Do non-catholic sacramentals have any value?

[peary1]

In other words, valid sacraments give God’s grace and sacramentals are more of a petition or action done to receive God’s grace?

Why are Orthodox sacraments and sacramentals valid while protestant ones are not? The only valid protestant sacrament is the trinitarian baptism. There marriages count as marriages but why aren’t they sacraments as well?

Because valid baptism is instituted by God, and marriage is also formed by God for this world. Each has sanctifying grace for the recipients. They are sacraments, although some protestant churches do not consider them as such.

 

[FrDavid96]

Because valid baptism is instituted by God, and marriage is also formed by God for this world. Each has sanctifying grace for the recipients. They are sacraments, although some protestant churches do not consider them as such.

Keep in mind though that a Protestant marriage has the potential to be a Sacrament. It’s not the case that all Protestant marriages are sacraments.

An obvious example: Bride and groom are both divorced (no annulment of course, and previous spouses are still living). Since both parties are still bound by their first marriages, the current marriage can’t be a Sacrament–even though they are both Protestant and exchange vows before a Protestant minister using the ritual of that ecclesial community.

 

[peary1]

Keep in mind though that a Protestant marriage has the potential to be a Sacrament. It’s not the case that all Protestant marriages are sacraments.

An obvious example: Bride and groom are both divorced (no annulment of course, and previous spouses are still living). Since both parties are still bound by their first marriages, the current marriage can’t be a Sacrament–even though they are both Protestant and exchange vows before a Protestant minister using the ritual of that ecclesial community.

I didn’t even think of divorce! Thanks.

 

[Newbie2]

What’s missing in this thread is the definition of “value” in the title. Define “value”.

If a “non-Catholic sacramental” helps one think or act as Christ would have one think or act, is there not some “value” in such a “non-Catholic sacramental”?

 

[FrDavid96]

What’s missing in this thread is the definition of “value” in the title. Define “value”.

If a “non-Catholic sacramental” helps one think or act as Christ would have one think or act, is there not some “value” in such a “non-Catholic sacramental”?

I think that’s just what the OP was getting at

Non-Catholic trinitarian baptisms have the same grace as on performed in the Church. Can non-catholic blessed Holy water/oil bare the same or equivocal “power”? I think that hte non-catholic sacramentals are not technically sacramentals nor do they bare that full grace, however they are still acts of faith and God can still give his grace.

The OP knows that there will be some value in the prayers being said by somone (“they are still acts of faith”), but is questioning whether or not the attempted-blessing itself would have any value ("…bear the same or equivocal ‘power’ ").

 

[Bluegoat]

Keep in mind though that a Protestant marriage has the potential to be a Sacrament. It’s not the case that all Protestant marriages are sacraments.

An obvious example: Bride and groom are both divorced (no annulment of course, and previous spouses are still living). Since both parties are still bound by their first marriages, the current marriage can’t be a Sacrament–even though they are both Protestant and exchange vows before a Protestant minister using the ritual of that ecclesial community.

This is pretty much the same as for a Catholic marriage though, I would say. If there was some unknown impediment, that marriage would also not be a sacrament, according to the Catholic understanding. I think it would be fair to say in the Catholic understanding any marriage between baptized Christians ought to be a sacrament, in the same way any Baptism ought to be. But in both cases they could be done in an invalid way.

 

[FrDavid96]

This is pretty much the same as for a Catholic marriage though, I would say. If there was some unknown impediment, that marriage would also not be a sacrament, according to the Catholic understanding. I think it would be fair to say in the Catholic understanding any marriage between baptized Christians ought to be a sacrament, in the same way any Baptism ought to be. But in both cases they could be done in an invalid way.

It’s not quite the same. In the Church, any attempt at marriage which would be invalid in some obvious way is forbidden to occur in the first place. On the other hand, in Protestant ecclesial communities, the rules of those communities often permit (or do not prohibit) attempts at marriage which are obviously invalid.

 

[Bluegoat]

It’s not quite the same. In the Church, any attempt at marriage which would be invalid in some obvious way is forbidden to occur in the first place. On the other hand, in Protestant ecclesial communities, the rules of those communities often permit (or do not prohibit) attempts at marriage which are obviously invalid.

I understand what you are saying and obvious is the key word. But this is a matter of practice I think rather than of principle.

 

[Digitonomy]

I have heard that the sign of the cross is a sacramental. If true, it seems that this would be something available equally to non-Catholics.

Also, I’m curious whether a rosary is considered a sacramental in and of itself, or if only those rosaries that are blessed are sacramentals.

 

[FrDavid96]

I have heard that the sign of the cross is a sacramental. If true, it seems that this would be something available equally to non-Catholics.

Also, I’m curious whether a rosary is considered a sacramental in and of itself, or if only those rosaries that are blessed are sacramentals.

You know, a few weeks ago, I would have agreed entirely with that. But I’ve since read the Church’s introduction to Sacramentals in the Roman Ritual, and found it enlightening. Here’s the text again:

And why are such simple things like the sacramentals so efficacious in the life of grace? Because their efficacy is dependent on the power of the Church’s impetration, and not solely on the devotion of the subject who uses them. We say that the sacraments work “ex opere operato,” that is, in virtue of the outward signs that are posited. On the other hand, we are accustomed to hear that the sacramentals work “ex opere operantis,” which would mean in virtue of the intensity of devotion in those who use them. Yet this is only part of the truth. The thing is cast in an altogether different light when it is stated in full precision, namely, that the sacramentals work “ex opere operantis Ecclesiae,” which means that their efficacy is in first place dependent on the power of the Church’s intercession, and only secondly on the devout dispositions of the subject concerned.

The emphasis here is pretty clear: the sacramentals work “ex opere operantis Ecclesiae.”

So a sacramental which occurs outside the Church would have less efficacy than one that has as its basis the “work of the Church.” Are sacramentals available to non-Catholics? Of course yes. Can they receive Graces from them? Again, of course yes. But sacramentals which “occur” outside the Church have less efficacy.

…or perhaps we could say “a different emphasis”…

This reminds me of something from the secular world. I recall hearing a discussion about US flags being made in Communist China. One person was outraged at the idea (as was I, at first). But the other person presented the viewpoint that when someone under the communist yoke makes an American flag, that person is reminded of the fact that freedom does exist in the world, and that there is hope. I think we can apply a similar logic to sacramentals. When those outside the Church use sacramentals, they are brought closer to Communion with the Church.

As I see it, the Grace which is imparted to our separated brethren, through their use of sacramentals, is first and foremost the Grace to come closer to the Church.

For the last part, yes a rosary is a sacramental even if it isn’t blessed, although rosaries should be blessed.