Do LDS Prophets Really Talk To God?

[ParkerD]

You are asking the wrong question. God is. He didn’t come to be Himself. He is “I am”. You have to understand that Time is a created thing. There is no universal time coordinate one can apply to God. This is hard for us, because we live in Time. Have a read through St. Augustine’s Confessions Book 11.

JHow,

Jesus Christ is “I AM”. He taught that He is the “Sent One”. This does not preclude Him from really, truly being the Only Begotten Son and the FirstBorn. He can still be the “Sent One”, the Anointed One, the Messiah, and be “I AM” and be the FirstBorn, the Only Begotten Son of Heavenly Father.

Have a good day.

 

[JHow]

JHow,

Jesus Christ is “I AM”. He taught that He is the “Sent One”. This does not preclude Him from really, truly being the Only Begotten Son and the FirstBorn. He can still be the “Sent One”, the Anointed One, the Messiah, and be “I AM” and be the FirstBorn, the Only Begotten Son of Heavenly Father.

Have a good day.

You are missing the point: You can’t apply a question of time to extra-temporal God. To do so is to misunderstand the nature of both God and Time.

 

[ParkerD]

You are missing the point: You can’t apply a question of time to extra-temporal God. To do so is to misunderstand the nature of both God and Time.

JHow,

That’s fine, but the Bible is clear that God the Father exists, and God the Son exists. The Jews, led by their leaders including the scribes and the Pharisees and Sadducees, rejected God the Son, Jesus Christ, who declared that He is I AM, and thus let them know that He is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and the God of Israel who led the children of Israel (their ancestors) in the wilderness. They were rejecting the One and only Savior, the Rock of salvation.

Jesus taught that He had life in Himself, as the Father has life in Himself. These are clear teachings, very specific in the Bible.

Jesus also taught that He was doing the things He had seen His Father do. Thus, there is a time dimension in Jesus’ teachings about Himself and about God the Father.

 

[Telstar]

Parker, who do LDS believe created those “intelligences”? If God didn’t create them, then where did they come from, and how, when and where did the first ‘god’ pop into existence? How could there even be an eternal ‘god’ if in order to become a god, you have to be a man of “flesh & bones”, first? Where did the first god get his “power & glory”? While you’re at it, which came first, the chicken or the egg? I’m serious, because you can’t reconcile the fact that god had to start from a man living on an existing planet in order to became a god, without there first being a place for that to happen. But, if there was no God to begin with that was capable of creating it, and putting it all in motion, how did it all start? The only solution I can think of would be to believe that the ‘Big Bang’ somehow happened without any true cause, and the resulting ‘accidental’ evolution of man created a super race of human beings that you call ‘gods’, that have some kind of magical or technological powers that they use to create the illusion of being all powerful beings (aka: aliens).

By insisting that God is merely an “exalted man”, you are left with a god that has no infinite power of his own, that cannot really ‘create’ anything, at all, and is totally dependent on the existence of ‘materials’ outside of himself, to put together as well as he can with the limited skills that he can muster, like a glorified artist forming lifeless statues out of clay. Don’t you see how weak that ‘god’ is compared to the True God that created the entire universe, including all matter, every atom and molecule, every speck of dust and drop of water, every creature that has ever lived, and everything else that has ever existed, including time, gravity and every other natural law that sets it all in motion? The One that actually created all of that out of nothing at all?

When you reduce the real all-powerful God to just being a man that somehow ‘grows up to be a god’, then he becomes puny and insignificant in comparison to the real God, that has the actual power to do all of that, and much more, that we can’t even begin to understand. He is the only source of all intelligence and everything else that exists, anywhere at all. The One Who has existed forever, without any beginning or end, the true Alpha and Omega, is the God we worship as Catholics. Not just some glorified man that has such limited power. I hope and pray that all LDS will someday recognize the immense difference between the One True God and the one(s) they choose to worship, because they are truly not the same God, no matter what names they choose to give them.

 

[JHow]

…Jesus also taught that He was doing the things He had seen His Father do. Thus, there is a time dimension in Jesus’ teachings about Himself and about God the Father.

