Do Muslims and Catholics worship the same God?

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By God, I am referring to EVERY SINGLE one of His attributes, not His essence.
Ok. 🤷
God’s creation is full of His attributes. It is through His creation we can get a incling of knowledge from Him.
The human heart however, He has reserved for the manifestation of every single one of His attributes. When these are expressed externally in their purest fashion, we become the perfect human being…
So (although God can create oceans and electrons) God cannot become contained in a human body (or tabernacle, I suppose)…

but He can live within every human heart…and here you just mean that* love* can be present in every human heart. Is that what you mean?
 
Nonsense you do not know what He can and cannot do. PERIOD.
🙂

Well actually we can see what God CAN do…its all around us. 🙂
We just are not aware fully what He “cannot” do…do you know what God cannot do?

Also what are the things that God “will not” do?
Remove our free will maybe? Maybe some others?
Muhammad did say that God will not have a son, whatever that may mean…there may be other components of religious Scripture which may discern some things that God will not do…

Whether you believe the Scripture to be true or not is a test for all human beings…
You bought this up? Is murder and lying HIs attribute?
Yes, they are, lying is in reality an absence of truthfulness. God’s attribute of truthfulness is present in every human heart. We have free will to express it or turn against it.
Isaiah 45:7
I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the Lord, who does all these things.
God created the light AND the darkness, the truthfulness AND the lying, the well-being AND the calamity.

Where the painter paints is where the creation is expressed. Every part of the canvas that is not painted on is simply an area where paint is not expressed. The painter creates the entire canvas nevertheless…
But God can do anything?
Yes, He can, but will He. Will He remove all free will for example?

**Proverbs 16:9

The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps.**
You contradicted yourself “we can get a incling of knowledge from Him.”
The “inkling of knowledge” that we gain is from His attributes…
“we can get a incling of knowledge from Him.” But he can do anything.
Your humble opinion is you do not know what God can do if He can do anything.
Sorry Gary, I don’t think I follow your reasoning here, my bad…I just don’t understand what you are trying to share. Maybe you could re-phrase?
🙂

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Certainly.

Were you under the misapprehension that God BECAME the creation?
No, I acknowledge that the Incarnation is not pantheism 🙂

I just feel that the "eternal Logos" which was existing throughout eternity is still a Created Entity. Eternal nature is created. Time and “not time” are both created concepts.

It is not God, and so the Incarnation of this “Eternal Logos” is not an Incarnation of God but an Incarnation of the “I am” which Incarnates, according to Hinduism from “age to age”

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The martyrs died and were saved because of their faith in Jesus Christ and the expression of “pistis Christu”

Jesus was the human Godhead for all humans until Muhammad declared “I am”
God reveals his name in Exodus 3

13 Then Moses said to God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” 14 God said to Moses,** “I am** who I am.”[a]** And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel,** ‘I am has sent me to you.’**”

Jesus identifies himself as this same God in John 8:58

Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

Eleven of the twelve apostles and the first twenty or so Popes died as Martyrs believing Jesus was the great “I AM”. None of them believed that Jesus was anything other than God incarnate who died on the cross, rose from the dead and who appeared to them for forty days on earth before ascending to heaven in front of their eyes.

This account conflicts greatly with a man hundreds of years later who came up with a new religion, denying Christ’s divinity saying that he was only a prophet and never died on the cross. That they believe in the God of Abraham I give them a 👍 but they have been led astray in understanding God and his revelation to man through his Son Jesus Christ.**
 
:)Well actually we can see what God CAN do…its all around us. 🙂
We just are not aware fully what He “cannot” do…do you know what God cannot do?.
Lie and murder.

The question is how do you know He cannot be Jesus Christ if God can do anything? Do the answers reside in nature all around you?
Also what are the things that God “will not” do?
Remove our free will maybe? Maybe some others?..
What does free will accomplish in your understanding? This a new term injected, please define so we are all on the same page.
Muhammad did say that God will not have a son, whatever that may mean…there may be other components of religious Scripture which may discern some things that God will not do…
Validity of anything Mohammed is still in question in comparison to Gods attributes thus Jesus Christ and Mohammed.
:)Whether you believe the Scripture to be true or not is a test for all human beings…
What scripture we are talking many? Various opinions exist, who should we listen to Mohammed or Jesus or of course after we understand these attributes?
:)Yes, they are, lying is in reality an absence of truthfulness. God’s attribute of truthfulness is present in every human heart. We have free will to express it or turn against it…
This is another contradiction. You’ll need to clarify all this. You said yes lying and murder are Gods attributes here.
God created the light AND the darkness, the truthfulness AND the lying, the well-being AND the calamity…
Define light and darkness in relation to God. Is God light? Is darkness murder and lying. Can light and darkness occupy the same space.
Where the painter paints is where the creation is expressed. Every part of the canvas that is not painted on is simply an area where paint is not expressed. The painter creates the entire canvas nevertheless…
Maybe you should also elaborate further here. Is the painting finished or not?
Yes, He can, but will He. Will He remove all free will for example?.
I don’t know your understanding as stated above.
The “inkling of knowledge” that we gain is from His attributes…
Right which means you cannot know what God can do if He can do anything? What is it God cannot do? Lie and murder, can he do that?
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No, I acknowledge that the Incarnation is not pantheism 🙂

I just feel that the "eternal Logos" which was existing throughout eternity is still a Created Entity. Eternal nature is created.
Then you do not understand the Incarnation.
Time and “not time” are both created concepts.
That is nonsensical. What is “not time” and where can I find it, since it is “created”?
 
