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LDNCatholic
Guest
A quick look at the 99 names of God written in the Qu’ran reveals:
‘‘Al Wadud’’-’‘The Loving’’
‘‘Ar-Ra’uf’’-’‘The Compassionate’’
God Bless
Peter
- Status
‘‘Al Wadud’’-’‘The Loving’’
‘‘Ar-Ra’uf’’-’‘The Compassionate’’
God Bless
Peter
H
hamba2han
Guest
Another of the 99 names of Allah is:
AL-WADÛD – The Loving One
Al-Qur’an 011.090
Waistaghfiroo rabbakum thumma tooboo ilayhi inna rabbee raheemun wadoodun
"But ask forgiveness of your Lord, and turn unto Him (in repentance): For my Lord is indeed full of mercy and loving-kindness."
Al-Qur’an 085.014
Wahuwa alghafooru alwadoodu
And He is the Oft-Forgiving, Full of Loving-Kindness,
Furthermore, Allah even loves sinners but on condition that they first sincerely repent their sins and wrongdoings as can be seen from numerous verses from the Qur’an, among them are these two examples:
“Allah loves those who turn unto Him in repentance and loves those who purify themselves”… [al-Baqarah 2:222]
“Say: O ‘Ibaadi (My slaves) who have transgressed against themselves (by committing evil deeds and sins)! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah, verily, Allah forgives all sins. Truly, He is Oft‑Forgiving, Most Merciful”… [al-Zumar 39:53]
Those who sincerely repent all of their wrongdoings should never despair that their Creator will not grant them relief when they come back to Him, no matter how far astray they might have gone.
It was narrated from Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said:
** “Allah, may He be glorified and exalted, says: ‘I am as My slave thinks I am, and I am with him when he remembers Me. If he remembers me to himself, I remember him to Myself; if he remembers Me in a gathering, I remember him in a gathering better than it; if he draws near to Me a handspan, I draw near to him an arm’s length; if he draws near to me an arm’s length, I draw near to him a fathom’s length; if he comes to Me walking, I go to him at speed.”** … Narrated by Muslim (2675).
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Reuben_J
Guest
tsk tsk it is so obvious that Allah is not the Christian God that we know of.
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hamba2han
Guest
The God that Muslims worship is the Greatest Terrorist in the whole Universe… among His many attributes of course.tsk tsk it is so obvious that Allah is not the Christian God that we know of.
The God that Christians worship is apparently filled with so much love and compassion that He does not send any of His creations to Hell… but He instead allows His creations to “send themselves to the Hell-fire”.
Methinks I will submit to a Deity who at the very least is a great deal more purposeful.
B
Booklover
Guest
If we have committed any mortal sins and die unrepentant, we will go to hell. God is always ready and willing to forgive anyone who repents though.
Oh yes, you love the idea of the unbelievers going to hell, don’t you?
The God that Christians believe in, unlike the Islamic god Allah, does not make us take 5 baths a day because he will not accept our prayers unless we’re squeaky clean. Neither does he invalidate our prayers if we pass wind. It is a really unreasonable God indeed who does these things and has Muslims scrambling around looking for water to bathe and having to use dirt if none is available because otherwise their prayers will be invalid. In one college, Muslims were cleaning their feet in the toilets because all the sinks were being used. Do you call that rational behaviour?
And this is the kind of life you want everyone to embrace?? Thanks, but not thanks, I’ll take the Christian God over the Islamic one any day. A Christian could be covered with mud, dung, faeces and have no doubt of his prayers being heard because our God is neither irrational nor unreasonable. Neither does he want us to submit to him out of fear!
The Christian God loves everyone, even those who don’t believe in him, unlike the Islamic god who only loves Muslims.
Vickie
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paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
I quote some verses that Muslims love most GodAllahYHWH.
[2:164] And your God is One God; there is no God but He, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[2:165] Verily, in the creation of the heavens and the earth and in the alternation of the night and the day, and in the ships which sail in the sea with that which profits men, and in the water which Allah sends down from the sky and quickens therewith the earth after its death and scatters therein all kinds of beasts, and in the change of the winds and the clouds pressed into service between the heaven and the earth - are indeed Signs for the people who use their understanding.
