Do not deny sincerity of worship.

[jakasaki]

JMJ / MMM 091104 Wednesday
Brother and Sisters in Jesus Christ –
.

In a small chapel that I frequently visit, where the Holy Eucharist is permanently kept, often when I pray there, a Muslim sometimes positions himself on the floor at the rear, on a small prayer rug, and silently prays.

This muslim which you claim comes into your small chapel and parks his body & rug where the Holy Eucharist is kept is “shirk” you know the unforgivable sin of associating partners, helpers, other gods with allah.

If he is praying in a Christian Church/Chapel, he is not a muslim.

Accorinding to many muslim sites and forums, a muslim can enter a church for “educational” purposes but is not allowed to worship in a Christian church.

 

[jakasaki]

QUOTE=JohnJFarren;5905749]JMJ / MMM 091105 Thursday

And dear Byzantine Wolf, the teachings in the Koran are certainly not “completely contradictory and incompatible” with Christian doctrine. Some things are, yes. And some things taken from the Old Testament are incompatible with Christian charity. Have you read the Koran? Of course not.

John Farren, Byzantine Worf was a muslim and he knows islam and the koran and the sunna and the hadiths very well.

 

[benidict]

JMJ / MMM 091105 Thursday
Dear People … Doxiemom … PaulDupre … benidict …Byzantine Wolf …and Ageosotheos … ralphinal –
Yes, Doxiemom, “It is through Jesus Christ that we are saved, and by Him alone.” We remember (I’m sure you do) that there are many people who do not know Jesus Christ (except in a silly way) who have embraced the Spirit of Jesus Christ … in selfish love for their neighbor. And so God is Loving them and guiding them toward their salvation through Jesus Christ. // And, Doxiemom, you mentioned, “Did not John Paul II kiss the Koran? Why did he do that?” And I believe it is right to say that John Paul II is a great saint and will be canonized by the Church in the not distant future. To which Ageosotheos, very failing in Spirit and grossly unkind, responded, “Because he was being foolishly ecumenical, and in doing so betrayed the faith…” Praise be to God for the faith of John Paul II!

PaulDupre, yes, although in some things, perhaps many things, Muslims are mistaken in their beliefs, they can most certainly be honestly and lovingly sincere. And that counts much with God and toward their salvation. God does look upon their hearts and hears their prayers in the Name of His Infinite Love.

And dear Byzantine Wolf, the teachings in the Koran are certainly not “completely contradictory and incompatible” with Christian doctrine. Some things are, yes. And some things taken from the Old Testament are incompatible with Christian charity. Have you read the Koran? Of course not.

I’m grateful to you, benidict, that you are training soldiers who will fight to defend the people of our country. Thank you truly. You, of course, do not believe that all those who profess Islam are horrible people, terrorists. The history of Islam has numerous outstanding examples of truly spiritual men who were Muslims. And I will not absolve all Jews from inhuman actions. I surely agree that dialogue and discourse with Muslims today, generally, is not THE solution to butchery. But understanding those we must deal with, must engage with, is certainly necessary (but not sufficient) … unless we ourselves would simply and blindly strike out in mindless butchery.

Conversion of non-Christians to Christianity … and specifically to the church Jesus Christ founded, the Roman Catholic Church … is an objective … and sometimes, necessarily, an ultimate objective. In the meantime … we pray … and seek to understand … and fight when necessary.

But let us always differentiate between real and loving Christians and our fakes … and between real and loving Jews and their fakes … and between real and loving Muslims and their fakes. In some ways … we’re all fakes.
All Blessing of the One Infinitely Loving God … in Jesus Christ … Who Loves forever all His creatures!
John (JohnJFarren)

you are correct john. i do not believe they are all terrorist. but 10 million is a huge number of the ones that hate israel and the west. and yes, they have had spots in their history, that shine. but even if their not all terrorist, their culture is seriously flawed, if a woman is raped in islamic nations, she is blamed and punished. often severly. if it is a young girl, she has to fear her own parents murdering her. (honor killings) these nations have an abismal record of human rights. and yes, these are the normal muslims. its interesting to note, that when arrested in america, for beating their spouse,these “loving” muslim men, think they have done nothing wrong. also there was a book written in spain by an imam, teaching how you could beat your wife and not leave marks. he was convicted in court. the name escapes me at present. maybe someone else remembers this. i really do feel for the people who are treated as property and second class citizens in these countries, apparently all in the name of allah.oh yes, and lets not forget the sudan, where these wonderful people enslave Christians. cannot see standing up for a religion, much less a system like this. maybe im just too politically incorrect. just not liberal enough to try to understand an oppressive religion and system. and yes i am currently reading the koran, cover to cover. thx for your timel, and i do appreciate your thoughts. understand where you are coming from. i just happen to disagree. God bless you and yours.

