Do miraculous healings happen today?

[Telstar]

Blue Horizon;12993170:

And perhaps miracles are not direct interventions at all but rare potentialities of human nature itself. Such souls who respond to God’s grace and work miracles we call Saints, those who do the reverse are possessed or demons.

I would have to disagree with your thinking that miracles are not direct interventions from God. They most certainly are.

While this view certainly isn’t the common explanation I cannot find anything in the Catechism about miracles that it would contradict.

Apart from your natural enough assumption (that Catholics can have only one view on the nature of miracles) why would you be opposed to this explanation? It seems to better explain miraculous phenomena than the traditional explanation.

It’s a contradiction of Catholic belief because it denies the power and direct participation of God in all miraculous events, and views them as an “accident of human nature”. Miracles by definition are supernatural, not accidents that are simply explained as a random occurrence of something found in human nature.miracle: noun

1. an effect or extraordinary event in the physical world that surpasses all known human or natural powers and is ascribed to a supernatural cause.
2. such an effect or event manifesting or considered as a work of God.
3. a wonder; marvel.

For example, its seems that the shrines and holy men of other religions are similarly known for miracles, incorrupt bodies etc. And also to have their witches, demons and possessed also.

The Church recognizes that some truths about God can exist in other faiths, even though imperfectly. He can also perform His works in those other religions, if it’s His will to do so. However, it is always God that causes all actual miracles to happen. But, not all events that are ‘claimed’ to be miracles, really are miraculous. For example, incorrupt bodies are not necessarily signs of the miraculous. They may just be natural occurrences, or due to some type of chemical reaction caused by man.

Then there are totally inexplicable miracles that seem to have no religious message whatsoever (eg our contributor below whose hand miraculously healed itself).

These things suggest the phenomena are a rare potentiality or “talent” of human nature itself. Some have it and some don’t.

If the story about the healing of the burned hand is true (I’m not suggesting that it isn’t), then I still have to assume that there was some kind of Divine intervention that happened, even if that person seems to be unaware of what might have caused it. Either they, or someone else, must have made a powerful appeal to God for help. Miracles like that don’t just happen for no apparent reason.

It is “accessed” only by those with deep devotional powers perhaps. Those devoted wholly to God … or those to evil.

God is normally accessed through our devotional prayers. But, we can also access God even if our prayers only come from deep within the soul, and the person is not fully conscious of that prayer. The Holy Spirit knows what we need and can put our deepest desires into action for us. As St. Paul says to the Romans in chapter 8, “[26] Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmity. For we know not what we should pray for as we ought; but the Spirit himself asketh for us with unspeakable groanings.” Whether that person realized it at the time or not, they were given a great gift by God.

St. Thomas Aquinas says in the Summa:"True miracles cannot be wrought save by the power of God, because God works them for man’s benefit, and this in two ways: in one way for the confirmation of truth declared, in another way in proof of a person’s holiness, which God desires to propose as an example of virtue. On the first way miracles can be wrought by any one who preaches the true faith and calls upon Christ’s name, as even the wicked do sometimes. On this way even the wicked can work miracles. Hence Jerome commenting on Matthew 7:22, “Have not we prophesied in Thy name?” says: “Sometimes prophesying, the working of miracles, and the casting out of demons are accorded not to the merit of those who do these things, but to the invoking of Christ’s name, that men may honor God, by invoking Whom such great miracles are wrought.” "

Those who do not know of God can still be devoted to goodness itself, just as they can be to evil itself without even knowing of Satan.

Very true. God said in the OT that He would write His laws in our hearts. The healing of the burned hand might be a good example of the former. But, the miracle still comes by the power of God, and not by any sort of ‘accident of human nature’.

Or maybe these powers are accessed by some other “mechanism” such as the Jhana methods of meditation described by ancient Buddist texts. Prayer and fasting is often involved.

See what I said before about other religions.

Who really knows the mechanism, I am not sure the Church has ever pronounced or felt the need to pronounce on such a topic. Perhaps I am mistaken and someone has a clear Magisterial teaching on this topic.

The Church has always taught us about miracles. I’m not sure if it’s mentioned in the Catechism or not, but miracles are a very important part of Sacred Tradition. Jesus performed miracles that served to prove that He was who He said He was. The OT and NT are full of all kinds of miracles. If you do a search for ‘miracles’ on the New Advent website, you’ll find a lot of good information.

