Do Muslims and Catholics worship the same God?

[Bahaitruth]

How about what Catholicism professes: Godly deeds and correct faith?

That seems to be the correct paradigm to espouse. Not erroneous ones where one says, “Well, at least I am doing something good even if I do worship a BULL!”

Hi PR,

My understanding is
#1 correct faith is first,
#2 then second, its correct deeds, and
#3 then third, incorrect deeds cancel out correct faith.

So it’s a circle that starts with correct faith.

 

[Bahaitruth]

No, just no. Bahai true standard is calling to nothing more than all out worship of the creation. This is not an inspiration from God at all.

OT: You shall not make for yourselves an idol, nor any image of anything that is in the heavens above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: you shall not bow yourself down to them, nor serve them,

NT: Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’”

“Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.”

QURAN:
Say, “O People of the Scripture, come to a word that is equitable between us and you - that we will not worship except Allah and not associate anything with Him and not take one another as lords instead of Allah.” But if they turn away, then say, “Bear witness that we are Muslims [submitting to Him].”

Indeed, Allah does not forgive association with Him, but He forgives what is less than that for whom He wills. And he who associates others with Allah has certainly gone far astray.

I totally completely agree here. That’s why I disagree with Ignatian’s claim that the bahai Faith teaches a form of patripassianism or high-theophany Incarnationism. So the real question in my own mind (and in your minds) is/should be what do I mean exactly when I make such exalted claims in support of Bahaullah?

 

[ephesians2]

Answer me this, please:

If one person points up at the sky and says “the moon is made of green cheese.”

Another person points up at the sky and says “the moon is not made of green cheese.”

Does that mean that there are 2 moons up in the sky?

Obviously, one person is incorrect FrDavid96. Truth is not relative. Only one can be the truth.

As the Father created the moon for light, navigation and a testimony to His power and judgment, Christ the Son gave us His documented words as light, navigation and a testimony to His power and judgment.

 

[FrDavid96]

Obviously, one person is incorrect FrDavid96. Truth is not relative. Only one can be the truth.

As the Father created the moon for light, navigation and a testimony to His power and judgment, Christ the Son gave us His documented words as light, navigation and a testimony to His power and judgment.

You are still not answering the question.

You did not answer my question, and you are not answering the OPs question.

 

[Servant19]

How about what Catholicism professes: Godly deeds and correct faith?

That seems to be the correct paradigm to espouse. Not erroneous ones where one says, “Well, at least I am doing something good even if I do worship a BULL!”

Thank you PR, the erroneousness seems to be coming from accusations being made without fully reading anything being posted.

I will post what I quoted 5 or so posts above for you

The first duty prescribed by God for His servants is the recognition of Him Who is the Dayspring of His Revelation and the Fountain of His laws, Who representeth the Godhead in both the Kingdom of His Cause and the world of creation. Whoso achieveth this duty hath attained unto all good; and whoso is deprived thereof hath gone astray, though he be the author of every righteous deed. It behoveth every one who reacheth this most sublime station, this summit of transcendent glory, to observe every ordinance of Him Who is the Desire of the world. These twin duties are inseparable. Neither is acceptable without the other. Thus hath it been decreed by Him Who is the Source of Divine inspiration

• Baha’u’llah

.

 

[Bahaitruth]

Servant, seems to me PRmerger is saying same thing as Bahaullah said in this regard. I think Pope John Paul II said that all religions have components in them that are true, so from a Catholic perspective Baha’u’llah’s statement could be seen as a true component in the false religion of Bahai.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

This is why a precise reading of posts is so important.

This post you quoted requires context.

Post #610

Moses was the man. His word was the Word…

.

The question isn’t whether such a thing is possible but whether it is permissible. You are content and happy to see people currently worship whatever they want so long as they are sincere and there is no wrath against them apparently. If you disagree with this positions then state your position clearly.

Is it lawful to worship things other than God? Why does your God then change so much every generation?