[2:166] And there are some among men who take for themselves objects of worship other than Allah, loving them as they should love Allah. But believers are stronger in their love for Allah. And if those who transgress could now see the time when they shall see the punishment, they would realize that all power belongs to Allah and that Allah is severe in punishing.
[2:167] Could they but see when those who were followed shall disown their followers and shall see the punishment and all their ties shall be cut asunder.
www3.alislam.org/showChapter.jsp?ch=2&verse=157
Thanks
I quote some verses that Muslims love most GodAllahYHWH.
[2:164] And your God is One God; there is no God but He, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[2:165] Verily, in the creation of the heavens and the earth and in the alternation of the night and the day, and in the ships which sail in the sea with that which profits men, and in the water which Allah sends down from the sky and quickens therewith the earth after its death and scatters therein all kinds of beasts, and in the change of the winds and the clouds pressed into service between the heaven and the earth - are indeed Signs for the people who use their understanding.
[2:166] And there are some among men who take for themselves objects of worship other than Allah, loving them as they should love Allah. But believers are stronger in their love for Allah. And if those who transgress could now see the time when they shall see the punishment, they would realize that all power belongs to Allah and that Allah is severe in punishing.
[2:167] Could they but see when those who were followed shall disown their followers and shall see the punishment and all their ties shall be cut asunder.
www3.alislam.org/showChapter.jsp?ch=2&verse=157
Thanks
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Reuben_J
Guest
VickieIf we have committed any mortal sins and die unrepentant, we will go to hell. God is always ready and willing to forgive anyone who repents though.
Oh yes, you love the idea of the unbelievers going to hell, don’t you?
The God that Christians believe in, unlike the Islamic god Allah, does not make us take 5 baths a day because he will not accept our prayers unless we’re squeaky clean. Neither does he invalidate our prayers if we pass wind. It is a really unreasonable God indeed who does these things and has Muslims scrambling around looking for water to bathe and having to use dirt if none is available because otherwise their prayers will be invalid. In one college, Muslims were cleaning their feet in the toilets because all the sinks were being used. Do you call that rational behaviour?
And this is the kind of life you want everyone to embrace?? Thanks, but not thanks, I’ll take the Christian God over the Islamic one any day. A Christian could be covered with mud, dung, faeces and have no doubt of his prayers being heard because our God is neither irrational nor unreasonable. Neither does he want us to submit to him out of fear!
The Christian God loves everyone, even those who don’t believe in him, unlike the Islamic god who only loves Muslims.
Vickie
Sorry Hamba, but that’s how it’s.
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Reuben_J
Guest
I have to respectfully say that you err in the understanding of this aspect of the Quran. I am saying that you are wrong even though you are a Muslim (who should know better than me) and I am a Christian.
What you’re saying is an afterthought of modern present day Muslims after realizing the mistake of the Quran. Your argument, I believe, is not the understanding of the majority of Muslims who would have no knowledge of what you are saying.
Anyway that Quranic verse defies logic if you interpret it that way. Why trying to interpolate it when the obvious is so glaring. It mentions Father, Son and Mary.
Your argument also defies human logic and common sense. At the time of Mohammad, Christianity was already flourishing in Christendom. Her pillar of belief is no more hidden from anyone, unless of course … if Mohammad had no contact with Rome or Christians at that time of the revelation of the verse. So Mohammad made mistake, perhaps because his source were the Gnostics or other heretics, or Gabriel who was at times could not be fully trusted. Remember how this holy spirit (or was it?) used to try to suffocate Mohammad. One must try to evaluate the intergrity of the person of Gabriel, really.
In any case, Christians at that time, not just a small minority, DID venerate Mary. Thus Mohammad meant it if he actually wanted to chastise Christians about worshipping Mary. But the Trinity is never Father, Son and Mary. So you see, you don’t have a very strong case.