 

[Blue_Horizon]

It’s a contradiction of Catholic belief because it denies the power and direct participation of God in all miraculous events, and views them as an “accident of human nature”. Miracles by definition are supernatural, not accidents that are simply explained as a random occurrence of something found in human nature.miracle: noun

1. an effect or extraordinary event in the physical world that surpasses all known human or natural powers and is ascribed to a supernatural cause.
2. such an effect or event manifesting or considered as a work of God.
3. a wonder; marvel.

The Church recognizes that some truths about God can exist in other faiths, even though imperfectly. He can also perform His works in those other religions, if it’s His will to do so. However, it is always God that causes all actual miracles to happen. But, not all events that are ‘claimed’ to be miracles, really are miraculous. For example, incorrupt bodies are not necessarily signs of the miraculous. They may just be natural occurrences, or due to some type of chemical reaction caused by man.

If the story about the healing of the burned hand is true (I’m not suggesting that it isn’t), then I still have to assume that there was some kind of Divine intervention that happened, even if that person seems to be unaware of what might have caused it. Either they, or someone else, must have made a powerful appeal to God for help. Miracles like that don’t just happen for no apparent reason.

God is normally accessed through our devotional prayers. But, we can also access God even if our prayers only come from deep within the soul, and the person is not fully conscious of that prayer. The Holy Spirit knows what we need and can put our deepest desires into action for us. As St. Paul says to the Romans in chapter 8, “[26] Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmity. For we know not what we should pray for as we ought; but the Spirit himself asketh for us with unspeakable groanings.” Whether that person realized it at the time or not, they were given a great gift by God.

St. Thomas Aquinas says in the Summa:"True miracles cannot be wrought save by the power of God, because God works them for man’s benefit, and this in two ways: in one way for the confirmation of truth declared, in another way in proof of a person’s holiness, which God desires to propose as an example of virtue. On the first way miracles can be wrought by any one who preaches the true faith and calls upon Christ’s name, as even the wicked do sometimes. On this way even the wicked can work miracles. Hence Jerome commenting on Matthew 7:22, “Have not we prophesied in Thy name?” says: “Sometimes prophesying, the working of miracles, and the casting out of demons are accorded not to the merit of those who do these things, but to the invoking of Christ’s name, that men may honor God, by invoking Whom such great miracles are wrought.” "

Very true. God said in the OT that He would write His laws in our hearts. The healing of the burned hand might be a good example of the former. But, the miracle still comes by the power of God, and not by any sort of ‘accident of human nature’.

See what I said before about other religions.

The Church has always taught us about miracles. I’m not sure if it’s mentioned in the Catechism or not, but miracles are a very important part of Sacred Tradition. Jesus performed miracles that served to prove that He was who He said He was. The OT and NT are full of all kinds of miracles. If you do a search for ‘miracles’ on the New Advent website, you’ll find a lot of good information.

Telstar I appreciate your comments, they are fully in accord with the popular pious understanding of miracles today which I full understand thanks.

However you’ve been unable to source for me Magisterial teaching on the mechanics of miracles which would agree with your further personal view that no other explanation is acceptable for Catholics.

This is currently my finding also.
Perhaps other readers can suggest clear Magisterial teaching sources in this area.

This, in my reading, is an area of less than fully developed mystical theology.
This is the case in many other areas of allegedly clear Church Teaching that many of us pious Catholics assume are closed but in fact they are not.
For example, that Mary did not die is open for debate (and in fact the Popes hold the other side) and also the Catholic principles behind the Death Penalty do not appear to be an open and shut case.

In which case I would be interested in comments from other Catholic readers on my views of the “mechanics” of miracles - other than those that unnecessarily limit discussion by unproven assumptions of what the Church clearly teaches and holds us to. Thanks.

BTW I am not obsessed with the terminology, as I think is the case with most readers on this topic. If we simply define “miracle” as “that which only God can do” then of course discussion is limited.
But if we use the phrase “completely inexplicable event” or “paranormal phenomenon” I think that is really what people are talking about here.

 

[Abu]

We have the doctor-attested miracle cures at Lourdes, the attested miracle of the Sun at Fatima and other attested cases of miracles such as the recurring liquefaction (becoming liquid) of the blood of St Januarius (Gennaro) which is an extraordinary miracle of the Church that has been occurring up to 18 times each year for the past 600 years.
miraclesofthechurch.com/2010/10/blood-miracle-of-st-januarius-gennaro.html

 

[Faith1960]

We have the doctor-attested miracle cures at Lourdes, the attested miracle of the Sun at Fatima and other attested cases of miracles such as the recurring liquefaction (becoming liquid) of the blood of St Januarius (Gennaro) which is an extraordinary miracle of the Church that has been occurring up to 18 times each year for the past 600 years.
miraclesofthechurch.com/2010/10/blood-miracle-of-st-januarius-gennaro.html

So why no cures of Alzheimer’s, Downs, amputees etc.?

