Do modern Protestants know what they are protesting?

[GKC]

I know, I know.

Yep. And so it goes.

GKC

 

[JonNC]

=clem456;12346076]Some very fundamental Christian questions go un-answered.

Is Christ a person or a book?

A person.

Is Christ the head of a body, united to him, that really exists in time and space, or is Church only a concept?

The former.

Can Christ be the author of division?

Of course not, yet there gas been division since its founding at Pentecost, not because of Christ, but because of sinful men.

Is his presence and dominion continuous throughout history, or is Christ’s kingdom subject to breaks and ruptures?

Continuous.

Are the more than one Way, Truth, or Life?

Just one: by grace.

Before any words were written in the New Testament…
the Son of God, who exists from all eternity to all eternity… outside of time… came into human flesh… and took human nature.

He is revealed as a defenseless child entrusted to a human woman, who is the first bearer and proclaimer of The Word of God. This Word of God spoke words but is beyond words, “supra-literal” if you will. His first expression is in the silent relationship between Mother and Child.

Christ is a divine person, entrusted to human persons in his humanity, given to us so that we might LIVE and KNOW the Gospel as a person, through persons, and not merely through words on a page.

Check it out…before -a word- was written, -The Word- existed in His fullness as a person. That is what’s known as Tradition. Tradition is what exists between God and people, ongoing through time and space. Tradition is Him, it’s inseparable from Christ. If you don’t accept Tradition, you can’t possibly accept Christ, because he didn’t hatch out of a book.

Amen.

Jon

 

[FathersKnowBest]

And it takes pride to think that every other Christian simply chooses what to believe and then picks a church that conforms to those beliefs, and especially to confirm them in their sin. But oh humble you have truly submitted to God’s will.

Oh, I don’t think they’ve done so knowingly. It’s just a matter of human nature.

Have you read the Screwtape Letters? Check out Screwtape Letter #16.

And, for myself personally (since you seem to want to make this about me), I had to struggle mightily with some teachings of the Church, until I realized that I really wanted to hold on to my own sins.

We humans can rationalize and self-justify all the live-long day if we don’t adequately self-assess.

 

[FathersKnowBest]

I am asking: what is the correct number of Christian denominations in the world?

I use the estimation of tens of thousands.

If you don’t like this estimation, please tell me the correct number.

And cite your source.

And make sure it includes every single storefront church in every single small town in every country on the planet.

The whole question is a red herring, used when people don’t have a strong argument otherwise.

It’s as if not knowing the exact number means that there isn’t a large number of divisions.

But 30,000 isn’t that many.

If there are only 15 distinct beliefs, and if each of those beliefs can ONLY have 2 different positions, then there would be 32,768 different sets of beliefs!

 

[spina1953]

it seems to me that in the protestant belief system anyone can become a minster. I see adds all the time that one can become a minster in little as 30 days. I do know from what I have heard that many will go to a school of theology and when they graduate they can then be minster in whatever church they belong to. I do not know if that is true of all the denominations out there and I think that Lutherans and the Church of England Like Catholic’s have different way of ordaining. It is just a general thought.

 

[GKC]

The whole question is a red herring, used when people don’t have a strong argument otherwise.

It’s as if not knowing the exact number means that there isn’t a large number of divisions.

But 30,000 isn’t that many.

If there are only 15 distinct beliefs, and if each of those beliefs can ONLY have 2 different positions, then there would be 32,768 different sets of beliefs!

Tens of thousands wouldn’t surprise me, though I’d think a definition what what one was counting, generally agreed to, would be of use. But what the actual number might be, I have no idea. And neither does anyone else.

GKC

 

[steve_b]

I haven’t even said what my approach is.

Be that as it may, however, you said taken as a whole, the failure becomes diminishingly small. If history, universality, and Scripture are fallible (going on Scripture as only a fallible historical document that requires the infallible church to say it is infallible) sources for your knowledge of the infallibility of the church, would you say you have fallible certainty that the church is infallible, or something else?

I haven’t read all the posts, but I think I have the gist. Tell me if this explanation works for what’s being asked

#1

 

[spina1953]

Tens of thousands wouldn’t surprise me, though I’d think a definition what what one was counting, generally agreed to, would be of use. But what the actual number might be, I have no idea. And neither does anyone else.

GKC

Hi GKC: I agree. I do not think it really all that important since no one really knows the exact number of denominational churches out there. What one sees is more and more denominational churches starting up everywhere each with their own way of ministering to the people who go to their churches.

