Do Non-Catholics go to Heaven?

[Mark1970]

One priest I respect put it this way:
Heaven includes one free Church membership.

A priest I know said that although there are only Catholics in heaven, it is possible for people who appear not to be Catholics to become part of the Catholic Church in ways that aren’t immediately obvious to us. Only God would know how this is possible. But God instituted the Church and the Sacraments for our benefit, not because God needs them, so He can act outside the Church and the Sacraments if necessary. How and when He does that is God’s judgement-call, not ours. And it doesn’t stop the Catholic Church from being the normal way of trying to get to heaven, so we as Catholics still need to try to get as many people into the Church as possible.

 

[Lui]

I hope that Amy Winehouse made it to Heaven even if she wasn’t a Catholic:bighanky:

RIP

 

[Kristin234]

Did you study theology? I’m just curious because you seem to know better than all the priests I talked to.
As far as I know The Bible DOES tell us what happens to those who never heard of the gospel.

No I didn’t. I like to study things on my free time but I never took an actual class.

 

[Anna_Scott]

. . . . Jesus or rather Yeshua or the Son of God was an Essene, obviously He was not a pharacee or Saducee and many of the early Christians were Essenes. . .

theyuha,

I’ve done some reading on this, and a few scholars claim Jesus was an Essene, Bart Ehrman being one of them; but many scholars disagree with this assumption.

Peace,
Anna

 

[VivaCristoRey27]

It is a dogma of the Faith that “Outside the Church, there is no salvation” (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus). This was explicitly defined by Pope Eugene IV as meaning:
Council of Florence:

It [the Church] firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart “into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels” [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.

Now, what does that mean? It means exactly what it says, someone who is not a part of Christ’s Church – that is, the Catholic Church – cannot be saved and will be damned.

Now, what about our poor Protestant sister here? Does this mean that she cannot be saved? No. It means that she will be damned “unless before the end of [her] life, [she] has been added to the flock”.

But don’t forget that sinners also go to Hell. The Church teaches dogmatically that if anyone dies with the stain of mortal sin on their soul, they will descend immediately to hell for all eternity.

St. Paul says explicitly:
1Cor 6:9-10:

Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor the effeminate, nor liers with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners, shall possess the kingdom of God.

Now raise your hand if you have ever committed any of those sins. As someone who is guilty of those sins, you shall not possess the kingdom of God. BUT what does St. Paul go on to say?

And such some of you were; but you are washed, but you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the Spirit of our God.

If we have committed these, or any other mortal sins, but then subsequently been baptized or gone to Confession (sometimes called “the second baptism” because it restores baptismal innocence), then we have been washed with the Blood of Our Lord and we will be saved. If no murderer was saved, how else would St. Paul become a saint, he who viciously persecuted the Church, sending many to be executed and even personally presided over the stoning of St. Stephen the Protomartyr! If no fornicator was saved, how is it that St. Augustine became a saint? Nearly all of the saints (who lived to the age of reason), save for Our Lady and St. John the Baptist, committed mortal sins and yet there they are – shining examples for us to follow, not in their sins of course, but in seeking the mercy of God. After all, he who is a great sinner and converts has a greater claim to God’s mercy (“And where sin abounded, grace did more abound.” ~ Rom 5:20; also cf. the parables of the Prodigal Son and the Lost Sheep, etc.)

God is infinitely merciful and gives His mercy to the contrite, not to those who obstinately persist in their sin. With regards to the sin of heresy, there are two forms – formal and material. A material heretic is someone who believes something contrary to the Faith, a formal heretic (a heretic properly so called) does so obstinately.

The New Code of Canon Law defines “heresy” as:
1983 CIC #751:

Heresy is the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after the reception of baptism of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith.

If someone is not obstinate in their denial of some aspect of the Catholic Faith, they are not a formal heretic but merely a material one. As St. Augustine says,
St. Augustine:

The Apostle Paul has said: “A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject, knowing that he that is such is subverted and sins, being condemned of himself.” [Tit. 3:10-11] But though the doctrine which men hold be false and perverse, if they do not maintain it with passionate obstinacy, especially when they have not devised it by the rashness of their own presumption, but have accepted it from parents who had been misguided and had fallen into error, and if they are with anxiety seeking the truth, and are prepared to be set right when they have found it, such men are not to be counted heretics.

