Do Martyr's killed in a state of Mortal Sin still go to Heaven?

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humanavitae

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From what I understand…
In our litury and faith, when we refer to someone as a “martyr” …it means that they died (defending the truth, or as part of revealing the truth as is the case with the “holy innocent”) and are now saints…i.e. they will goto heaven (probably purgatory first, but nonetheless, eventually heaven). Anytime our CCC or liturgy refers to Martyr’s…it is always “assumed” or written in a context to infer/imply that they are in heaven.

so…My question is this…if ALL martyr’s are in heaven…
does that mean it doesn’t matter what state their soul was in before they were martyr’d??? What is the official catholic teaching on this matter?

Let me give a concrete example…lets say, a Catholic man, perhaps devout at some point, became lazy for a few months and stopped going to church…and then, some terrorist, captured him and at gun-point, asked him if he believed in God…and the man, probably knowing that he would be shot if he told him the truth, said “YES, I believe in Jesus Christ”, and then he was murdered.

so…is he a Martyr? If so, that means he goes to heaven…without confession, right?

Now…to muddy the water a little bit…Is intent relevant in this situation? what if the man didn’t reflect on his state of mortal sin? what if he didn’t think about his love for God? what if he was not thinking about sorrow for his sins and was not actively thinking about how he wished he could goto confession? Basically, what if he said “YES” out of Pride or Anger, or habit? does that still merit Heaven?

I know this is a hypothetical question, but I am looking for a real answer. what exactly is church teaching on Martyr’s?
 
Suppose that the person is a true martyr in the interior sense of the word. He has not merely suffered death because he is a Christian, but he knowingly chose, with full knowledge and full consent, to accept death rather than commit a single mortal sin or rather than give up the Faith.

Suppose this person was not in a state of grace, due to actual mortal sin, prior to his interior act of martyrdom.

In my opinion, by his interior act of will and intellect, he has thereby implicitly repented of all his past sins with perfect contrition, and is restored to the state of grace, and he dies saved.

See my articles on mystical baptism and implicit repentence.
catholicplanet.com/RCC/index.htm
 
If you die in the state of unrepented mortal sin, you go to hell. There is no way around it.

Like Ron Conte said, the act of martyrdom could serve as an act of perfect contrition for the man, in which case he would not go to hell.
 
Luke_K said:
If you die in the state of unrepented mortal sin, you go to hell. There is no way around it.

Like Ron Conte said, the act of martyrdom could serve as an act of perfect contrition for the man, in which case he would not go to hell.
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I don’t think it’s as black and white as that.
Jesus said to St Faustina, ‘Write that when they say this Chaplet in the presence of the dying, I will stand between My Father and the dying person, not as the just judge but as the merciful Saviour’.
 
I would say that if a person were to die for his faith, or love of God, that there exists a very strong relationship between that person and God. Then, it follows that the person is not in the state of mortal sin, because mortal sin is a state where there is no relationship to God. It is logically inconsistent to be both in the state of mortal sin and to give up your life for God.
 
humanavitae said:
From what I understand…
In our litury and faith, when we refer to someone as a “martyr” …it means that they died (defending the truth, or as part of revealing the truth as is the case with the “holy innocent”) and are now saints…i.e. they will goto heaven (probably purgatory first, but nonetheless, eventually heaven). Anytime our CCC or liturgy refers to Martyr’s…it is always “assumed” or written in a context to infer/imply that they are in heaven.

so…My question is this…if ALL martyr’s are in heaven…
does that mean it doesn’t matter what state their soul was in before they were martyr’d??? What is the official catholic teaching on this matter?

Let me give a concrete example…lets say, a Catholic man, perhaps devout at some point, became lazy for a few months and stopped going to church…and then, some terrorist, captured him and at gun-point, asked him if he believed in God…and the man, probably knowing that he would be shot if he told him the truth, said “YES, I believe in Jesus Christ”, and then he was murdered.

so…is he a Martyr? If so, that means he goes to heaven…without confession, right?

Now…to muddy the water a little bit…Is intent relevant in this situation? what if the man didn’t reflect on his state of mortal sin? what if he didn’t think about his love for God? what if he was not thinking about sorrow for his sins and was not actively thinking about how he wished he could goto confession? Basically, what if he said “YES” out of Pride or Anger, or habit? does that still merit Heaven?