 

[Faith1960]

​

We have the doctor-attested miracle cures at Lourdes, the attested miracle of the Sun at Fatima and other attested cases of miracles such as the recurring liDrquefaction (becoming liquid) of the blood of St Januarius (Gennaro) which is an extraordinary miracle of the Church that has been occurring up to 18 times each year for the past 600 years.
miraclesofthechurch.com/2010/10/blood-miracle-of-st-januarius-gennaro.html

Has this been rigorously tested by scientists?

 

[Faith1960]

​

Has this been rigorously tested by scientists?

Never mind, I read that it’s testing has been limited.

 

[Abu]

As Avelino deAlmeida, the chief editor of “O Seculo,” the large “liberal” anticlerical and masonic daily of Lisbon, writes:
‘Before the dazzled eyes of the people, whose attitude transported us to biblical times, and who, dumb-founded, heads uncovered, contemplated the blue of the sky, the sun trembled, it mad estrange and abrupt movements, outside of all cosmic laws, “the sun danced”, according to the typical expression of the peasants…(2)’

Attacked violently by all the anticlerical press, Avelino de Almeida renewed his testimony, fifteen days later, in his review, l “Ilustra‡ao Portuguesa”. This time he illustrated his account with a dozen photographs of the huge ecstatic crowd, and repeated as a refrain throughout his article: “I saw…I saw…I saw.” And he concluded fortuitously: "Miracle, as the people shouted? Natural phenomenon, as the experts say? For the moment, that does not concern me, I am only saying what I saw… The rest is a matter for Science and the Church.” (3) [My emphasis].
Note:
2) O Seculo of October 15, 1917.
3) Article of October 29, 1917.
See: THE DANCE OF THE SUN at: catholicvoice.co.uk/fatima1/ch1-10.htm

As a fact of life, miracles are part of reason based on observation.

Throughout much of his adult life Dr Alexis Carrel felt that Immanuel Kant had once and for all disposed of a rationally respectable belief in God, revelation, and – last but not least – miracles.

He went from being a skeptic of the visions and miracles reported at Lourdes to being a believer after experiencing a healing he could not explain. Alexis Carrel refused to discount a supernatural explanation and steadfastly reiterated his beliefs, For such an attitude toward Lourdes, Carrel was declared unwelcome in the medical establishment in free-thinking and anti-clerical Lyons. Their leaders had to eat humble pie upon Carrel’s return for a brief visit to France in 1912 with the halo of a Nobel Prize around his head. In a new edition by Real-View-Books, of *The Voyage to Lourdes *(1939) this realization is explained, with an introduction by Fr Stanley Jaki, winner of the Templeton Prize for 1987 for his work on science and religion, an honorary member of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences.
[ewtn.com/library/MARY/VOYLOUR.HTM]](http://www.ewtn.com/library/MARY/VOYLOUR.HTM])

 

[Blue_Horizon]

I would not personally include the “Dance of the Sun” (DOTS) as a clear miracle.

Miracles or other paranormal phenomena surely need to be objective in nature rather than possessing a subjective component for it to “work”.

That is, such phenomena should be “natural” in the sense they be observable independent of a person’s religion, beliefs or other personal dispositions.

This was not the case with the DOTS.
Newspapers and interviews at the time make it clear that there were non-believers who (much to their own consternation) saw … standing right next to believers (who desperately wanted to see) but did not see.

Clearly there was some sort of subjective psychological component involved in the DOTS.

Most pious Fatima books and accounts appear unbalanced as they omit even credible, balanced reports of the time that reported these contradictions amongst witnesses.

(Its interesting that the Seer’s themselves had their own testimony significantly edited and shaped by interviewing priests who could not accept some of their testimony about their Vision. e.g. in one of the first Visions the Lady appeared in ancient traditional local dress where her skirt only went down to her knees).

 

[mikekle]

So why no cures of Alzheimer’s, Downs, amputees etc.?

Good point, I cant think of any time one of these people have been healed, and there was no question it was a miracle…in fact, I cant recall ever hearing of an amputee being given their limb back (NEVER??) that is pretty strange imo. Seems like there would be at least one or two, but to have NONE?

