Do Muslims Worship the Same God as Catholics?

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freesoulhope said:
They say this in the quran? If so, can you please provide me with some evidence?
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Koran at-tavba 009: 005 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

The same chapter:

009:029 **Fight against **such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.

🙂 I hope someone will show me similar verses from the OT!
 
Angelos said:
Koran at-tavba 009: 005 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

The same chapter:

009:029 **Fight against **such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.

🙂 I hope someone will show me similar verses from the OT!
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Do all Muslims accept that this should be taken as read?
 
Maybe, God forbid, people could actually do a bit of research and bother to actually read the whole Sura and find out what war it was referring to.
 
El_Paulo said:
Do all Muslims accept that this should be taken as read?
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No matter how some Muslims pervert the meaning of this verse due to their bewilderment and feeling of shame - as they distort many other verses in their Scripture - it is clear that this verse is a direct command from the Allah of Mohammed to fight all the unbelievers! The verse evidently has no restriction on the time or place of the religious war as well as the group of unbelievers. Thus, this is a verse of generalization, disregarding a specific occasion or context!

In accordance with this, many Islamic empires in the past (like Ottomans) read this verse before going to battle with Christians (called infidels because they do not follow the so-called true religion Islam!) Even history gives testimony against those Muslims striving to save faces 😃

Peace,
Angelos N (ex-Muslim)
 
Angelos said:
No matter how some Muslims pervert the meaning of this verse due to their bewilderment and feeling of shame - as they distort many other verses in their Scripture - it is clear that this verse is a direct command from the Allah of Mohammed to fight all the unbelievers! The verse evidently has no restriction on the time or place of the religious war as well as the group of unbelievers. Thus, this is a verse of generalization, disregarding a specific occasion or context!

In accordance with this, many Islamic empires in the past (like Ottomans) read this verse before going to battle with Christians (called infidels because they do not follow the so-called true religion Islam!) Even history gives testimony against those Muslims striving to save faces 😃

Peace,
Angelos N (ex-Muslim)
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Thankyou for your response (as an ex-Muslim, I’m sure you have some interesting insights about this). In addition, I would like to ask how our friend, Kadaveri, would interpret this scripture? Are you in agreement? Do all Islamic scholars agree with this interpretation?
 
melbourne_guy said:
I rarely stick up for muslims in a debate but this is absolutely ridiculous!! Why on earth do catholics attack the violence in the quran, its just an EXTREMELY stupid way of debating. Have none of you people ever read the old testament! Its full of violence.
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Do Catholics live by that violence?
melbourne_guy said:
If you read arguments between muslims and catholics defending the violence in their holy books theres barely any difference, there just worded differently.

Catholics should think twice befor going down the ‘your Gods a killer’ path because its hypocritical.
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A difference being that Moslems have no “New Koran” abrogating any violence
 
freesoulhope said:
It depends on what the religion teaches. Although i am convinced that Muhammad is a false prophet, nobody on this forum has convinced me that the koran its self teaches suicide bombing anymore so then the bible. What i see, is people, who have a political agenda to rule the world economicaly and socaily, abusing religions; using them as a justification for violence and war. A twist of the word here and there, then walla!
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Well as there were no bombs around in the NT, or Koran, I’m not surprised. And the term ‘suicide’ bomber is misleading anyway, because they’re not committing ‘suicide’ which is condemned in the Koran, but achieving Martyrdom, which is supported.

The Christian idea of martyrdom is to lay your life down for your faith or, your brother.

The Islamic idea is to do these, with the option of dying as you’re killing the enemy of Islam.

There’s a vast difference then between a Christian who stood before the lions and kept his faith, to a Moslem that leaps into a restaurant and mows down the customers.
freesoulhope said:
The American Goverment uses Christianity as a hoodwink to inspire and influence the minds of a largly Christian country; nobody seems to be worried about them when they bomb other countrys for so called humaniterian reasons. I find that quite frightening.
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I have no disagreement that neo-cons use Christians to promote un-Christian practices. This is not the fault of ‘Christianity’ however.
 
Milliardo said:
I said it once, and I’ll say it again–Muslims profess to worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, so yes they do worship the same God we do. Where we do not agree is what the nature of God is.
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So anyone who claims to do so, is doing so? :confused:
 
El_Paulo said:
Thankyou for your response (as an ex-Muslim, I’m sure you have some interesting insights about this). In addition, I would like to ask how our friend, Kadaveri, would interpret this scripture? Are you in agreement? Do all Islamic scholars agree with this interpretation?
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That’s a false challenge. Not all have to agree.
 
Montalban said:
I have no disagreement that neo-cons use Christians to promote un-Christian practices. This is not the fault of ‘Christianity’ however.
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I don’t know, I think it’s me, but I have a really, really hard time with this, it seems to be the root of my dilemma.