I know this is a hypothetical question, but I am looking for a real answer. what exactly is church teaching on Martyr’s?
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Well this is an excellent question. I do not know what the church teaches on martyrdom. I would suggest asking a priest, archbishop, or reading the Catechism for answers.

Now, in this situation you presented, I believe that in his moment of dying, he was relieved of his sin. Now let me explain. By dying for God, he has shown that he is unafraid to sacrifice his life by proclaiming his belief in God. In my personal opinion, that is warrant enough to be forgiven of sin.
 
MatthewBerkeley said:
I don’t think it’s as black and white as that.
Jesus said to St Faustina, ‘Write that when they say this Chaplet in the presence of the dying, I will stand between My Father and the dying person, not as the just judge but as the merciful Saviour’.
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I agree that Jesus’ mercy is fathomless, but he also said that anyone who sins against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, and one of those sins is final impenitence.
 
Luke_K said:
I agree that Jesus’ mercy is fathomless, but he also said that anyone who sins against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, and one of those sins is final impenitence.
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If a person is in a state of mortal sin and they die before getting to Confession but a prior act of perfect contrition had been made their sins are forgiven and they would be saved.
To me an act of martyrdom is the ultimate act of perfect contrition.
 
from the Catholic Encyclopedia:
Yet, it was only by degrees, in the course of the first age of the Church, that the term martyr came to be exclusively applied to those who had died for the faith. The grandsons of St. Jude, for example, on their escape from the peril they underwent when cited before Domitian were afterwards regarded as martyrs (Euseb., “Hist. eccl.”, III, xx, xxxii). The famous confessors of Lyons, who endured so bravely awful tortures for their belief, were looked upon by their fellow-Christians as martyrs, but they themselves declined this title as of right belonging only to those who had actually died: “They are already martyrs whom Christ has deemed worthy to be taken up in their confession, having sealed their testimony by their departure; but we are confessors mean and lowly” (Euseb., qp. cit., V, ii). This distinction between martyrs and confessors is thus traceable to the latter part of the second century: those only were martyrs who had suffered the extreme penalty, whereas the title of confessors was given to Christians who had shown their willingness to die for their belief, by bravely enduring imprisonment or torture, but were not put to death.
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I would have to say that anyone who dies professing the Faith is a martyr so the man in your example, even if he had been neglecting his religious duties would be a martyr.

Sometimes the term gets applied oddly. Thomas Becket (pre-Congregation) is considered but one he wasn’t killed for the Faith but for defending the rights of the Church against encroachments by King Henry II.

Otoh, the Congregation refuses to designate Servant of God Archbishop Oscar Romero a martyr even though he was assassinated while celebrating Mass. What the hey – he knows & God knows he’s a martyr.
 
This is an interesting question indeed.

I’d agree with several of the other posters, that dying for God or for his faith has purified him from Hell.

But how about this, what if a “catholic” woman has an abortion, viewing it as perfectly okay in the eyes of God, and then is kidnapped by a crazy terrorist who says “do you believe in God and if you say yes I will shoot you”, she says “yes” because she beleives in God.

Does she go to hell?

Because goodness knows there are a few pro-abortion “catholics” out there.
 
Guys.

Martyrdom has the same effect as does baptism.

Think on this.

Paul
 
thistle said:
To me an act of martyrdom is the ultimate act of perfect contrition.
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Agreed. The Church does teach that those who die in a state of perfect contrition, even with unconfessed mortal sins, goes to heaven. What could be a more perfect expression of perfect and complete love for God than to give your life for his sake? Did not Christ even say the greatest act a man can do for a friend is to die for him?
 
Oscar Romeo?

I need to read up on him.

The bible states that the martyr’s will be crying out for vengenge even while they are in the beatific vision.

All in the beatific vision, can hear their cries until Christ comes again?

Sounds heavenly!
 
PaulAndrew83 said:
Martyrdom has the same effect as does baptism.
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If someone is unbaptized and they die as a true martyr, by a knowing choice to give up their life rather for the Faith, then they receive a baptism of blood.

