Do NOT bring cell phones into the confessional!

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This is a very important sermon on the Audio Sancto site. I believe it is a priest from the Fraternity of Saint Peter.

The main point is DO NOT BRING CELL PHONES (even ones that are turned off) into the confessional. Priests: Do not allow people to bring cell phones into the confessional.
Cell phones, even ones that are turned off can be used as listening devices to spy on people.

According to this audio file there are several things in the news lately that show that confessional privacy is being violated in court AND pro-life people are being targeted. Recently a taped confession was used against someone in court.

The mp3 file is here:

audiosancto.org/sermon/20070930-No-cellphones-in-the-Confessional-Healing-and-making-our-souls-new-in-Christ.html
 
Certainly it behoves us all to beware that this is a possibility.

I can’t see how pro-life people are being targeted in particular though, it’s not like being pro-life is a sin that would come up in confession, after all. Maybe people who breach civil law in the course of committing sins such as being disruptive at pro-abortion protests or the like?

Remember, too, that the penitent is not bound by the seal of the confessional.

As a penitent, I am free to reveal ANYTHING that is said by me in confession or to me in the confessional to the police or anyone I choose. And I don’t need to inform the priest that I’m going to do so - I have no obligation to keep silence.

I certainly wouldn’t be prepared to confess a crime to my priest without being also prepared to suffer the civil repercussions that might be attached if my behaviour were revealed to civil authorities. It’s part of being truly contrite, no?

And I should hope the priest has the same attitude should HE indulge in any illegal activity that he chooses to divulge in the confessional.
 
Is there much difference between a cell-phone recorder and a regular (micro) tape recorder, which has been around for over 30 years? And if it’s completely shut off, what’s the issue?

And excellent points, LilyM.
 
It’s all about the government trying to controll us. They can listen through someone’s cell phone even when it is turned off. Why else do you think the FSSP says not to bring them into the confessional?
 
The courts will uphold priest-penitent privelege (that’s right, it’s real! :)) But there was a case, I think somewhere on the West Coast, that took years to settle, and the whole time the prison police had a recording of a confession and lots of cops listened to it. Lawfully, they can’t, but temporarily they can and will. Be innocent as lambs and cunning as serpents 😉 leave the phones at home.
 
I think the priest is concerned with the government degrading our sacraments and making itself the supreme judge of men. The seal of confession is more sacred than the lawyer/client priviledge.

Imagine that someone is accused of child molestation, but only confesses an addiction to pornography. How would he fare in his trial?
 
ProVobis said:
Is there much difference between a cell-phone recorder and a regular (micro) tape recorder, which has been around for over 30 years? And if it’s completely shut off, what’s the issue?
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, the only way to completely shut off a cell phone today is to pull the battery. It sounds like crazy conspiracy stuff, I know, but law enforcement can actually pull a ton of information from an “off” cell phone and even (it is disputed) turn on the microphone and listen in to conversations remotely. They talk about this sort of thing frequently on www.slashdot.org , which is probably the biggest tech news site in the world; if you do a search I’m sure you’d find some information on it.
 
LilyM said:
I certainly wouldn’t be prepared to confess a crime to my priest without being also prepared to suffer the civil repercussions that might be attached if my behaviour were revealed to civil authorities. It’s part of being truly contrite, no?
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What if you are confessing thoughts of doing something, and someone uses a tape of that as evidence that you later actually did it (when you didn’t)?

Or if you are under suspicion of something you didn’t do, and without your knowledge are under surveilance, does that mean you want your confession to be listened to by the FBI?

We are not talking about people going into the confessional and voluntarily recording their own confessions. We are talking about people’s cell phones being used as bugs without the phones even being on.

It’s better just to leave the phone in the pew.

–Jen
 
Really, the FBI has better things to do then listen to the confessions of Catholics, the large majority of which have nothing to do with anything illegal. :rolleyes:
 
CDNowak said:
Really, the FBI has better things to do then listen to the confessions of Catholics, the large majority of which have nothing to do with anything illegal. :rolleyes:
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yeah but the fact is that it can be done, and espically if the technology falls into the wrong hands
 
revert_jen said:
What if you are confessing thoughts of doing something, and someone uses a tape of that as evidence that you later actually did it (when you didn’t)?

