Do Jews who have been persecuted down through the ages believe it is the will of God?

  • Thread starter Thread starter valentino
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
V

valentino

Guest
We all know of the seemingly never ending persecution of the Jews from every other religion or nation.Jews in the past have always taken sort of a passive view to fighting back not only because they were in such a minority but also as a matter of belief.Since the establishment of Isreal in 48’ it has changed.They have the bomb plus a hugh arsenal of weapons which they won’t hesitate to use if they feel they have to.
 
We all know of the seemingly never ending persecution of the Jews from every other religion or nation.Jews in the past have always taken sort of a passive view to fighting back not only because they were in such a minority but also as a matter of belief.Since the establishment of Isreal in 48’ it has changed.They have the bomb plus a hugh arsenal of weapons which they won’t hesitate to use if they feel they have to.
In the book of Esther the Jews are in exile in Persia, apparently abandoned by God. Evil forces are planning their destruction and they are seemingly doomed. It is only at the end of the story that we realize that behind a series of what appear to be unrelated events, was the guiding hand of God, who saves the Jews with whom He has made an eternal covenant.

So only in hindsight can we understand how God has brought the Jews from apparent desperation to something greater.

There are three major events in Jewish history.1) The going out of Egypt, receiving the Torah and coming to the promised land;2) the destruction of the second Temple and the diaspora;3) The rebirth of the nation of Israel in her land.

In each case these major events were accompanied by events that seemingly signaled punishment of the Jews. In hindsight we can see that this “punishment” brought about a fundamental and necessary change in the reformation of the Jewish people. Moses spends the last third of his life wandering in the desert, never to enter the promised land. Neither do all the people who left Egypt with him. In forty years all but the youngest have died, replaced by two new generations. However, in those forty years a new Jew has been born, freed of slavery, guided by Torah. God has established the conditions for the Jew to turn from slave to freeman, able to rule himself, to fight and win battles, to withstand paganism.

The diaspora of the Jews is accompanied not only by the destruction of the Temple but by one third of the Jewish people dying in uprisings against Rome. However, from this calamity a new Jew is born. One so committed to his Jewish identity he alone of all the ancient peoples will survive. Judaism will cause the creation of Christianity. The Christians will pass laws virtually excluding the Jews from participating in general society and in essence causing them to live in a form of autonomy. However these anti-Jewish laws will not only insure the survival of the Jewish people and prevent their assimilation but also foster the conditions for the massive intellectual development of Judaism. When the Jews begin to be allowed into general society in the 19th century they will do so from this unique advantage, fully equipped to contribute in all areas of life.

Christian anti-Semitism will lead to the Shoah. Again one third of the Jewish people will die. However, once again events will lead to the recreation of a new Jew. The diaspora Jew will be replaced by one who can understand the essence and need of the Jewish State, the meaning of “never again”. The animosity and terror surrounding the Jewish State will not only not weaken it but cause its unprecedented development.

These interrelationships come up time and again as God guides the Jewish people. The King of France contributes to the American revolution helping the Americans to defeat the British. The extra taxation will lead to the downfall of the King and his eventual replacement by Napoleon. Napoleon will bring about the changes which will lead to the beginning of the allowing of Jews into general society. This will come about in time for the Jews to begin to come to modern Zionism and participation in the events that will lead to their re-independence in their homeland. The first State to recognize Israel will be the United States and the United States will become Israel’s close ally.
 
In the book of Esther the Jews are in exile in Persia, apparently abandoned by God. Evil forces are planning their destruction and they are seemingly doomed. It is only at the end of the story that we realize that behind a series of what appear to be unrelated events, was the guiding hand of God, who saves the Jews with whom He has made an eternal covenant.

So only in hindsight can we understand how God has brought the Jews from apparent desperation to something greater.

There are three major events in Jewish history.1) The going out of Egypt, receiving the Torah and coming to the promised land;2) the destruction of the second Temple and the diaspora;3) The rebirth of the nation of Israel in her land.