 

[Faith1960]

Good point, I cant think of any time one of these people have been healed, and there was no question it was a miracle…in fact, I cant recall ever hearing of an amputee being given their limb back (NEVER??) that is pretty strange imo. Seems like there would be at least one or two, but to have NONE?

There is the miracle of Calanda but i’ve never heard of Downs or Alzheimers being cured.

 

[Faith1960]

There is the miracle of Calanda but i’ve never heard of Downs or Alzheimers being cured.

Anyone have any insights?

 

[Abu]

The Miracle of the Sun at Fatima
Appendix II
HYPOTHESES ON THE NATURE OF THE SOLAR MIRACLE
catholicvoice.co.uk/fatima1/ch1-10.htm
‘Thus after examining the question we can affirm – at least until solid witnesses to the contrary appear – that everybody present at the Cova da Iria, as well as Alburitel, could see the prodigious solar phenomenon.

‘At the end of his investigation Father de Marchi could write: “Up to the present we have not met a single person among the many we have questioned who has not confirmed the phenomenon.”14

‘In 1958, Father Richard noticed the same unanimity among all the witnesses he had encountered: “For them, there was no question. They could not even imagine anyone asking the question whether somebody had not seen anything.” The same goes for Alburitel. “Did everybody around you see it?” Canon Lourenço, who was nine years old in 1917, answered this question of Father Richard without hesitation: “I am absolutely sure that everybody saw it.”15

‘In 1960, John Haffert reached the same conclusion: all those who simply bothered to look saw the great solar sign.

‘In conclusion, it would be astonishing if it had been otherwise. On July 13 Our Lady had promised: “In October, I will work a miracle so that all may see and believe.” The most faithful Virgin kept Her promise.’ [My emphasis].
Notes:
(14) P. 198, (Orig.).
(15) La Reine aux Mains Jointes, p. 98-99.

 

[Blue_Horizon]

The Miracle of the Sun at Fatima
Appendix II
HYPOTHESES ON THE NATURE OF THE SOLAR MIRACLE
catholicvoice.co.uk/fatima1/ch1-10.htm
‘Thus after examining the question we can affirm – at least until solid witnesses to the contrary appear – that everybody present at the Cova da Iria, as well as Alburitel, could see the prodigious solar phenomenon.

‘At the end of his investigation Father de Marchi could write: “Up to the present we have not met a single person among the many we have questioned who has not confirmed the phenomenon.”14

‘In 1958, Father Richard noticed the same unanimity among all the witnesses he had encountered: “For them, there was no question. They could not even imagine anyone asking the question whether somebody had not seen anything.” The same goes for Alburitel. “Did everybody around you see it?” Canon Lourenço, who was nine years old in 1917, answered this question of Father Richard without hesitation: “I am absolutely sure that everybody saw it.”15

‘In 1960, John Haffert reached the same conclusion: all those who simply bothered to look saw the great solar sign.

‘In conclusion, it would be astonishing if it had been otherwise. On July 13 Our Lady had promised: “In October, I will work a miracle so that all may see and believe.” The most faithful Virgin kept Her promise.’ [My emphasis].
Notes:
(14) P. 198, (Orig.).
(15) La Reine aux Mains Jointes, p. 98-99.

Yes I believe Fr De Marchi was one of the “cherry picker” priests who “screened” the Seers making their reports fit for public consumption. (I will check on that though).

Just do a bit of research for yourself beyond the over-pious books.

 

[Blue_Horizon]

Here’s the quote that shows that less palatable reports wrt Fatima have rarely been made available to the average Catholic.

This one is about Mary with her knees showing. This report from two of the Seers wrt the very first vision was supressed. It was only released (from the archives of the Fatima Sanctuary) in the last 15 years or so. The following was written by Canon Formigao who interviewed them:

“*Jacinta declares that Our Lady’s dress goes down only to her knees. Our Lady can only appear dressed, obviously, in the most decent and modest way. The dress would have to come down to her feet. Any other way constitutes the most serious obstacle to the supernaturalism of the apparition and makes us think that it is a mystification prepared by the Spirit of Darkness. But how can we explain the belief of so many thousands of people, their living faith and burning piety, the modesty and the composure they show in all their acts, the silence and behavior of the crowd, the numerous and astonishing conversions caused by the events, the appearance of extraordinary signs in the sky and on the earth, verified by thousands of witnesses? How can we explain, I repeat, all these facts and conciliate them with divine providence and the laws that rule the supernatural world, above all after the establishment of Christianity, if the Demon is the cause of such events?" *

 

[Blue_Horizon]

Here we go.
Amongst others, Jaki Stanley (who researched and wrote “God and the Sun at Fátima” 1999) found credible reports from Catholics in the crowd who were unable to see any miracle of the sun at all.
amazon.com/God-sun-Fatima-Stanley-Jaki/dp/B0006R7UJ6

Stanley is apparently a Catholic Priest.