Look around your fellow Muslims. There are many of you who still think that the Trinity is Father, Son and Mary. You don’t because you are exposed and perhaps have good interaction with Christians who will tell you that the Trinity is NOT Father, Son and Mary. Staying around in this forum certainly helps a lot in increasing your knowledge of Christianity.
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inJESUS
Guest
We read in Al-Tabari regarding 5:73:
They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three [in a Trinity]: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy) verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them." Qur’an 5:73.
حدثنا مـحمد بن الـحسين، قال: ثنا أحمد بن الـمفضل، قال: ثنا أسبـاط، عن السديّ: { لَقَدْ كَفَرَ الَّذِينَ قالُوا إنَّ اللّهَ ثالِثُ ثَلاثَةٍ } قال: قالت النصارى: هو الـمسيح وأمه، فذلك قول الله تعالـى:
{ أأنْتَ قُلْتَ للنَّاسِ اتَّـخِذُونِـي وأُمِّيَ إلَهَيْنِ مِنْ دُونِ اللّهِ }
Muhammad ben Al-Hussain said :…Christians said It is Jesus and his mother
and he linked 5:73 to 5:116
"And behold! Allah will say: “O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, ‘Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah?”
the same is repeated in Ibn Kathir:
وقال السدي وغيره: نزلت في جعلهم المسيح وأمه إلهين مع الله، فجعلوا الله ثالث ثلاثة بهذا الاعتبار، قال السدي: وهي كقوله تعالى في آخر السورة: { وَإِذْ قَالَ ٱللَّهُ يٰعِيسَى ٱبْنَ مَرْيَمَ أَءَنتَ قُلتَ لِلنَّاسِ ٱتَّخِذُونِى وَأُمِّىَ إِلَـٰهَيْنِ مِن دُونِ ٱللَّهِ قَالَ سُبْحَـٰنَكَ }
Suyuti as well said:
{ لَّقَدْ كَفَرَ ٱلَّذِينَ قَالُواْ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ ثَالِثُ } آلهة { ثَلَٰثَةً } أي أحدها والآخران عيسى وأُمّه وهم فرقة من النصارى { وَمَا مِنْ إِلَٰهٍ إِلاَّ إِلَٰهٌ وٰحِدٌ وَإِن لَّمْ يَنتَهُواْ عَمَّا يَقُولُونَ } من التثليث ويوحِّدوا { لَيَمَسَّنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ } أي ثبتوا على الكفر { مِنْهُمْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ } مؤلم وهو النار.
third of three means one, the second and third being Jesus and his mother.
so saying it was Christians is not accurate…and saying its a myth by Christians is not accurate because it was a myth believed by some Muslims that one wonders if you were taught anything correct about Christianity from Allah.
M
meedo
Guest
what you are quoting is merely an interpretation of individual muslims over the verse. It does noit represent a prominent interpretation nor does it indicate that the verse means such interpretation.
There are many interpretatioon of leser than important opinions in the Tafseer. Especially of the tafseer Ibn Katheer which holds many many opinions on teh same verse. This interpretation is notreffered or linked to the prophet Muhammed and is considered like countless interprepations of many muslims to be teh opinion of its sayer. The interprepation is not backed by a link to the prophet or teh Quran .
In short: it could have been me who interpreted the verse as i wish . That doesnt bind teh Quran truth to the understanding of my interpretation simply because i include details the Quran doesnt.
In the third interpretation you offer yourself it is mentioned that it is the interpreter opinion that it is a ''group ‘’ of christians who believe so . So it is no way generalised.
Again and again , Muslims dont care who is the christian trinity. The Quran doesnt care as well . and never defines it ir explains it. The Quran doesnt teach us christyianity. It only teaches us that Christians believe that Allah is considered by christians to be a third person in a trinity of persons that form God. which the Quran denounce as not correct belief. It also teach us that Christians elevate Mary to a status that si considered worship in Islam. ´
what you have posted doesnt negate what i have said earlier.
salam
I
inJESUS
Guest
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Reuben_J
Guest
Interesting. Muslims say it amount to worship if we ask Mary for intercession. Christians asked Mary for intercession. So when Mohammad said not to worship Mary, he must mean that Christians should not take Mary as God. And Christians believe in the Trinity.
