Do Muslims Really Know Who God Is ?

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The meek shall inherit the earth

Part 2
The Babylonians were followed by the Persians, the Greeks, the Romans, the Muslims and finally the British General Allenby, who ousted the Ottoman Turks in 1918. When Allenby approached Haifa, in the Galilee, he received a wire from the British Foreign Office instructing him to see to the safety of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, who was in as much danger from His fiendish brothers as He was from the Turkish Jamal Pasha , who had vowed to crucify Him. After taking the city, Allenby replied “Notify the world that Abdu’l-Baha is safe.” This is an example of what the Psalmist and Shepherd King meant when he said “Yet a little while, and the wicked will be no more.” (37:10)

The British had also been instrumental in coercing the Turks to pass an edict of Toleration, which permitted the Jews to practice their religion and settle in Palestine, which they did in increasing numbers, after 1844. This Edict was on 1 Nísan, 21 March, 1844, exactly 2300 years after the Edict to build the Second Temple was issued by Artaxerxes, as mentioned in Ezra 7. Herein is another prophecy, from Lord Jesus Himself, pointing to the “end of the abomination that makes desolate.”

**When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand). **(Matthew 24:15)
Jesus refers to the following prophecy in Daniel 8:13-14: … **Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. **
It isn’t just a matter of Christians or Jews controlling the land again. It is God’s command that mankind live together peaceably. Are we not weary of wars? Isn’t the Golden Rule in every Faith? What will it take to weld mankind together? What is supposed to happen when the Jews return? Aren’t we expecting the Holy One of Israel to preside over the nations, and separate them and judge them, as He promised? Wouldn’t it be better to obey than to suffer? Do we expect the same body of the Nazarene to appear again?
Be assured the same fiery Spirit will suffice.

**“Call out to Zion, O Carmel, and announce the joyful tidings: He that was hidden from mortal eyes is come! His all-conquering sovereignty is manifest; His all-encompassing splendour is revealed. Beware lest thou hesitate or halt…” **(Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 4)
**We have, of old, uttered these words: Spread thy skirt, O Jerusalem! Ponder this in your hearts, O people of Bahá, and render thanks unto your Lord, the Expounder, the Most Manifest. **(Bahá’u’lláh, GWB, p. 117)

“Revile ye not one another. We, verily, have come to unite and weld together all that dwell on earth. Unto this beareth witness what the ocean of Mine utterance hath revealed amongst men, and yet most of the people have gone astray. If anyone revile you, or trouble touch you, in the path of God, be patient, and put your trust in Him Who heareth, Who seeth. He, in truth, witnesseth, and perceiveth, and doeth what He pleaseth, through the power of His sovereignty. He, verily, is the Lord of strength, and of might. In the Book of God, the Mighty, the Great, ye have been forbidden to engage in contention and conflict. Lay fast hold on whatever will profit you, and profit the peoples of the world.
Thus commandeth you the King of Eternity, Who is manifest in His Most Great Name. He, verily, is the Ordainer, the All-Wise.”
(Bahá’u’lláh, Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p. 24)

The following day when we attained (Bahá’u’lláh’s) presence, He turned His face to me and addressed the following words to me with infinite charm and loving kindness. He said: **‘If the kings and rulers of the world had embraced the Faith in this day, you people could never have found an entry into this exalted Court. You could never have had the opportunity to attain Our presence, nor could you ever have acquired the privilege of hearing the words of the Lord of Mankind. Of course, the time will come when the kings and rulers of the world will become believers, and the Cause of God will be glorified outwardly. But this will happen after the meek and the lowly ones of the earth have won this inestimable bounty.’ **[These are not to be taken as the exact words which Bahá’u’lláh spoke on that occasion.] (Adib Taherzadeh, The Revelation of Baha’u’llah v 3, p. 161)
 
Davidmark,

You can talk all you want…what you think of Jesus is irrelevant. Cos ultimately Jesus is the one who will be sending you to Hades, and not the other way around.

What the Bible thinks of you however is of great significance.

According to fistmode’s quote of 1 John 2:22 - YOU ARE A FOLLOWER OF A LIAR.

**1 John 2:21-23 22 Who is the Liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the Antichrist—he denies the Father(God) and the Son(Jesus). 23 No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

**

Who rejects the deity of Jesus? - Islam

Can Babwhateverlah or muhammad be prophets? - NO, the last prophet was John the Baptist. (See Luke 16:16)

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If God told Moses that His name was to be Yahweh for all time and to all people, why did Allah not use that name?
 
Hey Ralph.