However, if someone is baptized already, and they die a martyr, it is certainly not the same effect as baptism. A person can only receive baptism once. And this is why the above discussion is focusing on perfect contrition. If a person is baptized, but later falls into actual mortal sin, he needs either imperfect contrition and confession, or perfect contrition, to be forgiven. But if he dies a martyr without these, he may be forgiven by a type of implicit perfect contrition. This last point is speculative, but is in accord with the idea of a baptism by implicit desire.
 
This is an interesting question.

Lets get back to basics:
  1. The normal way for one to die in a state of grace is to go to confession and confess all (known) mortal sins.
  2. Perfect contrition is the way to get around #1. However, how do we know we have perfect contrition? Then we are back to #1 (just to be 100% sure).
  3. I believe God can do things outside of the sacraments, i.e. he can decide to let you into heaven (with a possible stop in purgatory) with mortal sin on your soul. My guess is that this is done on a case-by-case basis.
I would say this is no different than a person who gets killed in a car accident on their way to confession. If a person has made a good faith commitment to the sacraments, and is trying their best and happens to be killed (and in this case martyred) then I think that will be taken into considertion.
 
ComputerGeek25 said:
This is an interesting question.

Lets get back to basics:
  1. The normal way for one to die in a state of grace is to go to confession and confess all (known) mortal sins.
  2. Perfect contrition is the way to get around #1. However, how do we know we have perfect contrition? Then we are back to #1 (just to be 100% sure).
  3. I believe God can do things outside of the sacraments, i.e. he can decide to let you into heaven (with a possible stop in purgatory) with mortal sin on your soul. My guess is that this is done on a case-by-case basis.
I would say this is no different than a person who gets killed in a car accident on their way to confession. If a person has made a good faith commitment to the sacraments, and is trying their best and happens to be killed (and in this case martyred) then I think that will be taken into considertion.
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I like the above answer the most…because it does NOT give someone a “free ticket” to heaven, just because they died as a “martyr”. This is especially important when one takes time to consider people who call themselves Christians, yet are pro-abortion, pro-contraception, etc EVEN after being told countless times that they are wrong and living in mortal sin. It also accounts for people who died as a “martyr” not so much because of their filial love for God, but for the showy, prideful, macho reasons, and/or impulsive defiance at the person holding them at gunpoint. I would say that in these cases, perhaps we can still call them “martyr’s”, but would argue that we cannot force our will onto God’s and proclaim that they are heaven bound. I think there actions and individual cases will be considered on a case-by-case basis, but the church can not declare them SAINTS, just because they died as a martyr.

Therefore…I would make the case that…Not all Martyr’s (being anyone who died defending the catholic faith) are automatically awarded Heaven because of their actions.
I think there is a common semantic mis-conception out there that all Martyr’s are in heaven…and this may not be the case at all. Only Canonized Martyr’s are Saints, and they are the only we should look up to and pray for intercession, not just anyone in history who died being a martyr.
 
vera_dicere said:
This is an interesting question indeed.

I’d agree with several of the other posters, that dying for God or for his faith has purified him from Hell.

But how about this, what if a “catholic” woman has an abortion, viewing it as perfectly okay in the eyes of God, and then is kidnapped by a crazy terrorist who says “do you believe in God and if you say yes I will shoot you”, she says “yes” because she beleives in God.

Does she go to hell?

Because goodness knows there are a few pro-abortion “catholics” out there.
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I apologize if this has already been covered.

In order for one to commit a mortal sin, three conditions must be met:

(1) The offense must be grave (abortion, as murder, is just about as grave as an offense can be);
(2) The person committing the grave offense must be AWARE that it is a grave offense; and,
(3) The person committing the grave offense must do so with FULL CONSENT.

If the woman has the abortion she obviously meets criterion 1, but whether she meets either or both of the other criteria is between herself and God.

So, she may go to hell, or to purgatory, or may actually go to Heaven - not taking into consideration that she is grabbed by someone with a gun who threatens to shoot her if she says “yes” to the question of believing in God.

Of course, this is kind of separate from the topic of this thread (which, BTW, I find extremely fascinating). I would wonder why any Catholic would deny that they are aware that abortion is a grave offense, but then I see websites such as “Catholics for Choice” whose members evidently believe they can change Truth by popular opinion and force the Catholic Church to agree that abortion on demand is OK. Of course the Church will NEVER change its views on abortion. Its views are Truth and can’t be changed. And that is as it should be.

