Talmud, which itself claims many times to be above the Torah, and which Orthodox Jews believe to be the unadulterated Word of God.

It’s a shame the link you posted is associated with a supremist site, and its a bigger shame you didnt go and do some research before posting:

The Accusation

Yebhamot 11b: “Sexual intercourse with a little girl is permitted if she is three years of age.”

The accusation here is quite nefarious. It implies that Judaism permits pedophilia, has no respect for women, and generally advocates loose sexual morals. To those familiar with the Talmud, this claim is patently ridiculous. However, the majority of people — particularly those making this claim — know little to nothing about the Talmud, its contents, or its methodology. On our website The Real Truth About The Talmud, we elaborate on these issues. However, for now, we will focus on the accusation at hand. It is, in fact, easily verified as being incorrect.

The Text

Talmud Ketuvot 11b (The citation mentioned is evidently in error. Talmud Yevamot 11b has no relevant passage)

Rav Yehudah said in the name of Rav: A male child who has relations with a female adult causes her to be like one who was injured with a stick… Rava said: This is what was meant - an adult male who has relations with a female child has not done anything because less than this [three years old] is like sticking a finger into an eyeball.

While those unused to these Talmudic discussions might be taken aback by the use of euphemisms, the discussion here relates to the dowry for virgins and non-virgins. It has nothing to do with what acts are allowed, encouraged, forbidden, or discouraged. It is, indeed, ironic that this passage has been manipulated from its original context of a financial discussion into one of a religious discussion. While there are numerous talmudic passages of a religious nature, this one discusses dowries and not forbidden and permitted relations!

The Talmud relates that a virgin is entitled a higher dowry. While the tell-tale sign of virginity is the release of blood due to the breaking of the hymen on the wedding night, there are occasions when the hymen has already been broken such as when the woman suffered an injury. The Talmud here quotes Rav Yehuda in the name of Rav that a sexual act with a male minor is not considered to be a loss of virginity because one of the participants is not fully active. While the female’s hymen may have been broken, she has not engaged in what can be classified as a sexual act (although it is certainly child abuse).

The Talmud continues and quotes Rava as saying that a sexual act between a male adult and a female under the age of three is also not considered a loss of virginity (although it is child abuse). Since the girl is too young for her hymen to be broken, she is still considered a virgin.

Nowhere is the Talmud permitting such behavior. Sex outside of a marriage is strictly forbidden (Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Hilchot Ishut 1:4, Hilchot Na’arah Betulah 2:17; Shulchan Aruch, Even HaEzer 26:1, 177:5) as is this obvious case of child abuse. The Talmud is only discussing ex post facto what would happen if such a case arose.

From here

talmud.faithweb.com/articles/three.html

It nicely refutes all the other anti-semitic nonsense posted in your link.

 

[John92]

It’s a shame the link you posted is associated with a supremist site, and its a bigger shame you didnt go and do some research before posting:

From here

talmud.faithweb.com/articles/three.html

It nicely refutes all the other anti-semitic nonsense posted in your link.

Well I’ll be!

Thanks for humbling me. Clearly I was wrong about most of what I said of the Talmud. Though I do stand by the Christ stuff. And 'tis only natural that the Jews believe Christ to be in hell.

I still stand by what I said about, while Jews are not inherently bad, certain things about their culture have made many of them participate in the radical changes to Western civilization we’ve been experiencing. They didn’t fare well under the old order, and did much to hasten the ascendancy of the new.

But yeah. Thanks, didn’t know any of that.

 

[Kaninchen]

Well I’ll be!

Thanks for humbling me. Clearly I was wrong about most of what I said of the Talmud. Though I do stand by the Christ stuff. And 'tis only natural that the Jews believe Christ to be in hell.

I still stand by what I said about, while Jews are not inherently bad, certain things about their culture have made many of them participate in the radical changes to Western civilization we’ve been experiencing. They didn’t fare well under the old order, and did much to hasten the ascendancy of the new.

But yeah. Thanks, didn’t know any of that.

Need more time over at StormFront, I expect, get your act together.

 

[chosen_people]

Well I’ll be!

Thanks for humbling me. Clearly I was wrong about most of what I said of the Talmud. Though I do stand by the Christ stuff. And 'tis only natural that the Jews believe Christ to be in hell.

I still stand by what I said about, while Jews are not inherently bad, certain things about their culture have made many of them participate in the radical changes to Western civilization we’ve been experiencing. They didn’t fare well under the old order, and did much to hasten the ascendancy of the new.

But yeah. Thanks, didn’t know any of that.

Two things: first: Yehoshua Bar Yosef has exactly the same relevancy in Judaism as Siddhārtha Gautama (Buddha). Since we do not believe or associate the various special attributes which your religion associates with Yehoshua Bar Yosef we really do not now or have had in the past any reason to believe him to be any place other then any other Jew who lived some two thousand years ago (by the way your concept of “Hell” is also not the same as it is in Judaism). Likewise we have no developed opinion on Siddhārtha Gautama.