Or if you are under suspicion of something you didn’t do, and without your knowledge are under surveilance, does that mean you want your confession to be listened to by the FBI?

We are not talking about people going into the confessional and voluntarily recording their own confessions. We are talking about people’s cell phones being used as bugs without the phones even being on.

It’s better just to leave the phone in the pew.

–Jen
Click to expand...
From my somewhat imperfect knowledge of criminal law, thoughts matter not a whit - one must actually make plans and take concrete steps (steps beyond just thinking) towards doing the crime to be guilty of anything. So one’s confession of certain thoughts have no bearing and aren’t evidence of any kind.

I say nothing in the confessional that I wouldn’t also be prepared to say to an FBI agent or police officer, certainly. Why would anyone? After all, if I’ve done something illegal, and am truly contrite, I will be prepared to accept any consequences of my misdeeds up to and including legal prosecution, no? It’s only fitting that I should be prepared to atone in whatever way is required of me.

And seriously, so what if the phone is off for the five minutes I’m in the confessional? If the information in the sermon is correct, then anything I say anywhere to anyone can equally be listened into. Most criminals slip up at some stage, and if the police are investigating then they’ll listen to ALL my conversations and ALL the things I say, not just my confessions. 🤷

We’re not talking about voluntariness in the sense of going into the confessional with the full knowledge that at that particular time your conversation is being recorded, no. But I am absolutely volunteering to allow the police - or whoever wants - to listen to my confessions. They will anyway if they want to, surely, whether my phone is off or not. They have many other means of bugging people. And if they misuse my words? Any conversation I have can be misconstrued and misused, in or out of the confessional, recorded or not, so what do I do? Never have my phone on (makes it kinda pointless to have one!)? Never say a word at all?
 
LilyM said:
But I am absolutely volunteering to allow the police - or whoever wants - to listen to my confessions.
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I am emphatically not doing that, and the laws of the Church and (until recently apparently) the laws of men agree with me.

I also don’t volunteer to let them put a camera in my bathroom or record my sessions with my psychologist if I ever have one.

Other places I go, and other people I talk to, I know it’s not private. The confessional should be private.

I don’t think you are getting my point. I am not saying that I am going to leave my phone in the pew because otherwise the Feds will hear evidence of my crimes. I don’t think I have ever had to confess anything illegal other than minor traffic offenses (like speeding or going through a light when it was about to turn red). Just because I haven’t broken the law doesn’t mean I don’t value and have a right to keep my privacy.

It is extremely unlikely that the FBI would ever think they had cause to investigate me (as I am very boring), but on principle, even if I had committed the most heinous of crimes, I have a right to a private and secret sacramental confession, and I have no intention of giving up that right for any reason.

A desire for privacy is not an indication of criminal or even sinful behavior. But just because I haven’t committed any crimes, doesn’t mean I want the FBI listening to all of my sins. I’ve never said anything in confession that could get me sent to jail, but that doesn’t mean I want to bring a cop to confession with me. And just because I don’t want my sins to be public knowledge doesn’t mean that I lack true contrition for them.

–Jen
 
There’s only one good place for cell phones - the bottom of the ocean!

95% of the people who have them don’t need them. And I feel sorry for them, because they’re enslaved to them and can’t live without them.
 
Wowbagger said:
Unfortunately, the only way to completely shut off a cell phone today is to pull the battery. It sounds like crazy conspiracy stuff, I know, but law enforcement can actually pull a ton of information from an “off” cell phone and even (it is disputed) turn on the microphone and listen in to conversations remotely. They talk about this sort of thing frequently on www.slashdot.org , which is probably the biggest tech news site in the world; if you do a search I’m sure you’d find some information on it.
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Now at slashdot they will be able to say that they have been CAFed! 😃
 
Wowbagger said:
Unfortunately, the only way to completely shut off a cell phone today is to pull the battery. It sounds like crazy conspiracy stuff, I know, but law enforcement can actually pull a ton of information from an “off” cell phone and even (it is disputed) turn on the microphone and listen in to conversations remotely. They talk about this sort of thing frequently on www.slashdot.org , which is probably the biggest tech news site in the world; if you do a search I’m sure you’d find some information on it.
Click to expand...
This is not true for any cell phone I have ever dealt with, and I work for a cellular carrier (and have for the past 11 years). I was the network manager for a cellular carrier for 5 years, and I can tell you, be it AMPS, TDMA, or GSM, if the phone is powered down, its cellular transceiver is turned off and it cannot issue or receive remote commands from cell sites, period.