I do not understand Yahweh to be a name. I have never in my life referred to God as Yahweh. I don’t think Jews do either. Anyway, I already cited the Catholic Encyclopedia, written in 1913 to show the Catholic position which acknowledges that the Muslims worship the Creator God. Even if you are among those Catholics who are compelled to question the teachings of Vatican II, there is a precedent for this particular teaching which appears in a document that is seldom impugned for liberalism. If you do accept Vatican II, Lumen Gentium #16 briefly repeats what is dealt with more thoroughly in the Encyclopedia:
But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohamedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind.
This is the basis, the foundation for any discussion between followers of the Koran and Catholics. We don’t have to try to convince them that Allah isn’t God, or that they worship an idol. We aren’t condoning every precept of the Koran, but we are perceptive enough to see that the One God in which they believe is the sole Creator of all things and the sole Judge of all things. We cannot say this of the pantheists and polytheists. There are problems from our perspective with the teachings of Islam, but if we would submit to the judgment of the Catholic Church, we will not accuse them of worshipping a false god.
 
If it is revealed that the true followers of God will always refer to Him as Yahweh/Jehovah what does that say for Christ and the Apostles? They never make a reference to the Tetragrammaton. This is a bogus attack on Muslims that which if it was valid, could be fired right back at us!
 
Maybe when #841 was written, The Vatican didn’t want to “upset” islam & the muslims since the Catholic Church already knew what islam was capable to doing and what islam had done to Christianity in the past centuries.

The Church was seen it’s destruction with the rise of islam since the 7th century with conquering Christian lands.

That’s my thought!
 
This is the basis, the foundation for any discussion between followers of the Koran and Catholics. We don’t have to try to convince them that Allah isn’t God, or that they worship an idol. We aren’t condoning every precept of the Koran, but we are perceptive enough to see that the One God in which they believe is the sole Creator of all things and the sole Judge of all things. We cannot say this of the pantheists and polytheists. There are problems from our perspective with the teachings of Islam, but if we would submit to the judgment of the Catholic Church, we will not accuse them of worshipping a false god.
Arghhhh…hold me back, Jakasaki! Hold me back! 😃

Seriously, though…CCC 841 is the foundation of much confusion among Catholics as to who or what God is and who or what God is not. Jesus says those who have seen Him have seen the Father, and also that those who deny Him will be denied before the Father. Islam sees not Jesus Christ, the Savior of the world who is the only begotten Son of the Father, of one substance/essence with Him. Instead they have “Isa” who brought a book that nobody can seem to find called the “Injil” (or maybe not a book…Islam can’t agree on this either!), who exalts in Muhammad’s phony-bologna restoration of the “corrupted” worship of the Christians and the Jews (by breaking the crosses and killing the pigs, blahblahblah) who is below Muhammad in stature and rank as a prophet, etc. On what basis can we say that Muslims are free to reject Jesus Christ when they, by doing so, are implicitly rejecting the Father as well? Who is lying - Jesus Christ or Muhammad?

Muhammad is lying. CCC 841 is obfuscating, and I am never, ever, EVER worshiping Islam’s Allah, and Islam is certainly not worshiping my God, who has begotten the One who is light from light, True God from True God.
 
Arghhhh…hold me back, Jakasaki! Hold me back! 😃

Seriously, though…CCC 841 is the foundation of much confusion among Catholics as to who or what God is and who or what God is not. Jesus says those who have seen Him have seen the Father, and also that those who deny Him will be denied before the Father. Islam sees not Jesus Christ, the Savior of the world who is the only begotten Son of the Father, of one substance/essence with Him. Instead they have “Isa” who brought a book that nobody can seem to find called the “Injil” (or maybe not a book…Islam can’t agree on this either!), who exalts in Muhammad’s phony-bologna restoration of the “corrupted” worship of the Christians and the Jews (by breaking the crosses and killing the pigs, blahblahblah) who is below Muhammad in stature and rank as a prophet, etc. On what basis can we say that Muslims are free to reject Jesus Christ when they, by doing so, are implicitly rejecting the Father as well? Who is lying - Jesus Christ or Muhammad?

Muhammad is lying. CCC 841 is obfuscating, and I am never, ever, EVER worshiping Islam’s Allah, and Islam is certainly not worshiping my God, who has begotten the One who is light from light, True God from True God.
I have a funny feeling DZ that 841 will be up for discussion many a times. I suggest in the future, strap your self to your chair while browsing & reading… 😃

Perhaps a cocktail is in order… I’ll join you!
 
Hey Ralph.