 

[jakasaki]

JMJ / MMM 091105 Thursday

**
All Blessing of the One Infinitely Loving God … in Jesus Christ … Who Loves forever all His creatures!**

John (JohnJFarren)

John, I love your closing statement which I’ve quoted above.

Especially this one below…

**One Infinitely Loving God … in Jesus Christ **

Perhaps you can preach and teach the muslims this statement because as you may know they reject what you wrote.

 

[spoiltvictorian]

How do you know he’s a Muslim? Because he has a prayer rug? Was he pointing toward Mecca or the altar (if the church is not east-facing?)

It’s totally possible for an apparently Muslim person to worship the True God, but that would make that person not Muslim.

 

[JohnJFarren]

JMJ / MMM 091105 Thursday
Greetings jakasaki and Byzantine Wolf –
I am glad to know, Byzantine, that you are indeed acquainted with the Koran and Islamic teachings. My apologies for assuming incorrectly that you were not.
And thank you, jakasaki, for informing me.
My positions remain, however.
Special blessings! John (JohnJFarren)

 

[jakasaki]

JMJ / MMM 091105 Thursday
Greetings jakasaki and Byzantine Wolf –
I am glad to know, Byzantine, that you are indeed acquainted with the Koran and Islamic teachings. My apologies for assuming incorrectly that you were not.
And thank you, jakasaki, for informing me.
My positions remain, however.
Special blessings! John (JohnJFarren)

No worries mate, & Blessings to you my dear brother in Christ.

Your position is your business and that is why God gave us all free will.

But your muslim friend who comes into a Christian Chapel to pray is not a muslim.

 

[Nine_Two]

I would never cast doubt on the sincerity of the worship of these individuals. Some indinviduals (of all religions) are insincere, but no, I agree, the whole is sincere.

However that does not make what they do right, or proper. The religion of Mohammed is wrong.

 

[benidict]

JMJ / MMM 091105 Thursday
Greetings jakasaki and Byzantine Wolf –
I am glad to know, Byzantine, that you are indeed acquainted with the Koran and Islamic teachings. My apologies for assuming incorrectly that you were not.
And thank you, jakasaki, for informing me.
My positions remain, however.
Special blessings! John (JohnJFarren)

hi john. as i mourn my brothers who died in ft hood texas today, after learning the identity of the attacker. i rest my case. take care brother. and may the Good Lord bless you and yours. please pray for the soldiers that died today, by a mulims hand. and also for their families. thank you, and again. God bless you and yours.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Neither Muslims, nor even Jews worship God. Only those who worship through the revelation of the Word Incarnate in the Holy Spirit are capable of legitimately worshiping God.

You must ignore your catholic teachings on the matter to say this.

Do you have a CCC?

 

[dzheremi]

Agiosotheos is an Eastern Orthodox Christian. They are under no compulsion to follow the direction of the church in Rome concerning this or any other matter.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Agiosotheos is an Eastern Orthodox Christian. They are under no compulsion to follow the direction of the church in Rome concerning this or any other matter.

Oh, my apologies to Agiosoheneos and to all of you for that oversight on my part.

I can see why the eastern orthodox could feel this way considering what happened at Hagia Sofia and in other times in history. They suffered greatly, and Rome was not very helpful at all in their dire distress…

 

[PaulDupre]

Agiosotheos is an Eastern Orthodox Christian. They are under no compulsion to follow the direction of the church in Rome concerning this or any other matter.

What what my EO friends have told me of their faith, Agiostheos does not hold “orthodox” EO beliefs in this case.

 

[StrawberryJam]

What what my EO friends have told me of their faith, Agiostheos does not hold “orthodox” EO beliefs in this case.

They don’t have a pope to answer to, so he just may be of a different EO jurisdiction. I am assuming. Unless, they now do have a pope, and a final authority on all matters on each topic, which I don’t believe they have.