In each case these major events were accompanied by events that seemingly signaled punishment of the Jews. In hindsight we can see that this “punishment” brought about a fundamental and necessary change in the reformation of the Jewish people. Moses spends the last third of his life wandering in the desert, never to enter the promised land. Neither do all the people who left Egypt with him. In forty years all but the youngest have died, replaced by two new generations. However, in those forty years a new Jew has been born, freed of slavery, guided by Torah. God has established the conditions for the Jew to turn from slave to freeman, able to rule himself, to fight and win battles, to withstand paganism.

The diaspora of the Jews is accompanied not only by the destruction of the Temple but by one third of the Jewish people dying in uprisings against Rome. However, from this calamity a new Jew is born. One so committed to his Jewish identity he alone of all the ancient peoples will survive. Judaism will cause the creation of Christianity. The Christians will pass laws virtually excluding the Jews from participating in general society and in essence causing them to live in a form of autonomy. However these anti-Jewish laws will not only insure the survival of the Jewish people and prevent their assimilation but also foster the conditions for the massive intellectual development of Judaism. When the Jews begin to be allowed into general society in the 19th century they will do so from this unique advantage, fully equipped to contribute in all areas of life.

Christian anti-Semitism will lead to the Shoah. Again one third of the Jewish people will die. However, once again events will lead to the recreation of a new Jew. The diaspora Jew will be replaced by one who can understand the essence and need of the Jewish State, the meaning of “never again”. The animosity and terror surrounding the Jewish State will not only not weaken it but cause its unprecedented development.

These interrelationships come up time and again as God guides the Jewish people. The King of France contributes to the American revolution helping the Americans to defeat the British. The extra taxation will lead to the downfall of the King and his eventual replacement by Napoleon. Napoleon will bring about the changes which will lead to the beginning of the allowing of Jews into general society. This will come about in time for the Jews to begin to come to modern Zionism and participation in the events that will lead to their re-independence in their homeland. The first State to recognize Israel will be the United States and the United States will become Israel’s close ally.
A very informed, thoughtful, and thought-provoking answer! It seems to me to superimpose a kind of predestination of the Jewish people with the cherished Jewish belief in free will. And, as Martin Luther King stated with respect to African Americans, your response focuses on the Jews as a people (and a nation) rather than their destiny as individuals.
 
In relation to authentic Christianity, it is not the will of God to persecute the Jews or anyone else for that matter.

But in any association, you have all kinds of people on all kinds of awareness levels.
 
In relation to authentic Christianity, it is not the will of God to persecute the Jews or anyone else for that matter.

But in any association, you have all kinds of people on all kinds of awareness levels.
A good point since the post by chosen people suggests that G-d is testing the Jewish people’s faith and free will by persecuting them and using Christians and others as an instrument of persecution. This idea, as you point out, is contrary to the whole conception of what Christianity stands for. Still, I find the notion of the Jewish people as a suffering servant of G-d leading to the redemption of the world an interesting theme in Jewish history, and one which parallels the notion of Jesus as a suffering servant who redeems mankind.
 
Meltzerboy,

I am tend to agree with both ideas…and that the Lord closed the hearts of the Jews so that the Gentiles would be saved. The Jews would dominate the entire Church if they had remain in charge after the Church of Jerusalem.

I say that, having discusssed this observation with a Hebrew Catholic. He countered back that in no way did he or they have any intent. I said, I know. What I mean is that the Bible is the story of the Jewish people, and also the story for our own salvation. The Jews are God’s chosen people. I witness some kind of authority in them…those who are not believers in Christ. I see it more so with the Hebrew Catholics because when they speak of Scripture, they are speaking of their own people, their own history, their sufferings and joy…it is so real and deep.

So when they begin to see reference in Scripture of the Church – that we miss, or they pick up nuances in the Gospels that pass over our heads, they just have a more profound and stronger and authority of being in relationship with God. They believe some day the Hebrew Catholics will be of great help to the Church.