 

[Servant19]

Is it lawful to worship things other than God? Why does your God then change so much every generation?

Today, no…it is not permissible to worship anything other than God through Baha’u’llah, BUT, you are only limited by what you are aware of.

6000 years ago, the level of awareness of who God is was different. There were still Messengers of God at that time. What the Message was that was given to the peoples living then was acceptable in the sight of God once people accepted His Message “at that time”

Today, the Message and richness of who God is has advanced and with Baha’u’llah it has reached new levels. It is only permissible to accept God through Baha’u’llah…

.

 

[Matthew_Light]

So it’s a circle that starts with correct faith.

And what exactly is the REAL INNER MEANING of “correct faith” in THIS DAY?

Is it allegiance to the correct name? Jesus? Yeshua? Baha’u’llah?

Or is there something even more important than which name we follow?

"Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity." - Matthew 7:21-24

And since you and are I Baha’is:

"“the man who lives the life according to the teachings of Bahá’u’lláh is already a Bahá’í. On the other hand a man may call himself a Bahá’í for fifty years and if he does not live the life he is not a Bahá’í. " - Abdu’l-Baha in London

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Today, no…it is not permissible to worship anything other than God through Baha’u’llah, BUT, you are only limited by what you are aware of.

6000 years ago, the level of awareness of who God is was different. There were still Messengers of God at that time. What the Message was that was given to the peoples living then was acceptable in the sight of God once people accepted His Message “at that time”

Today, the Message and richness of who God is has advanced and with Baha’u’llah it has reached new levels. It is only permissible to accept God through Baha’u’llah…

.

So it is not okay for us Christians to worship through Jesus Christ when we know of Ali Hussein? Why couldn’t you just say that before? Also was God right to be angry with the Israelite who worshiped the Bull? Did they deserve their punishment and chastisement?

 

[Servant19]

Servant, seems to me PRmerger is saying same thing as Bahaullah said in this regard. I think Pope John Paul II said that all religions have components in them that are true, so from a Catholic perspective Baha’u’llah’s statement could be seen as a true component in the false religion of Bahai.

Thankyou brother, I appreciate that, but I think PR did not read the quote from Baha’u’llah.

I did espouse faith AND goodly deeds. I have espoused that to threads she’s been involved in maybe 10 times in the past 3 months

 

[Bahaitruth]

Servant, this statement of yours (to Ignatian) seems clear to me. But to make it clearer for Ignatian I’d add that since God is defined as unknowable in the Bahai writings, all attempts at knowing God fall short. But since Bahais believe man evolves spiritually, man is able to understand more about God over time. And since Bahais reject the literal story of Adam and Eve, the “bull” worshipped 20,000 years ago by cavemen represented “God” to them. Even young children today form “images” in their mind as their belief in God evolves. Bahais see the growth of a child to adulthood to be Identical to the spiritual evolution of man over generations and millennia.

 

[Servant19]

So it is not okay for us Christians to worship through Jesus Christ when we know of Ali Hussein?

No, its not okay, from my understanding of Baha’u’llah’s quote above

Why couldn’t you just say that before?

I’m human and I didn’t know exactly what you were looking for…

Also was God right to be angry with the Israelite who worshiped the Bull? Did they deserve their punishment and chastisement?

I don’t espouse the attribute of “anger” onto God. Anger is an imperfection, God is perfect.

Worshipping a Bull, with Moses talking about the opposite down the road is not good, not good at all…

.

 

[Matthew_Light]

Today, the Message and richness of who God is has advanced and with Baha’u’llah it has reached new levels. It is only permissible to accept God through Baha’u’llah…

.

I’m afraid I have to disagree with you here, Servant:

"“the man who lives the life according to the teachings of Bahá’u’lláh is already a Bahá’í. On the other hand a man may call himself a Bahá’í for fifty years and if he does not live the life he is not a Bahá’í. " - Abdu’l-Baha in London

And which teachings is Abdu’l-Baha referring to?