Oh, it is so obvious that he thought Mary was one of the three persons of the Trinity. This is not to mention that he also said God did not need a consort to give birth to the second person of the Trinity.
I still maintain that it is the modern day Muslim apologetics that realize the Trinity does not include Mary after much exposure and study of Christianity.
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paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
The Catholics do believe in Divinity of Mary and do Worship her. I just quote one such confirmed catholic.
St Alphonsus De Liguori (who was given a doctor of the church label by Pope Pius IX) writes in his book “ Dignity and Duties of the Priest”. This book is an instructional guide for the clergy of the RCC.
Following words have been written by him about Mary:
page 409:
for without devotion to the **divine Mother **it is morally impossible for any one to be a good priest
page 415:
“As to her power. Cosmas of Jerusalem has called the intercession of our Queen not only powerful, but omnipotent. And Richard of St. Laurence has written: " From the omnipotent Son the Mother was made omnipotent.”
Hence St. Peter Damian has gone so far as to say, that when Mary goes to Jesus to ask a favor for any of her clients “she approaches the altar of human reconciliation; not asking, but commanding, not as a servant, but as a mistress; for the Son honors her by not refusing her anything.”
page 16:
Mary, being altogether transformed into God by grace and by the glory which transforms all the saints into Him
Heaven, earth and Hell bend, with good will or bad will, to the commandments of the humble Mary."
page 18:
“The most infallible and indubitable sign by which we may distinguish a heretic, a man of bad doctrine, a reprobate, from one of the predestinate, is that the heretic and the reprobate have nothing but contempt and indifference for Our Lady, endeavoring by their words and examples to diminish the **worship **and love of her.”
Saint Alphonsus Liguori (27 September 1696 – 1 August 1787) was an Italian Doctor of the Catholic Church, spiritual writer, and founder of the Congregation of the Most Holy Redeemer (Redemptorists), an influential religious order.
Alphonsus was consecrated bishop of the diocese of Sant’Agata dei Goti in 1762. He tried to refuse the appointment because he felt too old and too sick to properly care for the diocese. During this time he wrote sermons, books, and articles to encourage the devotion of the Blessed Sacrament and the Blessed Virgin Mary. In 1775 he was allowed to retire from his office and went to live in the Redemptorist community in Pagani, Italy where he died on 1 August 1787. He was canonized in 1831 by Pope Gregory XVI, proclaimed a Doctor of the Church in 1871 by Pope Pius IX, and Patron of Confessors and Moralists in 1950.
Thanks
R
Reuben_J
Guest
Thanks. How I like it in here, always learning new thing everday!
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paarsurrey
Guest
HiThanks. How I like it in here, always learning new thing everday!
You are sarcastic. Did I make some mistake in there? Please point it out plainly.
Thanks
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Reuben_J
Guest
I have not studied the literature you quoted and therefore cannot comment on it with confident.
But it’s been said a million times that Catholics do not worship Mary nor do they regard her as divine. Please check it out in the CCC. At this moment that’s the official teaching of the CC. Unlike Islam, it is not difficult to find what the official teachings of the CC are. You can go into the CA library too.
God bless.
P
paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
Sorry, I forgot to mention that the above information has been condensed/summarized by me from a long post; courtesy
christiandiscussionforums.org/v/showpost.php?p=2307842&postcount=58
Thanks
L
LDNCatholic
Guest
There is your mistake. You asked Protestants about Catholics. I’ll ask a Sunni about the Ahmadiyya and see if I get a positive response yes?
L
LDNCatholic
Guest
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paarsurrey
Guest
HiThanks. How I like it in here, always learning new thing everday!
