Do modern Protestants know what they are protesting?

[dronald]

This is why those of us within the Apostolic faith do not distinguish between the Word, whether by word of mouth, or in writing. We are bound to the commandment.

They are not “Roman” only, but these Sacred Traditions belong to all the Churches founded by Apostles. They are found in all 23 Rites of the Catholic Church , as well as the Eastern Churches.

Sacred Tradition is the lens through which we read and understand the Scriptures. It is the Teaching of the Apostles infallibly preserved in the Church by the Holy Spirit. It is the reason that we understand the Scriptures differently.

It is a world view, a lifestyle, referred to in the NT as “The Way”.

That you can find in the Liturgies! As well as in the Teaching of the Church.

This is a lie perpetrated to support the errant doctrine of Sola Scriptura. It denies the powerful Jesus portrayed in the book of Revelation that continues to care for and speak to His faithful. It denies the gifts of the Holy Spirit in the letter of the Corinthians, and is opposed to the teachings of the Fathers of the Church, and the Councils.

If this were true, then Christians today could not accept the word “Trinity”, or the canon of the New Testament.

Yes, many, but what is affected most by Sacred Tradition is how we understand what is written in the NT?

Can you explain what you mean by this statement? I think you are saying that Jesus does not speak to His people outside of the words of Scripture? There are no prophets, words of knowledge, or conciliar decisions that are Christ speaking to His Church outside the canon of Scripture?

All I’m asking for is something we know Jesus said that’s not found in any NT book. Something kept in oral Tradition and eventually written down later.

For example; we know Jesus said “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.” Because it’s in Matthew. Do you have any other sayings of Jesus that we know He said, not found in Scripture?

 

[PRmerger]

All I’m asking for is something we know Jesus said that’s not found in any NT book. Something kept in oral Tradition and eventually written down later.

For example; we know Jesus said “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.” Because it’s in Matthew. Do you have any other sayings of Jesus that we know He said, not found in Scripture?

We know that Jesus said that all public revelation will end with the death of the last apostle.

We know that Jesus said that the canon of the NT is closed.

We know that Jesus said that there are 27 books of the NT.

We know that Jesus declared there is One God, 3 Persons, and that the Son proceeds from the Father, being consubstantial with Him.

 

[dronald]

We know that Jesus said that all public revelation will end with the death of the last apostle.

We know that Jesus said that the canon of the NT is closed.

We know that Jesus said that there are 27 books of the NT.

So who was the first to declare that Jesus specifically mentioned that there would be 27 NT books? I didn’t know Catholics believed He specifically mentioned 27 books.

 

[clem456]

All I’m asking for is something we know Jesus said that’s not found in any NT book. Something kept in oral Tradition and eventually written down later.

For example; we know Jesus said “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.” Because it’s in Matthew. Do you have any other sayings of Jesus that we know He said, not found in Scripture?

Think about what you are saying.
You are asking for things Jesus said that are not found in any book.
Can you accept that fact that when Jesus lived and spoke, none of his words were written down? Or were there tape recorders and secretaries taking dictation?
To answer your question, **all of it **was kept in oral tradition and written down later. Before there was a New Testament, there was a Church. None of what Jesus did or said was found in Scripture, because the New Testament did not exist in written form yet.
The beatitudes were spoken by Jesus before they were written down, in fact decades passed before any of it was written down.
Before anything was written, there was a Person (Jesus), who entrusted himself to other persons (apostles, Church). Out of this living Tradition came the written word.
Can you accept that or do you have an alternative explanation of some kind?

 

[pablope]

Lutherans are not bound to the writings and opinions of Luther, and it is not fair to expect them to defend them.

Great site, thanks for the link.

Hi…Guan…well here is the Lutherano inconsistency…as much as i can recall…a lutheran poster provided a link to support that annointing of the sick is not a sacrament…luther’s own words…in the same link…luther also says confession is not a sacrament…then in another post…it was posted that the confessions dogmatically define only two…baptism and the eucharist… Then he says confession is a sacrament, yet the confessions they are bound to say confession is not…so are you dizzy yet?