I do not understand Yahweh to be a name. I have never in my life referred to God as Yahweh. I don’t think Jews do either. Anyway, I already cited the Catholic Encyclopedia, written in 1913 to show the Catholic position which acknowledges that the Muslims worship the Creator God. Even if you are among those Catholics who are compelled to question the teachings of Vatican II, there is a precedent for this particular teaching which appears in a document that is seldom impugned for liberalism. If you do accept Vatican II, Lumen Gentium #16 briefly repeats what is dealt with more thoroughly in the Encyclopedia:

This is the basis, the foundation for any discussion between followers of the Koran and Catholics. We don’t have to try to convince them that Allah isn’t God, or that they worship an idol. We aren’t condoning every precept of the Koran, but we are perceptive enough to see that the One God in which they believe is the sole Creator of all things and the sole Judge of all things. We cannot say this of the pantheists and polytheists. There are problems from our perspective with the teachings of Islam, but if we would submit to the judgment of the Catholic Church, we will not accuse them of worshipping a false god.
Actually, I have no issues with anything the Church teaches. My point is that the understanding of God that Muslims have is flawed, limited, and at times, very wrong. It leads me to think that while they intend and profess to worship God (which we say), their faith is a corrupt and man-made constructed that does more damage than good.

The fact that Allah never used Yahweh is another example of it. Just like Allah telling Muhammed that Christians worship Mary and Jesus did not die on the cross
 
The fact that Allah never used Yahweh is another example of it. Just like Allah telling Muhammed that Christians worship Mary and Jesus did not die on the cross
And the Trinity is three gods, which it clearly is not (in fact, several ecumenical councils previous to Mohammad’s life had outlined that fact).
 
And the Trinity is three gods, which it clearly is not (in fact, several ecumenical councils previous to Mohammad’s life had outlined that fact).
Yep. It just seems too clear that Muhammed intended to set up a faith system loosly based on the two Monotheistic faiths that had a strongly pro-Arab feel to it. The things he got wrong all fall into heretical teachings common to the area and era.

It does not mean that they do not intend and profess to worship God. IT does mean that Muhammed’s Allah is a poor representation of the Truth
 
Yep. It just seems too clear that Muhammed intended to set up a faith system loosly based on the two Monotheistic faiths that had a strongly pro-Arab feel to it. The things he got wrong all fall into heretical teachings common to the area and era.

It does not mean that they do not intend and profess to worship God. IT does mean that Muhammed’s Allah is a poor representation of the Truth
Seemingly, but not. Imagery but not the source.

That’s why God’s number is 7, Satan’s number is 6.
That’s why God said Adam will surely die, but Satan said…‘not surely’

That’s how people end up getting deceived and worshipping the WRONG deity.

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

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Hey Ralph.

I do not understand Yahweh to be a name. I have never in my life referred to God as Yahweh. I don’t think Jews do either.
I missed this part. You won’t hear Jews call him that. Yahweh is a mistranslation of the unutterable. The actual word has no vowels in it. Catholics were recently told to not use it, either. That used to be the rule.

Typically, the word is replaced with “The LORD,” but it literally means “I AM” or “I AM WHO AM.”

That is not as important as the fact that Muhammed did not have Allah use it.
 
I missed this part. You won’t hear Jews call him that. Yahweh is a mistranslation of the unutterable. The actual word has no vowels in it. Catholics were recently told to not use it, either. That used to be the rule.

Typically, the word is replaced with “The LORD,” but it literally means “I AM” or “I AM WHO AM.”

That is not as important as the fact that Muhammed did not have Allah use it.
Utterable or not…God used it as His Name.
 
Swariffin, many people also believe there is an Omnipotent God, some of them even burn human sacrifices to it even to this day in the remotest part of Asia. Do you think they are reaching God or God is reaching out to them???

What does the Bible teach us? What is enough? To know God and His Only Begotten Son, Jesus.
Nobody, including the Christian, will ever reach God by his/her own power, brother. If it happens, it must be that God is reaching him/her. To God, He can reach anybody He likes. I will not talk about the bible, since this thread is talking about the Muslims and God.
 
I think Swariffin’s observation is a good one. They know that there IS a God, But I personally do not think that they worship Him, and I think that the second Vatican council is wrong if that is where this idea was first advanced (and if advanced elsewhere first, then it was wrong then too, wherever it was).

Muhammad may have talked a good game about “my Lord and your Lord” when trying to entice non-Muslims to join him, but Jesus Christ, who is God, says that those who deny Him will be denied before the Father (Matthew 10:33), and it is the Father who modern Muslim apologists and their misguided Catholic ecumenical counterparts claim that Muslims recognize in their “Allah”. I do not believe this, either.
We can say anything based on our standard, brother. But, with respect to their standard, the Muslims do worship God. Whether or not they can really reach God is none of our business. I think we can hope that God would have mercy on them, and I am sure, God does. As long as they met the criteria.
 