Therefore, we can see that someone is not to be accounted as a heretic simply because they believe some heresy or belong to some organization that believes some heresy (that is, we cannot assume that any given Protestant knows and accepts, at least explicitly, all the teachings of their particular denomination). In fact, because of the position of Protestantism today and the relative weakness of the members of the Magisterium in teaching the Catholic Faith, we can say with a relative certainty that the vast majority of Protestants are not formal heretics but merely material ones. The same would go for those in the Eastern or Oriental Orthodox Churches, they (generally speaking) are not personally guilty of the sin of schism even though they adhere to the schism.

(continued… 1/2)

 

[VivaCristoRey27]

(2/2)

Elsewhere, St. Augustine writes:
St. Augustine:

If, Honoratus, a heretic, and a man trusting heretics seemed to me one and the same, I should judge it my duty to remain silent both in tongue and pen in this matter. But now, whereas there is a very great difference between these two: forasmuch as he, in my opinion, is an heretic, who, for the sake of some temporal advantage, and chiefly for the sake of his own glory and pre-eminence, either gives birth to, or follows, false and new opinions; but he, who trusts men of this kind, is a man deceived by a certain imagination of truth and piety.

Those who started the various Protestant denominations, at least in the first generation – men like Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, Cranmer, etc. – were heresiarchs (founders of heresies). But those who believed their teachings, especially now that they have become ingrained in certain cultures and ways of thinking, are simply duped.

Now, not being guilty of a particular sin doesn’t mean that one is saved. For instance, one could commit fornication but not murder and still go to Hell. They are not saved on the basis of the fact that they didn’t kill anyone. So how can a non-Catholic be saved? Well, the most explicit way is for them to convert, become a Catholic and live a holy life. But one can also convert on their deathbed (usually by a special grace from God, it is rare that an obstinate sinner suddenly feels contrite even when they are dying), call for a priest and receive baptism or absolution (through confession or extreme unction). But what if there is no priest available? Then what? Well, what do we do as Catholics? We pray continually for the grace of the Sacraments at our death ("… pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death") so that we would resist the devils who will come to attack us in our last moments, trying to convince us to despair of God’s mercy.

But not everyone has the blessing of receiving the Sacraments on their deathbed. That is one reason we cultivate a habit of contrition, by praying the Act of Contrition not just in Confession but daily. In Confession, we need only imperfect contrition – that is, it still can be motivated by a fear of Hell and desire for Heaven. But truly perfect contrition – being sorry simply because it offends God and not thinking of ourselves at all – is hard to come by, and indeed, the product of grace. Nevertheless, we seek to be detached from all sins, vices and everything that goes against God because, in the end, God is what remains when this world fades to black. Thus a Protestant could still receive that grace in order to be sorry for all their sins, even with regards to heresy, and therefore be converted by the mercy of Our Loving Father who never gives a stone when His children ask for bread. Therefore, even on their deathbed, a Protestant, a Jew, a Muslim, a Hindu (although I didn’t get into Baptism of Desire) or an atheist (who suddenly realizes he’s wrong), can be converted to the Catholic Faith and find salvation. As faithful Catholics who love the world and desire what God desires – “that all men be saved” (1Ti 2:4) – we must offer up our personal prayers, Rosaries, Mass intentions, Communions, sacrifices, etc. for not only the grace that we need to get to Heaven but for the conversion of the world so that we might merit the grace for others to convert and “come to the knowledge of the truth” (ibid.).

Therefore, we can affirm the fact that there is no error in Heaven – no false religions – because everyone knows the Truth and therefore is Catholic and also affirm the mercy of Our Lord who did not come to condemn the world, but to save it (cf. Jn 3:17).

 

[Sonny1954]

Not by virtue of being non-Catholic, no.
By virtue of being virtuous, of course.
What? Jesus and Mary aren’t in Heaven?

 

[Anna_Scott]

It is a dogma of the Faith that “Outside the Church, there is no salvation” (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus). This was explicitly defined by Pope Eugene IV as meaning:

Originally Posted by Council of Florence, Pope Eugene IV, “Cantate Domino”
It [the Church] firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart “into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels” [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.

Are there any exceptions?

Peace,
Anna

 

[Anna_Scott]

(2/2). . . . But one can also convert on their deathbed (usually by a special grace from God, it is rare that an obstinate sinner suddenly feels contrite even when they are dying), call for a priest and receive baptism or absolution (through confession or extreme unction). But what if there is no priest available? Then what? Well, what do we do as Catholics? We pray continually for the grace of the Sacraments at our death ("… pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death") so that we would resist the devils who will come to attack us in our last moments, trying to convince us to despair of God’s mercy.