Check the tense in John 5:19:

NIV: Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

KJV: Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

Jesus is not saying that everything he has done was previously done by His Father, but rather, He, Christ, does the things His Father does. He gives an example in the next verse: raising the dead.

 

[ParkerD]

Telstar,

Your post talked about the “one true God”. Do you believe God the Father is the “one true God”, or that Jesus Christ is the “one true God”?

I believe and know that They are One just as Jesus taught and prayed, and that Jesus was praying for the same condition of oneness when He prayed that His followers, true believers in Him, would be one with Him and with His Father.

I also believe and know that the Jewish leaders rejected the “one God” who was the Anointed One, “I AM”, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Jesus also prophesied that the same group who rejected Him and killed Him and would seek to “seize on his inheritance”. John also saw in vision that Satan would be allowed to have “power given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.” (Revelation 13:7)

So that would mean that just as Jesus taught in Matthew 21:43 that the kingdom of God would be taken from those who sought to “seize on his inheritance”, any attempt to not keep Christ as the “stone which the builders rejected” and who is the “head of the corner”, the Corner Stone, the Rock of salvation, is moving Jesus aside and focusing on something else besides Him.

Jesus taught that He and His Father were one, but He prayed to His Father because that was the right thing for Him to do. It is also the right thing for us to do, as He taught very plainly and clearly.

Peace and best wishes to you and all readers.

 

[ParkerD]

Check the tense in John 5:19:

Jesus is not saying that everything he has done was previously done by His Father, but rather, He, Christ, does the things His Father does. He gives an example in the next verse: raising the dead.

JHow,

Jesus does the things His Father does, yes. He also was explicitly saying that His Father has life “in himself”, and talks about the resurrection including that He would be able to resurrect Himself because the Father had given Him that same power–to resurrect Himself.

 

[TexanKnight]

So, Parker.

Are you saying that God the Father went down to a planet, healed the sick, made the blind see, did a last supper, and then was crucified?

Again, you leap here that God was human because Jesus chose to come down and be born of mary is insupportable but logic and reason and the Scriptures

 

[Nicea325]

So, Parker.

Are you saying that God the Father went down to a planet, healed the sick, made the blind see, did a last supper, and then was crucified?

Again, you leap here that God was human because Jesus chose to come down and be born of mary is insupportable but logic and reason and the Scriptures

That is the impression I also get from Parker?

 

[Nicea325]

JHow,

Jesus does the things His Father does, yes. He also was explicitly saying that His Father has life “in himself”, and talks about the resurrection including that He would be able to resurrect Himself because the Father had given Him that same power–to resurrect Himself.

Parker,

Let me ask you something…okay? Is time,space and matter applicable to God?

Yes or No?

 

[Telstar]

Telstar,

Your post talked about the “one true God”. Do you believe God the Father is the “one true God”, or that Jesus Christ is the “one true God”?

Parker,

Since you know I’m Catholic, I don’t think I should have to explain that to me the One True God is the Holy Trinity. That would include the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ) and the Holy Ghost (Spirit), because They are all the same God. They are completely inseparable in any way, even though each One is different and distinct. They are, and always have been, equal in all power, majesty and glory. Together, They are One God. It’s a very difficult concept to understand, but it’s a fact that’s been taught to us since the time of the Apostles. There is only One God, and He is a Trinity. Personally, I don’t have to understand it to believe it’s true.

I believe and know that They are One just as Jesus taught and prayed, and that Jesus was praying for the same condition of oneness when He prayed that His followers, true believers in Him, would be one with Him and with His Father.

Jesus prayed that His followers would be unified as ‘one body’ of believers (in His Church), in a similar manner as He and His Father are one. “John 17: [21] That they all may be one, as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee; that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.” He prayed for us to made worthy to share eternal life with God through our Baptism, and by following the way that He had taught the Apostles, to also teach us. Notice that Jesus says, “as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee”. They are not separate deities, They are One God, together with the Holy Spirit. They’re not just united ‘in purpose’. He created us to be with Him, but through sin we became separated from Him. But, He loves us so much that He sent His Only Son to become man, so He could teach us how we can, once again, be united with Him in Heaven, because He wants us to always be happy to be with Him.