Part 3

Jesus, Islam, Christanity


Deity of Jesus was not the invention of Christians. Let us examine the following verses
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.(Immanuel means God with us)
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Jews are very particular in worshipping the God of Abraham the only one God. So it is natural that Jews should have rejected these verses because a virgin born male child is called Immanuel (God with us), the mighty God and everlasting Father. Blasphemy can be accused of prophet Isaiah. But they never dared to change them or delete them for the fear of corrupting the scripture. Even the recent find of famous Dead sea scrolls (dating back to before Christ) verify that the verses never altered by anyone anywhere.

So Jesus is the Word of God (Son of God) incarnated in flesh as Son of Virgin Mary, Jesus Christ. He became perfect sacrifice for the world so that by his sacrificial blood all humanity can be saved by accepting Him as redeemer, not by deeds, but by faith in Him.

He could live back to life because he fulfilled the laws of Old Testament. He gave his life once and took it back by resurrection. Being sinless death could not contain him. The Mosaic Law says those who fulfill the laws can live by it. Animal sacrifices were ordained only to remind the mankind of the requirement of shedding of blood for redemption of sin – and of the perfect sacrifice of a perfect man in place of imperfect human Adam and his generations. Why God had to incarnate as human? Because there only one thing in the world which is unchangeable in character – that is God – only God could out live the temptation of Satan.

Yes Jesus even being the personality of God left all the divinity and became a mere man to be equivalent to mankind. Suffered, felt, prayed, and lived as a perfect human showing obedience to Father in heaven even to death on cross. He was the only person in the history of the world who was judged as innocent 3 times in a row and still got punished by death for his innocence by the same Court. If the God in heaven being the Judge of the world would have acted at that time – world would have destroyed (along with the Romans the best civilization of the world at that time with the profound pride of their justice system – they called others Barbarians), (along with Jews who had scriptures to recognize this person, and was fiercely proud that they are children of God) – but God kept quiet to give Jesus as sacrifice to redeem the World.

Jews knew what exactly is meant by the term Son of man (it is same as saying incarnation of God as human) – as Son of God – that is why they killed him for making himself equal to God and thus accusing blasphemy.

There are some Muslims asking how come if God incarnated as Human how then the God can be in heaven at the same time – thus denying the fact of incarnation.

May I put one more example to understand this aspect comparing with the computer game?

For example if we want to do a car race we can get a real car and do it in real time in real world of our existence or get into a computer game enjoy simulated experience in a cyber world. There will be a car and an image too for us, other cars, and persons. There are laws defined in that cyber world. We are to follow the laws defined there to win the race. If you fail that standards you have start again all over. While we being outside the cyber world will be controlling all the actions of our image. The failures, successes and emotions will be directly transferred to us.

Thus God let the Word of God (son)being born as Jesus as his image among men in our world of existence and lived in Him and did the act of salvation by fulfilling the laws set for us in this world while at the same time existing Heaven outside our world of existence.

This is an explanation but not theology. This is given to understand the situation. Hope these would find helpful for anyone in pursuit of Truth and Jesus.

God Bless
Dear brother, can you explain what is “Marthoma”? Or perhaps you can link me to a good source of yours to introduce Marthoma to me.
 
Question for Christians, why taking on a human nature made Jesus unable to know the hour ? why wasn’t he also unable to do other things like healing, knowing what in someone’s heart, prophesying, knowing what would happen to him and to others in the future…etc
 
Question for Christians, why taking on a human nature made Jesus unable to know the hour ? why wasn’t he also unable to do other things like healing, knowing what in someone’s heart, prophesying, knowing what would happen to him and to others in the future…etc
It had nothing to do with his human nature. It had to do with who Jesus is. Jesus is the Son, the Redeemer. All of the miracles that you see are connected to that role.

It is the Father, the Creator, that determines the end. He who spoke and it was is the one who decides when it is over
 
I missed this part. You won’t hear Jews call him that. Yahweh is a mistranslation of the unutterable. The actual word has no vowels in it. Catholics were recently told to not use it, either. That used to be the rule.

Typically, the word is replaced with “The LORD,” but it literally means “I AM” or “I AM WHO AM.”

That is not as important as the fact that Muhammed did not have Allah use it.
Exodus 3:15 God also said to Moses, "Say this to the Israelites: Yahweh, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever; this is how I am to be remembered in every generation.

(not Allah)
 
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