. . . .Therefore, even on their deathbed, a Protestant, a Jew, a Muslim, a Hindu (although I didn’t get into Baptism of Desire) or an atheist (who suddenly realizes he’s wrong), can be converted to the Catholic Faith and find salvation. . . .

VivaCristoRey27,
It seems more likely that one, on their death bed, would call upon the name of Christ, acknowledging Him as the Son of God, and author of our salvation, and in true repentance ask forgiveness of their sins–rather than praying, I’m sorry I rejected the authority of the Pope and the Catholic Church; I know I cannot be saved unless I am subject to the Pope. So, please, God, make me subject to the Pope and his teachings–make me “Catholic” so I can receive salvation.

Peace,
Anna

 

[Sir_Knight]

To those that voted that only God knows – I ask the following question … Do you believe that Jesus lied to us when He promised the Church that whatever they bound on earth, would be bound in heaven?

To those that voted yes, I respectfully call your attention to the following INFALLIBLE Church Doctrines & Dogmas which MUST be accepted by the Catholic faithful as true …

• Going back in time as early as the days of the Athanasian Creed, it was taught then that “Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all to hold the Catholic faith; unless each one preserves this whole and inviolate, he will without a doubt perish in eternity.” (SOURCE: Denzinger’s Enchiridion Symbolorum; The Sources of Catholic Dogma; 30th edition, # 39)
• About 585 A.D., Pope Pelagius II infallibly stated, “If anyone, however, either suggests or believes or presumes to teach contrary to this faith, let him know that he is condemned and also anathematized (means excommunicated) according to the opinion of the same Fathers… Consider (therefore) the fact that whoever has not been in the peace and unity of the Church, cannot have the Lord. [Gal. 3:7]” (SOURCE: Denzinger’s Enchiridion Symbolorum; The Sources of Catholic Dogma; 30th edition, # 246)
• In 1208 A.D., Pope Innocent III infallibly stated, “By the heart we believe and by the mouth we confess the one Church, not of heretics but the Holy Roman, catholic, and Apostolic (Church) outside which we believe that no one is saved.” (SOURCE: D.E.S.; The Sources of Catholic Dogma; 30th edition, # 423)
• In 1215 A.D., Pope Innocent III infallibly stated, “One indeed is the universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved…” (SOURCE: D.E.S.; The Sources of Catholic Dogma; 30th edition, # 430)
• In 1302 A.D., Pope Boniface VIII infallibly stated, “With Faith urging us we are forced to believe and to hold the one, holy, Catholic Church and that, apostolic, and we firmly believe and simply confess this (Church) outside which there is no salvation nor remission of sins…” (SOURCE: D.E.S.; The Sources of Catholic Dogma; 30th edition, # 468)
• In 1302 A.D., by the power invested in him, Pope Boniface VIII infallibly stated, “…we declare, say, define, and proclaim to every human creature that they by necessity for salvation are entirely subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (SOURCE: D.E.S.; The Sources of Catholic Dogma; 30th edition, # 469)
• In 1442 A.D, Pope Eugenius IV, 1442, at the Council of Florence, reaffirmed this truth. "It firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews, and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart ‘into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels’ [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church. (SOURCE: D.E.S.; The Sources of Catholic Dogma; 30th edition, # 714)
• The same truth regarding the necessity of the Catholic Church for salvation was reaffirmed by Pope Gregory XVI in 1832 A.D.; Pope Pius IX in 1854 A.D.; Pope Pius IX in 1863 A.D.; Pope John XXIII on June 29, 1961 A.D.; Pope John Paul I, on August 27, 1978; Pope John Paul II on October 21, 1981, etc.

An infallible teaching is something officially declared to be true and no future Pope or Church Council can ever change it

 

[Anna_Scott]

. . . .*]Going back in time as early as the days of the Athanasian Creed, it was taught then that “Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all to hold the Catholic faith; unless each one preserves this whole and inviolate, he will without a doubt perish in eternity.” (SOURCE: Denzinger’s Enchiridion Symbolorum; The Sources of Catholic Dogma; 30th edition, # 39). . . .

. . . .An infallible teaching is something officially declared to be true and no future Pope or Church Council can ever change it

Sir Knight,

How do you reconcile your quotes with the Catechism of the Catholic Church?

**THE PROFESSION OF FAITH
SECTION TWO
THE PROFESSION OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH
CHAPTER THREE
I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY SPIRIT
ARTICLE 9
“I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH”

Paragraph 3. The Church Is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic**

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist."324

“Outside the Church there is no salvation”
**
846** How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337
Link: vatican.va/archive/ccc_cs…23a9p3.htm#839

Peace,
Anna

 

[KathleenGee]

The Divine grace of God is at work in every human being. We are each given our own inner temple where the Spirit of God speaks to us through our conscience.