I also believe and know that the Jewish leaders rejected the “one God” who was the Anointed One, “I AM”, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Jesus also prophesied that the same group who rejected Him and killed Him and would seek to “seize on his inheritance”. John also saw in vision that Satan would be allowed to have “power given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.” (Revelation 13:7)

Those who fail to recognize God are the ones that don’t understand Him in the first place. The Jews thought they were living in God’s favor by following all of their laws to the letter, while thumping their chests for being the Chosen People, and the only ones that were really ‘enlightened’, but they were the ones that were blinded by their own sins of pride and avarice. Because, when they were looking in the face of Jesus, they still couldn’t see that He was their own Messiah, that they had been waiting for, to come and save them from their sins. They didn’t recognize Him because they really didn’t understand anything about Who God really is, or what the Messiah was coming to do.

They were too busy mechanically following their laws and ordinances, and making outward signs of ‘faith’ to appear to be holy to others, but they didn’t really understand, or even believe in any of it. They did it all for personal gain and prestige. They loved wielding their personal power over others, especially the poor and the gentiles that they looked down on as inferiors. They fully enjoyed all of the wealth and honors that were showered on them because of their lofty positions. They really didn’t care about God at all.

Satan has great power over all the earth. All we have to do is look around and see all the evil in this world, that all comes from him, but he knows his time is limited. He’ll never stop spreading his lies to try to deceive men into following the wrong path. The wrong path always leads to hell. The greatest suffering in hell won’t be from the flames, or any other pain, but from the anguish of being separated from God, forever.

So that would mean that just as Jesus taught in Matthew 21:43 that the kingdom of God would be taken from those who sought to “seize on his inheritance”, any attempt to not keep Christ as the “stone which the builders rejected” and who is the “head of the corner”, the Corner Stone, the Rock of salvation, is moving Jesus aside and focusing on something else besides Him.

That passage refers to the Jews who forfeited the Promise by rejecting Jesus, so it was given to the Gentiles, instead.

Jesus taught that He and His Father were one, but He prayed to His Father because that was the right thing for Him to do. It is also the right thing for us to do, as He taught very plainly and clearly.

Do you think Catholics don’t pray to God?

Peace and best wishes to you and all readers.

The same to you, Parker.

 

[ParkerD]

That is the impression I also get from Parker?

Nicea325,

This would mean that neither of you read post numbers 193 or 194 or 195 on this thread. If you read them, you will have the answer to what he posed as the supposition, and the answer is “no”.

 

[Nicea325]

Nicea325,

This would mean that neither of you read post numbers 193 or 194 or 195 on this thread. If you read them, you will have the answer to what he posed as the supposition, and the answer is “no”.

:ehh:

 

[sallybutler]

While I get that LDS prophets talk to God (most of us on this forum also talk to God), I was wondering how God talks back to them. My assumption is that a prophet has a more literal relationship with God then most of the rest of us. This comes from reading too many of the various Biblical stories about the prophets. While none of them saw the face of God (that would bring death, according to the various accounts), God spoke very clearly using sound and speech. Sometimes He was a burning bush, other times He used animals. Often He sent His angels.

So, how does God speak to the current LDS prophet. Is is with a physical voice, thru an angel like in the OT or is it thru affirmation from the other leaders of the LDS church. Do the other leaders of the church ever overrule what the prophet says was God’s instructions for the LDS church?

 

[TexanKnight]

While I get that LDS prophets talk to God (most of us on this forum also talk to God), I was wondering how God talks back to them. My assumption is that a prophet has a more literal relationship with God then most of the rest of us. This comes from reading too many of the various Biblical stories about the prophets. While none of them saw the face of God (that would bring death, according to the various accounts), God spoke very clearly using sound and speech. Sometimes He was a burning bush, other times He used animals. Often He sent His angels.