So, I guess it depends on the circumstances under which the abortion took place. If the scenario is changed a bit and the woman meets all three criteria for a sin to be mortal, but fully intends to confess it via the Sacrament of Reconciliation but is grabbed by someone with a gun who puts it to her head, asks her if she believes in God, she says “yes” and is shot before she can make her confession - in this case I believe her sin, no matter how grievous, is forgiven.
 
humanavitae said:
I like the above answer the most…because it does NOT give someone a “free ticket” to heaven, just because they died as a “martyr”. This is especially important when one takes time to consider people who call themselves Christians, yet are pro-abortion, pro-contraception, etc EVEN after being told countless times that they are wrong and living in mortal sin. It also accounts for people who died as a “martyr” not so much because of their filial love for God, but for the showy, prideful, macho reasons, and/or impulsive defiance at the person holding them at gunpoint. I would say that in these cases, perhaps we can still call them “martyr’s”, but would argue that we cannot force our will onto God’s and proclaim that they are heaven bound. I think there actions and individual cases will be considered on a case-by-case basis, but the church can not declare them SAINTS, just because they died as a martyr.

Therefore…I would make the case that…Not all Martyr’s (being anyone who died defending the catholic faith) are automatically awarded Heaven because of their actions.
I think there is a common semantic mis-conception out there that all Martyr’s are in heaven…and this may not be the case at all. Only Canonized Martyr’s are Saints, and they are the only we should look up to and pray for intercession, not just anyone in history who died being a martyr.
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I agree with most of what you have said. We don’t really know if a person who appears to be a martyr really is - only God knows what is in our hearts, more than we know ourselves. But I would take issue with your last statement. Maybe I’m not reading it the way you intended, but anyone who is martyred (with a pure soul) is a Saint, whether or not they are canonized by the Church. Let’s say I have a soul chock-full of sins but I go to Confession and complete the penance which has been given to me, and while walking to my car in the church parking lot I am kidnapped by a lunatic who drives me out to the desert in the middle of nowhere, asks me if I believe Christ is my Saviour and tells me that if I answer “yes” I will be shot in the head.

Remember, I have just completed Confession. I answer “yes” and am shot and killed. Do I go to Heaven? Absolutely. And I go as a martyr. Even if the Church never finds out, even if my body is never discovered, even if I am never canonized, it makes no difference. I am still a martyr and my soul has been cleansed by absolution and I am a Saint.

Also I would say that we can pray to anyone for intercession, including people like my parents, who both passed on after making their final Confessions. I question whether we can only pray to canonized Saints. I realize that once a Saint is canonized (which is an infallible procedure) we are all absolutely sure they are in Heaven and we should pray to them for intercession. We know for a fact they are in Heaven, whereas there is a possibility that my parents are in Purgatory (which actually doesn’t mean I can’t pray to them for intercession) or maybe even in hell (although I doubt that). If we can ask people on earth to pray for us I don’t see why we can’t ask people in Heaven or in Purgatory to pray for us, also, even if they haven’t been canonized.

I would like to add one more thought. A non-canonized Saint is still in Heaven and I believe one of the criteria for canonization is whether a miracle can be attributed to that Saint. I just read about someone who has evidently been cured of an incurable cancer after praying to a former pope (I’m sorry, I can’t remember the reference but it is a reliable one - not one that has stories about a burned potato chip showing the image of the Virgin Mary). The story is now being investigated by the Church. If it turns out to be true, then the procedure for canonization goes forward. But the person who prayed to the former pope was not praying to a canonized Saint. This is certainly an acceptable thing to do and is accepted by the Church - if that person had not prayed to the former pope, an uncanonized Saint, the miracle attributed to that Saint would not have occurred.

So we are allowed (and probably encouraged) to pray to anyone who we believe is in Heaven (and perhaps even Purgatory). They don’t have to be canonized.
 
humanavitae said:
I like the above answer the most…because it does NOT give someone a “free ticket” to heaven, just because they died as a “martyr”.
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Hmmm. Well now. That’s interesting. So what planet are you from? Its its Earth, I think you need to rethink this ridiculous statement. Sorry, its just so bad, I don’t have any other words.
 
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