If Christianity isn’t responsible for bad behavior of other Christians, then moderate Moslems have the same arguement, eh? I sometimes dislike Christians and the things they… we do more because I’m one of them.

It’s always someone else doing the bad stuff, and theres nothing we can do about it.

I don’t mean or want to start an arguement, it’s just something that’s bothering me.
 
Mr.Bee said:
I don’t know, I think it’s me, but I have a really, really hard time with this, it seems to be the root of my dilemma.

If Christianity isn’t responsible for bad behavior of other Christians, then moderate Moslems have the same arguement, eh? I sometimes dislike Christians and the things they… we do more because I’m one of them.

It’s always someone else doing the bad stuff, and theres nothing we can do about it.

I don’t mean or want to start an arguement, it’s just something that’s bothering me.
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It’s not the same as each other. Christainity promotes goodness, people do good because of this. Islam promotes evil. People do go in spite of it.

It’s Islam that condemns women if they don’t have sex with their husbands on demand, not Christianity. and so on
 
Montalban said:
It’s not the same as each other. Christainity promotes goodness, people do good because of this. Islam promotes evil. People do go in spite of it.

It’s Islam that condemns women if they don’t have sex with their husbands on demand, not Christianity. and so on
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Christianity teaches that the body of each spouse belongs to the other (1 Cor 7:4), so we’re just a bit less upfront about it.😛

This topic is silly. Muslims worship our God and they share similar moral beliefs to us in many ways, so by no means does Islam promote evil in the way Satanism would. In fact, from a Muslim standpoint, it is we who promote homosexuality, abortion, promiscuity and such. That is of course incorrect, for that is not Christian belief, but it sure looks that way to Muslims. And do you pray five times a day every day? Do you prostrate in worship of our God? We Christians would do well if we beefed up on our prayer and relearned true reverence. Having said that, I’m no fan of Islam, and I don’t think anyone buys this PC “Religion of Peace” nonsense, but Islam is a corruption of Christianity, and if we criticise it irrationally, we criticise ourselves. That makes us look, quite frankly, stupid.
 
junk said:
Christianity teaches that the body of each spouse belongs to the other (1 Cor 7:4), so we’re just a bit less upfront about it.
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That’s at worse that we should be there for each other, not that one is there for the pleasure of the other’s demands.

… “The prophet of Allah said: When a man calls his wife to satisfy his desire, let her come to him though she is occupied at the oven.” Mishkat al-Masabih, English translation, Book I, Section ‘Duties of husband and wife’, Hadith No. 61. Not only that, she is admonished for not doing so; “The prophet said: ‘When a man calls his wife to bed and she does not come, the husband spends the night being angry with her, and the angels curse her until morning. The one who is in heaven is displeased with her until the husband is pleased with her.’”(Sahih hadith, chapter 558).
junk said:
This topic is silly.
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With an ironic user-name!
junk said:
Muslims worship our God and they share similar moral beliefs to us in many ways, so by no means does Islam promote evil in the way Satanism would. In fact, from a Muslim standpoint, it is we who promote homosexuality, abortion, promiscuity and such. That is of course incorrect, for that is not Christian belief, but it sure looks that way to Muslims. And do you pray five times a day every day? Do you prostrate in worship of our God? We Christians would do well if we beefed up on our prayer and relearned true reverence. Having said that, I’m no fan of Islam, and I don’t think anyone buys this PC “Religion of Peace” nonsense, but Islam is a corruption of Christianity, and if we criticise it irrationally, we criticise ourselves. That makes us look, quite frankly, stupid.
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That’s strange! You’re arguing that they’ve perverted Christianity and it’s our fault if we criticise that.
 
El_Paulo said:
With respect, my question was directed at Kadaveri.
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With respect it’s still a false challenge… see below
El_Paulo said:
…although, I would ask what you mean by, “not all have to agree”.
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You ask 100 people what it is in front of you. 99 say it’s a chair. One says it’s an elephant.

The fact that not everyone agreed does not mean you can’t know what it is in front of you. Thus not all Moslems have to agree to something for it to be considered Islamic
 
Montalban said:
With an ironic user-name!
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What a lovely ad hominem! And so sarcastic too! Oh, I’m so impressed by your maturity and ever so grateful for your charity! 🙂
That’s strange! You’re arguing that they’ve perverted Christianity and it’s our fault if we criticise that.
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Keep going… Finish the sentence.

I R R A T I O N A L L Y

I wasn’t levelling that criticism at you specifically, but some people on this thread have made arguments that undermine both Islam and Christianity. That’s the thing that bothers me. And your sarcasm.
 
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