So, how does God speak to the current LDS prophet. Is is with a physical voice, thru an angel like in the OT or is it thru affirmation from the other leaders of the LDS church. Do the other leaders of the church ever overrule what the prophet says was God’s instructions for the LDS church?

One prophet stated that the prophets walks the halls of Church headquarters side by side chatting with Jesus.

 

[RebeccaJ]

One prophet stated that the prophets walks the halls of Church headquarters side by side chatting with Jesus.

Mormons do not believe Jesus is God, at the most a demi-God. Their claim is receiving direct communication from the God they call Father in heaven.

 

[ParkerD]

While I get that LDS prophets talk to God (most of us on this forum also talk to God), I was wondering how God talks back to them. My assumption is that a prophet has a more literal relationship with God then most of the rest of us. This comes from reading too many of the various Biblical stories about the prophets. While none of them saw the face of God (that would bring death, according to the various accounts), God spoke very clearly using sound and speech. Sometimes He was a burning bush, other times He used animals. Often He sent His angels.

So, how does God speak to the current LDS prophet. Is is with a physical voice, thru an angel like in the OT or is it thru affirmation from the other leaders of the LDS church. Do the other leaders of the church ever overrule what the prophet says was God’s instructions for the LDS church?

SallyButler,

Those are reasonable, pertinent questions.

The prophet Elijah spoke of a “still, small voice”, and that is the most common way modern-day prophets describe hearing the message of the Holy Ghost, who communicates God’s will for the members of the church to follow, just as the Holy Ghost guided Paul, Peter, and the other apostles. Most often except in the case of when there is a change indicating that the world is closer to the Second Coming of Christ and there is a step of readiness that is the “right time” for it to happen (such as the 1978 priesthood revelation), then the prophet is reiterating truths that are taught in the Bible, but he emphasizes those particular truths that will help the members at that particular point in time, and this strengthens their resolve to live by those truths.

The counselors in the “First Presidency” of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, do have differences in perspective because of their different backgrounds. They help the prophet by providing counsel to him, and each of them seeks the inspiration and guidance of the Holy Ghost as they provide their insights in a council setting when they meet together several times each week. When they reach a unanimous decision if there is a decision that needs to be made, then after their unanimous vote the decision is carried out.

That “unanimous” vote does act as a great assurance to the members that because of fifteen different perspectives and the leaders prayerfully counseling together, decisions are thoroughly considered and the Holy Ghost confirms to them when they have received the perspectives that needed to be brought into the decision-making process.

 

[RebeccaJ]

ParkeD, Read up on the conflicts between Brigham Young and Orson Pratt. In the end, it comes down to what the pres. of your church dictates. It is also what your lesson manuals teach.

 

[ParkerD]

ParkeD, Read up on the conflicts between Brigham Young and Orson Pratt. In the end, it comes down to what the pres. of your church dictates. It is also what your lesson manuals teach.

RebeccaJ,

From the outside looking in, one only looks at lesson manuals and history that supports one’s point of view.

I have personally heard and seen televised interviews with members of the Quorum of Twelve Apostles where they were very clear that they have different perspectives on many matters that come up for discussion, and that the prophet listens to their perspectives and wants them to share their insights. They may deliberate for weeks or months on an issue that involves a complex decision, while they gather information and share perspectives and insights.

Those outside of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and reading the Bible, probably think of the Holy Ghost as “dictating” the will of the Lord. Those within The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints understand that God wants leaders to counsel together, and doesn’t push them all in a direction by “dictating” His will. There is great wisdom in being able to counsel together.

You mentioned Brigham Young, and it is possible that he had a weakness with regard to seeking the counsel of the apostles before making decisions, as you noted that he and Orson Pratt stongly differed on some items.

But this is 2012, not 1850, and there is such a thing as progress for a group and for individuals as the world gets ready for the Second Coming of Christ.

Leaders and prophets can be raised up by God who are imperfect but have unique gifts and talents that the Lord can use for His purposes. That doesn’t make them perfect. But He will bring about His perfect work, nonetheless, and either we will be able to learn from the process, or we won’t–it’s our choice.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I don’t believe what your lesson manuals teach either.