Secondly: For some 1800 years Christian anti-Semitic culture and edicts forced the Jews to live a separate and autonomous life in which they were not permitted to integrate into general society (some posters on this forum actually believe that the Jews and not the Catholic Church decreed that they should live ghettos or wear special clothing marking them as Jews or not be allowed to be employed by Christians). This changed in the beginning of the 19th Century with Napoleon when Jews were allowed for the first time to become citizens. Jews make up a mere one quarter of one per cent of the world’s population and only some two per cent of the population of the United States.

The reasoning behind the anti-Jewish Catholic Church edicts over the centuries was that
Jews and Judaism have a detrimental effect on the beliefs of Christians and Christianity. It’s modern manifestation, which you have repeatedly stated in your posts, is in the ideas of Fr. Denis Fahey on “Jewish Naturalism” or Fr. Freeney in point magazine or Fr. Coughlin of Catholic hate radio fame. Pofessor Kevin B. Macdonald has even developed a secular scientific theory to explain the effect and influence of Jews on the non Jewish population.

Of course these anti-Jewish concepts are insulting (and dangerous) not only to Jews but also belittle the faith of the Catholic adherent and his religion. If Jews and Jewish influence are so pronounced, why are there Christians? For over three thousand years we have explained that man actually has the intellectual ability to perceive God without giving God human form or by creating a representation of God in a statue. For over three thousand years we have held that human sacrifice is the ultimate pagan act and a anathema to God. For over three thousand years we have the concept of Torah in its wider sense and have dedicated ourselves to the intellectual development of this concept. Non the less, despite the “detrimental influence” of Jews and their religion, Catholicism is alive and well with over a billion adherents, firm in their faith.

However the insult to the Catholic 's ability to have faith in their religious precepts does not end with the concept that it is enough for them to come into contact with a Jew to cause the Catholic to waiver in their beliefs. Underlying this concept of influence is the belief that advancements in science and technology and intellectual thought naturally leads to the destruction of Catholicism and to the turning away of believers.

It shouldn’t matter what Obama’s stance is about abortion or whether a Jew or a gentile invented the birth control pill. A Jewish religious woman will not practice birth control since she will fulfil the commandment to be fruitful and multiply. She will not terminate her pregnancy unless she is able to do so under Jewish law in a life and death situation. Obama may be pro abortion but he could not have become president on the basis of the small Jewish vote - He became president because millions upon millions of Christians voted for him.Of course for those who seek to blame the Jews it doesn’t really matter. Bush, they claim, was influenced by the Jews, Obama is influenced by the Jews, the Congress is influenced by the Jews.

Yes Jews, since being allowed to start to integrate into general society, have made massive contributions in science, technology, medicine and intellectual thought in total disproportion to their numbers. However these contributions were not made to undermine Christianity. If the ten top secular Christmas songs of all time were written entirely or in partnership with Jews, the fact of the matter is that Jews were writting songs about Christmas despite their own personal beliefs. Next time you complain about “Jewish Hollywood” remenber that Jewish hollywood made the Bells of St. Mary and its a wonderful life.

 

[ZAKI]

Well actually what the Talmud teaches is that all people are equal.

Oh yeah okay “chosen people”

wasalam

 

[chosen_people]

Oh yeah okay “chosen people”

wasalam

Well I can give the sources in the Talmud. Perhaps you will give your talmudic sources to refute my statement.

 

[John92]

Need more time over at StormFront, I expect, get your act together.

Oh kiss off. I’ve never been on stormfront in my life.

So typical. Anybody who criticizes ANY action taken by Jews at ANY time must be some neo-nazi skinhead.

You want to know why so many people are anti-semitic? People like you. They see the way some Jews bully their positions into power - like Zionism - and they react by going to the opposite extreme.

(not talking about you “chosen people”, you gave me a lot to think about)

 

[Kaninchen]

Oh kiss off. I’ve never been on stormfront in my life.

So typical. Anybody who criticizes ANY action taken by Jews at ANY time must be some neo-nazi skinhead.

You want to know why so many people are anti-semitic? People like you. They see the way some Jews bully their positions into power - like Zionism - and they react by going to the opposite extreme.

You know, I think the game goes that you should be trying to be the epitome of reasonableness rather than reach for some ‘off the shelf’ diatribe in circumstances like this. In the face of a response calculated to get the kind of reply above, the last thing to do is to make it.

 

[John92]

You know, I think the game goes that you should be trying to be the epitome of reasonableness rather than reach for some ‘off the shelf’ diatribe in circumstances like this. In the face of a response calculated to get the kind of reply above, the last thing to do is to make it.

How does it feel to have a magic word one can use to end all debate on any subject?

That’s my point on this. I see too many people’s opinions get completely ignored because the Jews don’t like it. You can’t criticize Israel if you want to get elected. You can’t teach anything but “jews good christians bad” in the public schools. I’ve seen too many careers ruined because some jerk threw out that magic word at people who didn’t deserve it - Pat Buchanan, etc.

To hell with this thread, and to hell with you.

 

[Kaninchen]

How does it feel to have a magic word one can use to end all debate on any subject?

That’s my point on this. I see too many people’s opinions get completely ignored because the Jews don’t like it. You can’t criticize Israel if you want to get elected. You can’t teach anything but “jews good christians bad” in the public schools. I’ve seen too many careers ruined because some jerk threw out that magic word at people who didn’t deserve it - Pat Buchanan, etc.

To hell with this thread, and to hell with you.

Well done.