I share the same…and my turning point of renewal began with the Jewish Catholics…we need both Jew and Gentile for our faith to be fulfilled.

And the Catholic saints speak of persecution…it is good because persecution purifies and humbles us and brings us closer to God----provided we do not return evil for evil, that we suffer for the sake of goodness and justice…any person can be filled with the Holy Spirit in times of persecution.

And persecution brings the People of God closer together every day.
 
In the book of Esther the Jews are in exile in Persia, apparently abandoned by God. Evil forces are planning their destruction and they are seemingly doomed. It is only at the end of the story that we realize that behind a series of what appear to be unrelated events, was the guiding hand of God, who saves the Jews with whom He has made an eternal covenant.

So only in hindsight can we understand how God has brought the Jews from apparent desperation to something greater.

There are three major events in Jewish history.1) The going out of Egypt, receiving the Torah and coming to the promised land;2) the destruction of the second Temple and the diaspora;3) The rebirth of the nation of Israel in her land.

In each case these major events were accompanied by events that seemingly signaled punishment of the Jews. In hindsight we can see that this “punishment” brought about a fundamental and necessary change in the reformation of the Jewish people. Moses spends the last third of his life wandering in the desert, never to enter the promised land. Neither do all the people who left Egypt with him. In forty years all but the youngest have died, replaced by two new generations. However, in those forty years a new Jew has been born, freed of slavery, guided by Torah. God has established the conditions for the Jew to turn from slave to freeman, able to rule himself, to fight and win battles, to withstand paganism.

The diaspora of the Jews is accompanied not only by the destruction of the Temple but by one third of the Jewish people dying in uprisings against Rome. However, from this calamity a new Jew is born. One so committed to his Jewish identity he alone of all the ancient peoples will survive. Judaism will cause the creation of Christianity. The Christians will pass laws virtually excluding the Jews from participating in general society and in essence causing them to live in a form of autonomy. However these anti-Jewish laws will not only insure the survival of the Jewish people and prevent their assimilation but also foster the conditions for the massive intellectual development of Judaism. When the Jews begin to be allowed into general society in the 19th century they will do so from this unique advantage, fully equipped to contribute in all areas of life.

Christian anti-Semitism will lead to the Shoah. Again one third of the Jewish people will die. However, once again events will lead to the recreation of a new Jew. The diaspora Jew will be replaced by one who can understand the essence and need of the Jewish State, the meaning of “never again”. The animosity and terror surrounding the Jewish State will not only not weaken it but cause its unprecedented development.

These interrelationships come up time and again as God guides the Jewish people. The King of France contributes to the American revolution helping the Americans to defeat the British. The extra taxation will lead to the downfall of the King and his eventual replacement by Napoleon. Napoleon will bring about the changes which will lead to the beginning of the allowing of Jews into general society. This will come about in time for the Jews to begin to come to modern Zionism and participation in the events that will lead to their re-independence in their homeland. The first State to recognize Israel will be the United States and the United States will become Israel’s close ally.
thanks for responding.So in essence your saying God allowed all this persecution so the Jews could eventually be brought home to their state(nation)of Isreal.Do you feel that Jews are more intelligent than any other peoples(than Germans,or Chinese,or Africans)or at least wiser?Its still seems that the Jews have had to go through an awefully lot just to get to their Jewish homeland and become a state.What do you think the final outcome of the Jews will be?Will they just remain where they are to the end of the world?They will never be conquered again?Hhow can you be so sure?They’ve never believed what has happened in the past could have happened?What do you see as the real purpose of the Jews today?I won’t disagree with your opinions but what gives you the confidence to say all these previous persecutions were for the advancement of the Jews?Your scriptures never predicted such things?Neither did your rabbis(at least to the extent or locations).Is it just possible that since you know of all the things that took place and the Jews have survived that they may be a way to defend your position?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top