It MAY be possible for some newer phones that contain Wi Fi capabilities to be somehow modified/hacked to have some kind of “Wake on LAN” feature, but I know of no phone on the market that doesnt shut off both its cellular and Wi Fi radios when powered down.

Furthermore, if it somehow happens that you do get monitored without your knowledge, via your personal cell phone, its an invasion of privacy and in no way could be used in court, unless a judge issued a warrant for a wiretap. If that were to happen, theres a good chance you must be involved in some pretty shady stuff to begin with. If this was done, it would be done to monitor your calls, not what you do while the phone is turned off in your pocket, in which case the mic would not be able to pick up your conversations very well anyway.

IMO this is a non-issue. Just turn your phone off or on vibrate (if your job requires it) while your in the confessional, or attending mass.
 
Josh128 said:
This is not true for any cell phone I have ever dealt with, and I work for a cellular carrier (and have for the past 11 years). I was the network manager for a cellular carrier for 5 years, and I can tell you, be it AMPS, TDMA, or GSM, if the phone is powered down, its cellular transceiver is turned off and it cannot issue or receive remote commands from cell sites, period.

It MAY be possible for some newer phones that contain Wi Fi capabilities to be somehow modified/hacked to have some kind of “Wake on LAN” feature, but I know of no phone on the market that doesnt shut off both its cellular and Wi Fi radios when powered down.

Furthermore, if it somehow happens that you do get monitored without your knowledge, via your personal cell phone, its an invasion of privacy and in no way could be used in court, unless a judge issued a warrant for a wiretap. If that were to happen, theres a good chance you must be involved in some pretty shady stuff to begin with. If this was done, it would be done to monitor your calls, not what you do while the phone is turned off in your pocket, in which case the mic would not be able to pick up your conversations very well anyway.

IMO this is a non-issue. Just turn your phone off or on vibrate (if your job requires it) while your in the confessional, or attending mass.
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That is a partially incorrect statement. The phones can be flashed during operation to be remotely activated. The phone can be flashed to appear to be powered off but it is just put in a sleep mode. That it is independent of the WIFI capability. Most of the phones today are not programmed to be remotely activated. The removal of the battery is the only way to do do it; however the phone state could be maintained until the battery is reinserted.

The legal aspect is another one, but if we have elected representatives that are willing to pass retroactive laws then we are in trouble.
 
revert_jen said:
It’s better just to leave the phone in the pew.

–Jen
Click to expand...
Obviously this shouldn’t be the case (esp. a church), but I suspect any phone left in a pew has a risk of not being there when you go back for it. This does sound a little paranoid, I guess it’s theoretically possible but very unlikely for most people. And I doubt most peoples’ confessions are of much interest to the police.

If the authorities really wanted to eavesdrop on you enough to hack into your turned-off phone, they could also have put a bug in your clothing, or snuck one into the church.

What happens (in the US at least) if someone confesses something very serious like murder to a Catholic priest? Is the priest obligated to keep it secret, and not testify if subpoened? I’m not sure what the law in England (where I’m from) is.
 
People should be burnt at the stake for bringing cell phones into Church - confession, Mass, or just refilling the holy water bottle - stake burning.
 
kingal86 said:
What happens (in the US at least) if someone confesses something very serious like murder to a Catholic priest? Is the priest obligated to keep it secret, and not testify if subpoened? I’m not sure what the law in England (where I’m from) is.
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The priest is bound to utmost secrecy, even at the cost of his life. Local laws have no effect on this obligation. It is called the seal of the confessional. A priest who breaks the seal is removed from the priesthood and excommunicated. In practice, it almost never happens. Priests are extremely careful about the smallest details of the seal.

Betsy
 
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