There is another post which has ,new information, for me at least:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3168277#post3168277
Regular Member Join Date: May 5, 2007
Location: Chicopee, Massachusetts
Posts: 138
Re: Death of Jesus
Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen people
No Jew hates Yehoshua Bar Yosef…
Surely you know of the Jewish Babylonian Talmud that says Jesus was born a bastard and his mother, Mary, was a harlot (Mishna Yebamoth 4,13); that Jesus practiced black arts of magic (Sanhedrin 1076), and that Jesus is now suffering eternal punishment in a boiling vat of excrement (Mishna Sanhedrin X, 2).
Gittin 57a. Says Jesus is in hell, being boiled in “hot excrement.”
Sanhedrin 43a. Says Jesus (“Yeshu” and in Soncino footnote #6, Yeshu “the Nazarene”) was executed because he practiced sorcery: “It is taught that on the eve of Passover Jesus was hung, and forty days before this the proclamation was made: Jesus is to be stoned to death because he has practiced sorcery and has lured the people to idolatry…He was an enticer and of such thou shalt not pity or condone.”
On the website of the Orthodox Jewish Hasidic Lubavitch group–one of the largest in the world–we find the following statement, complete with Talmudic citations:
"The Talmud (Babylonian edition) records other sins of ‘Jesus the Nazarene’:
- He and his disciples practiced sorcery and black magic, led Jews astray into idolatry, and were sponsored by foreign, gentile powers for the purpose of subverting Jewish worship (Sanhedrin 43a).
- He was sexually immoral, worshipped statues of stone (a brick is mentioned), was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness, and refused to repent (Sanhedrin 107b; Sotah 47a).
- He learned witchcraft in Egypt and, to perform miracles, used procedures that involved cutting his flesh, which is also explicitly banned in the Bible (Shabbos 104b).
End quote from noahide.com/yeshu.htm (Lubavitch website) June 20, 2000.
“The Talmud contains a few explicit references to Jesus…These references are certainly not complimentary…There seems little doubt that the account of the execution of Jesus on the eve of Passover does refer to the Christian Jesus…The passage in which Jesus’ punishment in hell is described also seems to refer to the Christian Jesus. It is a piece of anti-Christian polemic dating from the post-70 CE period…” --Hyam Maccoby, Judaism on Trial, pp. 26-27.
"According to the Talmud, Jesus was executed by a proper rabbinical court for idolatry, inciting other Jews to idolatry, and contempt of rabbinical authority. All classical Jewish sources which mention his execution are quite happy to take responsibility for it; in the talmudic account the Romans are not even mentioned.
"The more popular accounts–which were nevertheless taken quite seriously–such as the notorious Toldot Yeshu are even worse, for in addition to the above crimes they accuse him of witchcraft. The very name ‘Jesus’ was for Jews a symbol of all that is abominable and this popular tradition still persists…
“The Hebrew form of the name Jesus–Yeshu–was interpreted as an acronym for the curse, ‘may his name and memory be wiped out,’ which is used as an extreme form of abuse. In fact, anti-zionist Orthodox Jews (such as Neturey Qarta) sometimes refer to Herzl as ‘Herzl Jesus’ and I have found in religious zionist writings expressions such as “Nasser Jesus” and more recently 'Arafat Jesus.” --Dr. Israel Shahak, Jewish History, Jewish Religion, pp. 97- 98, 118
The Talmud is full of language that portrays the Jews as God’s Master Race and depicts all other races as trash and garbage. It warns Jews to stay away from Christians because Christians are said to be “unclean” and “murderers.” On the other hand, a Jew is pictured as one of God’s Chosen People. The Jew is said to possess so great a dignity that no one, not even an angel, can share equality with him.
In fact, the Jew is said to be the equal of God. Rabbi Chanina says that, “He who strikes an Israelite acts as if he slaps the face of God’s Divine Majesty.”
Because the Christian is considered unclean, a murderer, and an idolater, he must be exterminated, slaughtered without pity, squashed like a bug. “The memory of that man (Jesus) should be forever blotted out.”
Thanks
- Status