There is such a place as hell because Christ spoke of it. It is a reality. Just as heaven is a reality.

As Roman Catholics, we risk our salvation, when having the fullness of Christ provided for us, turn our back on Him, and do not have charity, because God’s greatest attribute is His Love.

Baptism incorporates all people into the Catholic Church, into the Mystical Body of Christ.

We are all called, pagan as well, to seek the truth. That is our life long work until we come to Him. Any parent knows that passing on the faith in these times to our children does not come automatically. Many times it is very hard, and it is not on our time table when they become legal adults.

We cannot look at people in isolation. We have to look at others in isolation who do not know Christ. We have to see them as seeking truth as everyone else, and also needing our witness of Christ and our prayers and fasting.

So yes, as Catholics we have the full deposit of faith. But in Christ and in His Church, we are supposed to be living within an event, a historical event where Christ is making our own lives new. Living with the Savior should be a most profound and sweet relationship that fills all our needs, and causes us to want to share His love and His presence with others…This is the safe walk in understanding our faith in relation to those who do not know Him, or are at present denying and persecuting Him in us.

We can’t look at ourselves as Catholics as having the right construct or understanding of Church and not living out Christ. Otherwise we are promoting rules and structures but without Christ and His saving and redeeming grace.

 

[Anna_Scott]

The Divine grace of God is at work in every human being. We are each given our own inner temple where the Spirit of God speaks to us through our conscience. . . . .

KathleenGee,

Both of us participated on the thread entitled, “What official infallible declaration of any Pope on morals would you as a non-Catholic Christian object to and why?” forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=8066973#post8066973

In that thread, I quoted Pope Eugene IV/Unam Sanctam, etc. In Post #326, you said to me, “I had the impression that these writings you have displayed came from a source critical of the Catholic Church.” Of course, the quotes I posted were from Catholic sources, as I relayed to you.

Ironically, on this thread, Catholics are posting these same quotes, plus more–claiming there is no salvation, unless one is subject to the Roman Pontiff prior to death–which is certainly the way these quotes appear. Yet, they contradict the CCC and some of the teachings of Pope John Paul II.

As I pointed out in the other thread; Catholics, on this forum, do not agree on the issue of salvation outside the Catholic Church. Some Catholics are reading these early quotes and arriving at the same conclusions I did–which leads to the appearance that the teachings of the CC have changed regarding salvation.

Peace,
Anna

 

[Lui]

To those that voted that only God knows – I ask the following question … Do you believe that Jesus lied to us when He promised the Church that whatever they bound on earth, would be bound in heaven?

I wonder why all the confession priests I talk to tell me that only God knows who will go to Hell and that non-Catholics can also go to Heaven. They must have all been wrong all their priesthood. I’m surprised that confession priests who’ve listened to thousands of confessions no nothing about Catholic teachings while random people on the internet know who will and who will not go to Heaven.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Sir Knight,

How do you reconcile your quotes with the Catechism of the Catholic Church?

**THE PROFESSION OF FAITH
SECTION TWO
THE PROFESSION OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH
CHAPTER THREE
I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY SPIRIT
ARTICLE 9
“I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH”

Paragraph 3. The Church Is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic**

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist."324

“Outside the Church there is no salvation”
**
846** How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337
Link: vatican.va/archive/ccc_cs…23a9p3.htm#839

Peace,
Anna

The Catechism is NOT an infallible document. In fact, the Catechism itself says (and this was written by the Pope) …“I acknowledge it [the Catechism] as a valid and legitimate tool in the service of ecclesiastical communion, as a sure norm for instruction in the faith.” The individual doctrines which the Catechism presents receive no other weight than that which they already possess. The weight of the Catechism itself lies in the whole. Since it transmits what the Church teaches, whoever rejects it as a whole separates himself beyond question from the faith and teaching of the Church.