 

[PRmerger]

So who was the first to declare that Jesus specifically mentioned that there would be 27 NT books?

I don’t know who was the first.

I didn’t know Catholics believed He specifically mentioned 27 books.

Catholics believe that the Catholic faith was WHOLE AND ENTIRE before a single word of the NT was ever put to writ.

Our faith comes from Christ. Not from a book.

As such, if we believe that there are 27 books in the NT (and we do. And so do you), then that means, implicitly, that this revelation comes from Christ.

Not from a book.

 

[dronald]

I don’t know who was the first.

Catholics believe that the Catholic faith was WHOLE AND ENTIRE before a single word of the NT was ever put to writ.

Our faith comes from Christ. Not from a book.

As such, if we believe that there are 27 books in the NT (and we do. And so do you), then that means, implicitly, that this revelation comes from Christ.

Not from a book.

Today I learned Christ said, “There will be 27 canonized books about me” according to Catholics.

 

[PRmerger]

Today I learned Christ said, “There will be 27 canonized books about me” according to Catholics.

Is there some other way you know this?

 

[dronald]

Think about what you are saying.
You are asking for things Jesus said that are not found in any book.
Can you accept that fact that when Jesus lived and spoke, none of his words were written down? Or were there tape recorders and secretaries taking dictation?
To answer your question, **all of it **was kept in oral tradition and written down later. Before there was a New Testament, there was a Church. None of what Jesus did or said was found in Scripture, because the New Testament did not exist in written form yet.
The beatitudes were spoken by Jesus before they were written down, in fact decades passed before any of it was written down.
Before anything was written, there was a Person (Jesus), who entrusted himself to other persons (apostles, Church). Out of this living Tradition came the written word.
Can you accept that or do you have an alternative explanation of some kind?

Oral Tradition lasts longer than 100 years as you must know.

So again I ask, do we have any words that we know are of Jesus not found in our New Testament books?

It’s really okay to say “No, we have no such words” and explain why.

 

[mustrdseedfaith]

Agree with House Harkonnen that these issues no longer apply. Protestants, particularly Anglican and Lutheran, are seeking closer ties with the Catholic Church.

As an Anglican, I would say that I do indeed have questions about Catholic dogma that I came into this forum to have answered. All credit goes to EWTN for demonstrating a very vital and attractive spirituality in the Catholic Church that I had not seen there before. I didn’t intend to get hooked on Catholic TV, it was just so much richer and deeper than the non-Catholic programming. That said, there are some things that I can’t quite embrace and feel that perhaps I need to study them more.

However, after reading this forum for a day or two, I would be afraid to open up and share my heartfelt questions. Some posters convey a sense of “pounciness” of “slam dunking points” of elitism and Protest bashing that prevents this from being a safe venue for me.

 

[dronald]

Is there some other way you know this?

I’m not certain He said that. But if you know the first person who wrote, “And Christ said there will be 27 books.” I would love to see it!

 

[PRmerger]

Oral Tradition lasts longer than 100 years as you must know.

So again I ask, do we have any words that we know are of Jesus not found in our New Testament books?

It’s really okay to say “No, we have no such words” and explain why.

Be careful, dronald.

It is good for you to be here and in dialogue with knowledgeable Catholics.

You have been told the answer to the above question at least 5 times now.

And to be recusant to the answer while saying, “Catholics do not believe” what you have been told, at least 5 times, may be considered “contempt for Catholicism”.

So, now that your question has been answered. And answered…

Please answer mine: if you don’t believe that Christ told us that there would be 27 books in the NT, where do you believe you got this info from?

 

[PRmerger]

I’m not certain He said that. But if you know the first person who wrote, “And Christ said there will be 27 books.” I would love to see it!

You didn’t answer the question.

How do you know that there are 27 books of the NT?

 

[clem456]

Oral Tradition lasts longer than 100 years as you must know.

So again I ask, do we have any words that we know are of Jesus not found in our New Testament books?

It’s really okay to say “No, we have no such words” and explain why.

The answer to your question is simple: “all of it”
All of it was lived through Tradition before it was written. And it wasn’t written in tomorrow’s newspapers, there was decades of oral tradition.

