Do most Orthodox Christians beleive in once saved always saved? Or not?

[rien]

An EO caller to CA this afternoon, with Friday guest apologist John Matinoni (5/23 if you want to check the archive), said Eastern Orthodox mostly believe in once saved always saved.

Martinoni sort of put the question off. He said , like he too often does IMO , he is not an expert in an area. IMO, as an apologist on EWTN, he should know something kind of major like this. To refute or affrim it. Faith alone or not is one of the major issues among Christians.

I don’t know the answer to this. I am not a professional apologist. I had never heard this before. Like too many I do not read enough of Eastern Orthodox apologists. I admit. But I am reading more.

Anyway, does anyone know the EO teaching on “once saved”?

 

[Volodymyr]

This teaching of Afansij, Mitropolit of Perm in Orthodox Catechism on Salvation:

Надо “взять крест свой и следовать за Христом”, Который “пострадал за нас, оставив нам пример, чтобы мы шли по следам Его… Так понимает Церковь Христова дело нашего спасения и полагает необходимыми для спасения, или для получения, сохранения и утверждения дара жизни вечной все средства: таинства благодати Святаго Духа, добродетели сердца христианскаго и от него всякия добрыя дела, примеры спасения и образцы исполнения евангельских заповедей среди множества святых и уже спасшихся людей, богослужение священнодействий, молитв и песнопений церковных, назидательные для ума и чувств святые обряды, вещественныя святыни икон, креста, останков святых и всего, что можно найти в святых храмах, которые в своем благолепном устройстве и в богослужении изображают нам Царство Божие небесное.

Translated: It is necesary to take up cross and follow after Christ who suffered for us, leaving us His example that we might follow him, being his Apostols. Thus the Church of Christ understands the work of our Salvation and recognizes as necessary for salvation = for receiving, preserving and confirming the gift of eternal life = these means: mysteries of Grace of Holy Spirit, Virtues of Christian heart and all good deeds, examples and models of Evangelical testimonies among the many saints and already saved persons, Divine worship offered by priests, prayer, singing himns, education for mind and feedings, holy rites, holy things: icons, cross, relics of Saints and all that can be found in Holy Temples which in their beneficent construction and divine worship image the Kingdom of God in Heaven.

 

[Ghosty]

An EO caller to CA this afternoon, with Friday guest apologist John Matinoni (5/23 if you want to check the archive), said Eastern Orthodox mostly believe in once saved always saved.

Martinoni sort of put the question off. He said , like he too often does IMO , he is not an expert in an area. IMO, as an apologist on EWTN, he should know something kind of major like this. To refute or affrim it. Faith alone or not is one of the major issues among Christians.

I don’t know the answer to this. I am not a professional apologist. I had never heard this before. Like too many I do not read enough of Eastern Orthodox apologists. I admit. But I am reading more.

Anyway, does anyone know the EO teaching on “once saved”?

Definitly incorrect, and it makes me wonder where this Eastern Orthodox person was educated, and where he attends. It’s possible that he’s from the Protestant group that entered the Antiochian Orthodox Church, or a parish that is mostly made up of the same. I’ve heard many questionable things coming from that people in that segment of the Antiochian Church, including the repudiation of the Sacrament of Confession (!).

That’s the only explaination I can think of for this man’s claims, which are so plainly contrary to Orthodox belief and practice that it’s difficult to even address.

Peace and God bless!

 

[rien]

Definitly incorrect, and it makes me wonder where this Eastern Orthodox person was educated, and where he attends. It’s possible that he’s from the Protestant group that entered the Antiochian Orthodox Church, or a parish that is mostly made up of the same. I’ve heard many questionable things coming from that people in that segment of the Antiochian Church, including the repudiation of the Sacrament of Confession (!).

That’s the only explaination I can think of for this man’s claims, which are so plainly contrary to Orthodox belief and practice that it’s difficult to even address.

Peace and God bless!

Thanks. It did not sound right to me. But Martinoni should have known this. Sorry, I have a problem with him. He seems not up to the position he has on EWTN.

That aside, there is at least one formerly evangelical Vineyard congregation in the Bay Area (Cupertino) which has converted to the Antiochian Orthodox church. Pastors and congregants. They are getting lots of converts from Catholcism and many Orthodox Christans, mostly younger, are moving from their Orthodox parishes to this emerging mega-Orthodox parish. I understand their theology is not always aligned with traditional Orthodoxy. But they are getting lots converts and are now the largest Orthodox parish in N. Calif. I’ve read.

 

[Madaglan]

Definitly incorrect, and it makes me wonder where this Eastern Orthodox person was educated, and where he attends. It’s possible that he’s from the Protestant group that entered the Antiochian Orthodox Church, or a parish that is mostly made up of the same. I’ve heard many questionable things coming from that people in that segment of the Antiochian Church, including the repudiation of the Sacrament of Confession (!).

That’s the only explaination I can think of for this man’s claims, which are so plainly contrary to Orthodox belief and practice that it’s difficult to even address.

Peace and God bless!

I don’t have too much experience with the Antiochian Orthodox in America. The ones I’ve met are mostly converts from various backgrounds, including a pastor who used to be an LCMS pastor.

 

[Madaglan]

Thanks. It did not sound right to me. But Martinoni should have known this. Sorry, I have a problem with him. He seems not up to the position he has on EWTN.

That aside, there is at least one formerly evangelical Vineyard congregation in the Bay Area (Cupertino) which has converted to the Antiochian Orthodox church. Pastors and congregants. They are getting lots of converts from Catholcism and many Orthodox Christans, mostly younger, are moving from their Orthodox parishes to this emerging mega-Orthodox parish. I understand their theology is not always aligned with traditional Orthodoxy. But they are getting lots converts and are now the largest Orthodox parish in N. Calif. I’ve read.

Interesting. Some Orthodox are big fans of the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese, especially as regards their missionary endeavors in the United States. (something like 60% of Antiochian priests are converts.)

 

[rien]

Interesting. Some Orthodox are big fans of the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese, especially as regards their missionary endeavors in the United States. (something like 60% of Antiochian priests are converts.)

That is true for the Cupertino church. They boast about 25% of their members are former Catholics. I think its a case of more orthodox Catholics going for the emotional almost charismatic services of this Orthodox church and finding it lots easier than than going evangelical. The Eucharist is still valid and all. I think that may be a part of the reason for converting from a Catholic perspective. They get converts from evangalical/pentecostlism too but its a different journey I am sure.

Problem is the south Bay does not have a lot of orthodox Catholics and enough of them are being drawn to the Antiochian Orthodox church to make a dent in the relatively small orthtoodx Catholic presence in the area.

I’ve heard a number of Catholic priests have converted as well as evangelixcal pastors.

Could this be the new springtime? You never know.

 

[JonNC]

I don’t have too much experience with the Antiochian Orthodox in America. The ones I’ve met are mostly converts from various backgrounds, including a pastor who used to be an LCMS pastor.

This may or may not be relevant, but if the pastor is a former LCMS, most likely he isn’t teaching OSAS.

Jon

 

[Madaglan]

This may or may not be relevant, but if the pastor is a former LCMS, most likely he isn’t teaching OSAS.

Jon

You are correct.

 

[bpbasilphx]

(something like 60% of Antiochian priests are converts.)

Speaking as one who converted to Orthodoxy over 30 years ago, why are there so few priests who were raised in the bosom of the Church from their childhood?