“To be a Bahá’í simply means to love all the world; to love humanity and try to serve it; to work for universal peace and universal brotherhood.”

I love our religion and our message.

But to say that Catholics, or Jews, or Muslims, or agnostics, or anyone is not acceptable to God if they have a deep and abiding love of Reality and Truth and their fellow man in their hearts - I cannot agree with this statement.

 

[Servant19]

Servant, this statement of yours (to Ignatian) seems clear to me. But to make it clearer for Ignatian I’d add that since God is defined as unknowable in the Bahai writings, all attempts at knowing God fall short. But since Bahais believe man evolves spiritually, man is able to understand more about God over time. And since Bahais reject the literal story of Adam and Eve, the “bull” worshipped 20,000 years ago by cavemen represented “God” to them. Even young children today form “images” in their mind as their belief in God evolves. Bahais see the growth of a child to adulthood to be Identical to the spiritual evolution of man over generations and millennia.

You ARE a good Baha’i …you see…

 

[Matthew_Light]

So it is not okay for us Christians to worship through Jesus Christ when we know of Ali Hussein?

I am a Baha’i, and I think it is perfectly OK for you to worship God through Jesus Christ!

God judges by who is doing His will, not by which religious affiliation we carry.

 

[Bahaitruth]

Servant and Matthew,

Now I would sort of agree with both of you here. Bahaullah is simultaneously described as a literal man living in Ottoman and Persian nations, and an impersonal reality who inspires good deeds in all people including other religions and atheists before and after his physical life from 1817-1892.

 

[Tom_Baum]

The question is not about the Incarnation.

You still do not understand the question, yet you persist in trying to answer it.

You may not like the answer I gave to the question but I did answer it.

However, you have avoided once again the simple question that I asked which is: If “one” were to worship a bull but call this bull the “God of Abraham Who created ALL”, would this “one” be worshipping the same God as Catholics?

Could you answer this question since both said that they are “worshipping” the “God of Abraham and the creator” which is the criteria you have cited in saying that Muslims and Catholics worship the same God?

 

[Servant19]

I’m afraid I have to disagree with you here, Servant:

"“the man who lives the life according to the teachings of Bahá’u’lláh is already a Bahá’í. On the other hand a man may call himself a Bahá’í for fifty years and if he does not live the life he is not a Bahá’í. " - Abdu’l-Baha in London

And which teachings is Abdu’l-Baha referring to?

“To be a Bahá’í simply means to love all the world; to love humanity and try to serve it; to work for universal peace and universal brotherhood.”

I love our religion and our message.

But to say that Catholics, or Jews, or Muslims, or agnostics, or anyone is not acceptable to God if they have a deep and abiding love of Reality and Truth and their fellow man in their hearts - I cannot agree with this statement.

Now we are getting to the crux of things Matthew

How do you reconcile this understanding you post with Baha’u’llah’s explicit statement:

“The first duty prescribed by God for His servants is the recognition of Him Who is the Dayspring of His Revelation and the Fountain of His laws, Who representeth the Godhead in both the Kingdom of His Cause and the world of creation. Whoso achieveth this duty hath attained unto all good…”

.

 

[Vouthon]

Now we are getting to the crux of things Matthew

How do you reconcile this understanding you post with Baha’u’llah’s explicit statement:

“The first duty prescribed by God for His servants is the recognition of Him Who is the Dayspring of His Revelation and the Fountain of His laws, Who representeth the Godhead in both the Kingdom of His Cause and the world of creation. Whoso achieveth this duty hath attained unto all good…”

.

I have been told by Baha’is, longstanding, such as Arthra in the past that the Kitab-i-Aqdas and its teachings are binding only on Baha’is and that therefore this “first duty” is enjoined only on people who have declared for Baha’u’llah, not those who have not come to an awareness of his station.