A simple question for you:
When did Jesus die, and when was the first Gospel written?
Specifically what are the years involved…
And the follow up:
Where was the New Testament during that time?

 

[dronald]

However, after reading this forum for a day or two, I would be afraid to open up and share my heartfelt questions. Some posters convey a sense of “pounciness” of “slam dunking points” of elitism and Protest bashing that prevents this from being a safe venue for me.

I think CAF would be so amazing if I felt safer with my objections here. I even find I get drawn in and join out of the sinfulness of my flesh because I have to one up those who are being ‘smart’ with me.

It’s wrong, and I’ve said already that I’m working to improve it. I often drop out of discussions when I feel like I’m being spoken to as if I’m a moron.

But there are so many good people that you can have good talks with! I won’t name names of even the ones who really shine and give Catholicism a great name, but there’s some wonderful posters here and I really do think you should share your objections with them and ignore the sarcasm and belittling.

Good luck on your journey, searching for truth!

 

[dronald]

The answer to your question is simple: “all of it”
All of it was lived through Tradition before it was written. And it wasn’t written in tomorrow’s newspapers, there was decades of oral tradition.

Certainly. And I believe the point that you’re making is that even Matthew is Oral Tradition. So seeing that Matthew was written some 35 years after Jesus died (give or take depending on your views) and recorded quotes of Jesus accurately; and likewise John some 25 years after that, are there any quotes or words of Jesus passed down in Oral Tradition not found in the NT?

A simple question for you:
When did Jesus die, and when was the first Gospel written?
Specifically what are the years involved…
And the follow up:
Where was the New Testament during that time?

I just answered the first so I’ll go to your follow up. The Apostles taught and wrote accurately I believe.

 

[clem456]

I think CAF would be so amazing if I felt safer with my objections here. I even find I get drawn in and join out of the sinfulness of my flesh because I have to one up those who are being ‘smart’ with me.

It’s wrong, and I’ve said already that I’m working to improve it. I often drop out of discussions when I feel like I’m being spoken to as if I’m a moron.

But there are so many good people that you can have good talks with! I won’t name names of even the ones who really shine and give Catholicism a great name, but there’s some wonderful posters here and I really do think you should share your objections with them and ignore the sarcasm and belittling.

Good luck on your journey, searching for truth!

Forum rules discourage discussing posters instead of the topic.
Back to the discussion

What do you say to the fact that Jesus died in about the year 33, and the Gospels were written decades later? Where was the New Testament during that time? How did the written word come to be?

 

[dronald]

Be careful, dronald.

It is good for you to be here and in dialogue with knowledgeable Catholics.

You have been told the answer to the above question at least 5 times now.

And to be recusant to the answer while saying, “Catholics do not believe” what you have been told, at least 5 times, may be considered “contempt for Catholicism”.

So, now that your question has been answered. And answered…

Please answer mine: if you don’t believe that Christ told us that there would be 27 books in the NT, where do you believe you got this info from?

I’ve never actually heard the claim that Jesus said specifically how many books.

The way I see it is that the Church said, “This was written by James, we should probably keep it and compile it with these letters by Paul, etc.”

 

[dronald]

Forum rules discourage discussing posters instead of the topic.
Back to the discussion

What do you say to the fact that Jesus died in about the year 33, and the Gospels were written decades later? Where was the New Testament during that time?

Jesus was the New Testament. No doubt His Apostles taught and wrote accurately and commanded no one follow anyone who teaches anything contrary. The NT was proclaimed by word and by letter by the Apostles.

How did the written word come to be?

Pardon me?

 

[clem456]

Certainly. And I believe the point that you’re making is that even Matthew is Oral Tradition. So seeing that Matthew was written some 35 years after Jesus died (give or take depending on your views) and recorded quotes of Jesus accurately; and likewise John some 25 years after that, are there any quotes or words of Jesus passed down in Oral Tradition not found in the NT?

I just answered the first so I’ll go to your follow up. The Apostles taught and wrote accurately I believe.

Welcome to the Church.