Ok. 🤷

So (although God can create oceans and electrons) God cannot become contained in a human body (or tabernacle, I suppose)…

but He can live within every human heart…and here you just mean that* love* can be present in every human heart. Is that what you mean?
I personally believe, from my understanding of reading the Word of God from the global religions is that Jesus Christ is the embodiment and Incarnation of the “eternal Logos”, meaning He is the embodiment of every Godly attribute expressed to PERFECTION.

As human beings we also are embodiments of every Godly attribute, yet we sin, meaning we do not “express” these attributes perfectly, we are “sons of God” in that the potential to express the attributes perfectly are there, yet we do not fulfil our potential because of the flesh. We are asked to aspire to be “Sons of God” (capital “S”)…pistus Christu gives us the “how” of this…
Galatians 5:16-17
But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.
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I personally believe, from my understanding of reading the Word of God from the global religions is that Jesus Christ is the embodiment and Incarnation of the “eternal Logos”, meaning He is the embodiment of every Godly attribute expressed to PERFECTION…
That is why you should read the Word of God from the lens of the faith which gave you the Bible.

Otherwise, you come up with your own made up, erroneous conclusions.
 
God reveals his name in Exodus 3

13 Then Moses said to God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” 14 God said to Moses,** “I am** who I am.”[a]** And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel,** ‘I am has sent me to you.’****”

Jesus identifies himself as this same God in John 8:58

Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

Eleven of the twelve apostles and the first twenty or so Popes died as Martyrs believing Jesus was the great “I AM”. None of them believed that Jesus was anything other than God incarnate who died on the cross, rose from the dead and who appeared to them for forty days on earth before ascending to heaven in front of their eyes.

This account conflicts greatly with a man hundreds of years later who came up with a new religion, denying Christ’s divinity saying that he was only a prophet and never died on the cross. That they believe in the God of Abraham I give them a 👍 but they have been led astray in understanding God and his revelation to man through his Son Jesus Christ.

Bhagavad Gita 10:8

BG 10.8: I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who perfectly know this engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts.

The I am manifests itself in SEVERAL human bodies throughout history, and I believe they all gave rise to global religions.

Human beings are not stupid, especially on a large collective level. When they see an embodiment of the “I am” in human form, it usually results in those people foregoing their entire lives, beings, traditions and families to be with that “I am” (whether its Lord Krishna, Jesus, Muhammad, the Bab or Baha’u’llah)

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That is why you should read the Word of God from the lens of the faith which gave you the Bible.

Otherwise, you come up with your own made up, erroneous conclusions.
I read it from the lens of God Himself, the Father 🙂

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Do Muslims and Catholics worship the same God…???
I don’t think I read anything “explicit” here, I assume its your impression also? I also notice a significant emphasis on “Word in relation to Quran” . I get this same impression when talking to some protestants as they venture out from mainline, so this with Mohammed takes on a deeper meaning?
 
Just one other passing observation. Tom above somewhere started speaking on his personal or private revelation. It seemed to be kind off shrugged off. Which I understand, what I don’t understand is why is Mohammed elevated?

Just saying.
 
The answer to the question posed in the title of this thread is found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P29.HTM
 
The answer to the question posed in the title of this thread is found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P29.HTM
Fair enough, but your not explicitly saying what even the first sentence is referring to. Somehow this Quran, Mohammed and private revelation are all injected into the above, and we don’t know who muslim are to even start thinking about who is professing this.

Certainly this non-Christian address has a different level of definitive understanding than the priority of infallible teaching, thus it calls for much deeper reading to even begin to understand the meaning of the reference of words in 841? And I don’t see conclusive answers without doing so. Am I to assume we are talking Islam and Quran. isn’t it fair to ask these questions before we conclude who is worshipping who?

Help me out here.
 
I read it from the lens of God Himself, the Father 🙂

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What is the Bahai system for resolving these 2 disparate views.

You say that your view is from God. Catholics say our view is from God. They are in conflict with each other.

What is the solution?
 
What is the Bahai system for resolving these 2 disparate views.

You say that your view is from God. Catholics say our view is from God. They are in conflict with each other.

What is the solution?
the solution is found in the Bible 🙂
"Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. "
  • Matthew 7:21
Lets DO things together.

Do you know what the Baha’is do?
I know what the Catholics do…

🙂

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Fair enough, but your not explicitly saying what even the first sentence is referring to. Somehow this Quran, Mohammed and private revelation are all injected into the above, and we don’t know who muslim are to even start thinking about who is professing this.

Certainly this non-Christian address has a different level of definitive understanding than the priority of infallible teaching, thus it calls for much deeper reading to even begin to understand the meaning of the reference of words in 841? And I don’t see conclusive answers without doing so. Am I to assume we are talking Islam and Quran. isn’t it fair to ask these questions before we conclude who is worshipping who?

Help me out here.

You’re just trying to play word games.

The Catechism answers the question plainly enough.

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”
 
The Catechism answers the question plainly enough.

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”
Actually I was very clear above. This is a rhetorical perspective and its playing out before our eyes. 😉

That’s the “purpose” and wisdom I have to assume.
 
the solution is found in the Bible 🙂
This is a great illustration as to why the Bible cannot be the solution: I have no idea what you mean by quoting Matthew as a solution to my question.

I need to have you explicate why you are quoting Matthew.

What does it mean to you? How does Matthew solve the problem of 2 different people claiming that their disparate views are from God.
Do you know what the Baha’is do?
Nope.
I know what the Catholics do…
In regards to what? :confused:
 
The answer to the question posed in the title of this thread is found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P29.HTM
Why I wonder do some people choose to keep ignoring this, which you have repeated several times?
 
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