 

[GKC]

Hi GKC: I agree. I do not think it really all that important since no one really knows the exact number of denominational churches out there. What one sees is more and more denominational churches starting up everywhere each with their own way of ministering to the people who go to their churches.

Sounds like a reasonable position to me.

GKC

 

[FathersKnowBest]

Hi GKC: I agree. I do not think it really all that important since no one really knows the exact number of denominational churches out there.

I agree, and that’s the point. It doesn’t matter what the exact number of denominations is, and bringing it up is a red herring meant to distract.

What one sees is more and more denominational churches starting up everywhere each with their own way of ministering to the people who go to their churches.

Which pleases the heck out of (or is it into?) Screwtape and others like him.

 

[spina1953]

I agree, and that’s the point. It doesn’t matter what the exact number of denominations is, and bringing it up is a red herring meant to distract.

Which pleases the heck out of (or is it into?) Screwtape and others like him.

Hi FathersKNowBest: I have read the Screwtapes, thought it very good read! Point well taken about how many denominations is a read herring meant to distract.

 

[spina1953]

Sounds like a reasonable position to me.

GKC

Hi GKC: I did think it a reasonable position to me as why I said it. Anyway I do not how many denominations there are it really is not all that important to me since I( do not have the time to count every one of them.

 

[GKC]

Hi GKC: I did think it a reasonable position to me as why I said it. Anyway I do not how many denominations there are it really is not all that important to me since I( do not have the time to count every one of them.

I don’t either. I wish someone, qualified in sociological statistical analysis, would take a whack at it.

Not on tax money, though.

GKC

 

[Per_Crucem]

I don’t either. I wish someone, qualified in sociological statistical analysis, would take a whack at it.

Not on tax money, though.

GKC

There are far more goofy things that our tax money is being spent on. That would be an improvement.

 

[GKC]

There are far more goofy things that our tax money is being spent on. That would be an improvement.

Even so, not enough interest on my part to suggest increasing the deficit.

GKC

 

[spina1953]

I don’t either. I wish someone, qualified in sociological statistical analysis, would take a whack at it.

Not on tax money, though.

GKC

Hi GKC: I think that the money can be used to better purposes. BTW are we not taxed enough? The rich pay less and the middle class pay more, so think the rich can pay and take a whack at it.

 

[GKC]

Hi GKC: I think that the money can be used to better purposes. BTW are we not taxed enough? The rich pay less and the middle class pay more, so think the rich can pay and take a whack at it.

Anyone who wants to pony up is welcome to open his wallet.

No taxes.

GKC

 

[spina1953]

Anyone who wants to pony up is welcome to open his wallet.

No taxes.

GKC

I second it!

 

[PRmerger]

The whole question is a red herring, used when people don’t have a strong argument otherwise.

It’s as if not knowing the exact number means that there isn’t a large number of divisions.

But 30,000 isn’t that many.

If there are only 15 distinct beliefs, and if each of those beliefs can ONLY have 2 different positions, then there would be 32,768 different sets of beliefs!

Actually, I posted the math a long time ago, here.

Using just 17 distinct beliefs, the number is a whopping 131, 071.

So, tens of thousands is quite conservative. Quite.

Incidentally, just as so many bristle at the 30,000 denomination (or even the more nebulous “tens of thousands”), as if this number is just a figment of our imagination–something we like to bring up just to rankle folks–I bristle at their bristling. ***Stop objecting to the number, esp. if you don’t have a number yourself to refute our statistic.

---

It’s kind of like atheists saying, whenever we bring up Mao or Pol Pot, or other atheist regimes, “Oh, there the Christians go again, bringing up that ridiculous example of the millions killed by Mao.”

That they don’t like it ought not be a testament to its veracity.

 

[dronald]

Actually, I posted the math a long time ago, here.

Using just 17 distinct beliefs, the number is a whopping 131, 071.

So, tens of thousands is quite conservative. Quite.

Incidentally, just as so many bristle at the 30,000 denomination (or even the more nebulous “tens of thousands”), as if this number is just a figment of our imagination–something we like to bring up just to rankle folks–I bristle at their bristling. ***Stop objecting to the number, esp. if you don’t have a number yourself to refute our statistic.

---

It’s kind of like atheists saying, whenever we bring up Mao or Pol Pot, or other atheist regimes, “Oh, there the Christians go again, bringing up that ridiculous example of the millions killed by Mao.”

That they don’t like it ought not be a testament to its veracity.

Among Protestants I think the two big issues are what the Eucharist/Baptism mean. Besides that I don’t know what two “protestant” denominations are at each other’s necks over.

Excuse me if I open an underground Church in China and you want to add a +1 to denominations.