 

[Nine_Two]

What what my EO friends have told me of their faith, Agiostheos does not hold “orthodox” EO beliefs in this case.

I’m pretty sure that the EO Churches, in keeping with their normal policy, don’t make any definite pronouncements on issues like this, leaving the faithful to believe a wide range of things on a subject which is not considered necessary to salvation.

Although his religion also says he’s looking into the OO, and I have no idea if they have an official possition, or what it might be, although I think they’re probably the same as the EO.

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

JMJ / MMM 091105 Thursday
Greetings jakasaki and Byzantine Wolf –
I am glad to know, Byzantine, that you are indeed acquainted with the Koran and Islamic teachings. My apologies for assuming incorrectly that you were not.
And thank you, jakasaki, for informing me.
My positions remain, however.

You are welcome to your opinion, most certainly, however I might point out you haven’t really addressed anything I’ve said.

I can see why the eastern orthodox could feel this way considering what happened at Hagia Sofia and in other times in history.

I once met a Muslim who said that Muslim rulers throughout history have been religiously tolerant, and even mentioned Mehmet II (the one who took Constantinople) as an example. I pointed out that he turned the Hagia Sophia, one of the greatest Christian centers of worship in the entire world at that time, into a mosque - even painting out the icons and taking away any sign it had originally been Christian. He didn’t seem turned off by that, which was slightly disturbing, given that such an act isn’t anything close to religiously tolerant.

When I pointed out that this would be like Christian crusaders invading Mecca, turning the Ka’ba into an alter and building a church around it, he simply danced around any real answer.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Rome should be ashamed moreso, than the repugnant millitant muslims that ransacked Hagia Sofia IMHO that will be blasted here of course.

The muslims were UNABLE to paint over the icons, and beautiful religious art even though they tried and tried for YEARS.

Could that be why they finally turned it into a museum covering the icons over with their artifacts, and well basically UNABLE to cover over the icons that kept showing up no matter how hard they tried to layer over layer of paints,???

They stole it, murdered eastern orhtodox priests in cold blood, and ones whith the Eucharist in their very hands,

It makes me ill how they had such little respect for other’s deeply held beliefs, ransacked the most beautiful church in the entire world, and killed these men for NO REASON…

Sorry, it just gets me upset…

and Rome knew they were in trouble and did NOTHING to help!!! Some “True Church” that is!!!

 

[Nine_Two]

Rome should be ashamed moreso, than the repugnant millitant muslims that ransacked Hagia Sofia IMHO that will be blasted here of course.

The muslims were UNABLE to paint over the icons, and beautiful religious art even though they tried and tried for YEARS.

Could that be why they finally turned it into a museum covering the icons over with their artifacts, and well basically UNABLE to cover over the icons that kept showing up no matter how hard they tried to layer over layer of paints,???

They stole it, murdered eastern orhtodox priests in cold blood, and ones whith the Eucharist in their very hands,

It makes me ill how they had such little respect for other’s deeply held beliefs, ransacked the most beautiful church in the entire world, and killed these men for NO REASON…

Sorry, it just gets me upset…

and Rome knew they were in trouble and did NOTHING to help!!! Some “True Church” that is!!!

Actually they did paint over the iconography quite successfully. Now that they’ve turned it into a museum they’ve restored some of the iconography (there is a beautiful icon of the Theotokos over where the altar once stood). However they very much emphasize the Islamic aspect of the building, despite the Blue Mosque being located right next door.

If you want to see some good restored iconography in the city though, you have to go to Chora.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Actually they did paint over the iconography quite successfully. Now that they’ve turned it into a museum they’ve restored some of the iconography (there is a beautiful icon of the Theotokos over where the altar once stood). However they very much emphasize the Islamic aspect of the building, despite the Blue Mosque being located right next door.

If you want to see some good restored iconography in the city though, you have to go to Chora.

Why didn’t Rome send help?

 

[Nine_Two]

Why didn’t Rome send help?

I’m pretty sure I read somewhere that there were 300 Austrians fighting with the Byzantines.

But in reality by the time the city fell its fate had been sealed long before. The Ottoman’s controlled all the territory around the city, only Morea remained securely in Greek hands. Mehmet II was able to build massive fortifications right next to the city while preparing to attack it.

Nothing short of a full scale offensive could have saved the city, and the European states had their own problems (namely each other).