… note what it says …

… whoever rejects it as a whole separates himself beyond question from the faith and teaching of the Church …

… This basicly is saying that Catholics, in GOOD STANDING, can REJECT parts of the Catechism ESPECIALLY if it conflicts with ESTABLISHED Church Dogma. Additionally, the US Bishops has declared …
*“By its very nature, a catechism presents the fundamental truths of the faith which have already been communicated and defined. Because the Catechism presents Catholic doctrine in a complete yet summary way, it naturally contains the infallible doctrinal definitions of the popes and ecumenical councils in the history of the Church. It also presents teaching which has not been communicated and defined in these most solemn forms. This does not mean that such teaching can be disregarded or ignored. Quite to the contrary, the Catechism presents Catholic doctrine as an organic whole and as it is related to Christ who is the center. A major catechism, such as the Catechism of the Catholic Church, presents a compendium of Church teachings and has the advantage of demonstrating the harmony that exists among those teachings.”
*
… Note that it says …

… It also presents teaching which has not been communicated and defined in these most solemn forms …

… If they have not yet been communicated and defined in this manner, then they are NOT yet infallible and it they conflicted with already established infallible statements, then they can not be accepted because that would mean that one was not accepting the infallible teachings.

 

[Anna_Scott]

The Catechism is NOT an infallible document. In fact, the Catechism itself says (and this was written by the Pope) …“I acknowledge it [the Catechism] as a valid and legitimate tool in the service of ecclesiastical communion, as a sure norm for instruction in the faith.” The individual doctrines which the Catechism presents receive no other weight than that which they already possess. The weight of the Catechism itself lies in the whole. Since it transmits what the Church teaches, whoever rejects it as a whole separates himself beyond question from the faith and teaching of the Church.

… note what it says …

… whoever rejects it as a whole separates himself beyond question from the faith and teaching of the Church …

… This basicly is saying that Catholics, in GOOD STANDING, can REJECT parts of the Catechism ESPECIALLY if it conflicts with ESTABLISHED Church Dogma. Additionally, the US Bishops has declared …
*“By its very nature, a catechism presents the fundamental truths of the faith which have already been communicated and defined. Because the Catechism presents Catholic doctrine in a complete yet summary way, it naturally contains the infallible doctrinal definitions of the popes and ecumenical councils in the history of the Church. It also presents teaching which has not been communicated and defined in these most solemn forms. This does not mean that such teaching can be disregarded or ignored. Quite to the contrary, the Catechism presents Catholic doctrine as an organic whole and as it is related to Christ who is the center. A major catechism, such as the Catechism of the Catholic Church, presents a compendium of Church teachings and has the advantage of demonstrating the harmony that exists among those teachings.”
*
… Note that it says …

… It also presents teaching which has not been communicated and defined in these most solemn forms …

… If they have not yet been communicated and defined in this manner, then they are NOT yet infallible and it they conflicted with already established infallible statements, then they can not be accepted because that would mean that one was not accepting the infallible teachings.

Does that mean you reject the parts of the Catechism that says there is salvation outside the Catholic Church?

Peace,
Anna

 

[Sir_Knight]

I wonder why all the confession priests I talk to tell me that only God knows who will go to Hell and that non-Catholics can also go to Heaven. They must have all been wrong all their priesthood. I’m surprised that confession priests who’ve listened to thousands of confessions no nothing about Catholic teachings while random people on the internet know who will and who will not go to Heaven.

Yes or no: Jesus taught that whatever the Church binds on earth WILL BE bound in heaven.

Yes or no: I presented you with not one, but several infallible declaration by the Church that only Catholics will go to heaven.

Connect the dots and what conclusion do you draw?

 

[Anna_Scott]

Does that mean you reject the parts of the Catechism that says there is salvation outside the Catholic Church?

Peace,
Anna

Yes or no: Jesus taught that whatever the Church binds on earth WILL BE bound in heaven.

Yes or no: I presented you with not one, but several infallible declaration by the Church that only Catholics will go to heaven.

Connect the dots and what conclusion do you draw?

I asked if you reject the parts of the Catechism that say there is salvation outside the Catholic Church. It’s not up to me to connect the dots and assume what your answer would be. A simple “yes” or “no” will do.

Peace,
Anna

 

[Sir_Knight]

Does that mean you reject the parts of the Catechism that says there is salvation outside the Catholic Church?

Peace,
Anna

Yes. Since a Catholic ONLY separates himself from the faith if they reject the Catechism ***as a whole, ***this means that Catholics can reject parts of the Catechism and remain in good standing with the Church (especially those parts which conflict with previously declared infallible teachings). However, a Catholic may NOT reject an officially declared doctrine or dogma.

 

[Anna_Scott]

Yes. Since a Catholic ONLY separates himself from the faith if they reject the Catechism ***as a whole, ***this means that Catholics can reject parts of the Catechism and remain in good standing with the Church (especially those parts which conflicted with previously declared infallible teachings). However, a Catholic may NOT reject an officially declared doctrine or dogma.

Sorry. We must have posted at the same time. Thanks for the answer.

Peace,
Anna