 

[Abu]

This University Study seems objective and the miracle is observed.

mrobsr.blogspot.com.au/2010/04/miracle-at-fatima.html
Letter from Joaquim Fernandes, Center for Transdisciplinary Study on Consciousness, University Fernando Pessoa, Porto, Portugal:
‘It’s a pity that the Portuguese language could not until now be used by the researchers and critics. In the Fatima case we found dozens of “essays” repeating “ad nauseam” third-hand reports full of errors, misinterpretations and exaggerations. As Martin noted and we agree. All these sold like solid and original research!

‘We verify the following new data:

‘The witnesses who reported physical sensations and psycophysiological effects were all within a frame of an area near the “contact spot” at Cova da Iria, which was some 70 metres wide by 100 metres long. We were able to select 100 first-hand witness reports and among these a lot of people who described the “solar” phenomenon were WITHIN that area. At the precise moment of the “solar object” fall – STRAIGHT DOWN TO THE HEIGHT OF A TREE – the cited witnesses on the spot noticed: a) intense and sudden heat; b) sudden drying of their clothes which were made very wet by the previous rain; c) a few reports of healing of people in the cited area.

‘The “solar phenomenon” was observed by independent witnesses NOT included in the crowd at Cova da Iria, but at four distant spots of the region, far enough, 15, 20 and 30 km away, not to know what was going on at that very moment at Cova da Iria. We have some reports which denied that was the Sun falling from the sky, but another body or object, since those people insisted that the Sun never came down!

‘The “halo hypothesis” proposed by Menzel perhaps could be evaluated by authorised witnesses among the crowd. Could it explain all the three kinds of effects cited above? Could a halo spin down and return up the same way showing different features in its dimensions? Where is the scientific literature which could verify these complex paths? I would very much like to get this information.

‘I guess we are all honest and sincere seeking the truth. But the truth can not be so simple and sure.

‘I advise that we are not UFO fanatics or ET militants. We are following strictly historical and scientific methods. We have recognised work here in Portugal and what we need is new ideas from foreign scientists and thinkers, not easy speculations constructed with distorted and manipulated data or biased interpretations based on Catholic dogmas and background.

‘I hope these remarks will contribute to a new perspective on these extraordinary events under specific sociological and cultural conditions from time to time.’

 

[Ignatius]

Does miraculous healing happen today?%between%

Yes, it does.

 

[Faith1960]

Here we go.
Amongst others, Jaki Stanley (who researched and wrote “God and the Sun at Fátima” 1999) found credible reports from Catholics in the crowd who were unable to see any miracle of the sun at all.
amazon.com/God-sun-Fatima-Stanley-Jaki/dp/B0006R7UJ6

Stanley is apparently a Catholic Priest.

I thought I’d once read that there were people there who disputed it.

 

[Blue_Horizon]

I thought I’d once read that there were people there who disputed it.

Yes the majority saw something, but significant numbers along-side them did not. Many Catholic “reporters” appear to have somehow discounted these “difficult” witness experiences.

Of course anti-Catholics would deny they had seen anything, that is to be expected.
Yet ardent Catholics wanted to see, yet some did not, even though standing next to agnostics who did.

What that means I do not know exactly.
But it doesn’t sound like a normal “miracle” to me.

As the wise riddle goes:
“What is the difference between fact and fiction?”

Answer:
“Only fiction has to make sense.”

 

[ericc]

Yes the majority saw something, but significant numbers along-side them did not. Many Catholic “reporters” appear to have somehow discounted these “difficult” witness experiences.

Of course anti-Catholics would deny they had seen anything, that is to be expected.
Yet ardent Catholics wanted to see, yet some did not, even though standing next to agnostics who did.

What that means I do not know exactly.
But it doesn’t sound like a normal “miracle” to me.

Miracles do not have SOPs do they? In Saul’s trip to Damascus, he saw the light but not his companions although they did heard the voice. So it is possible that who gets to witness/see/feel/hear a miracle is decided divinely. In fact, a selected group that witness a miracle whereas others in the group did not would indicate a superior power that can selectively attentioned the correct targets. For example, in Acts 2:4-8, each hearer hear in his own native language. But if everyone gets to see/hear the same thing, then critics may just attribute it to some natural phenomena.