Do not judge me?

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Montie_Claunch

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I have been talking with a relativist lately and one of arguments he uses is “Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day—things which are a mere shadow of what is to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.” Colossians 2:17–19

Saying that we are not supposed to judge people on their beleifs. How should I respond to this? Thanks and God bless.
 
umm, then why on earth does the bible say some things are wrong.

I think this is a misinterpretation of scripture, we are not to judge people, that is for the heavenly father. But we can judge beliefs, for example if I said 2+2=5 you would judge that belief to be wrong, and try to correct me on it. Why should it be that way for something as uninmportant as math, but not for something as important as a soul.

Second, you can judge actions. For example, I could say that murdering someone and eating them is wrong, and so Hannibal Lector should not do it. I am not passing judgement on Hannibal Lector as a person, perhaps it is out of ignorance that he cannibalizes, only God knows, but I know that that action is wrong. And I am free to call him out on it.

If someone takes just one verse from scripture, with no context, and no tradition, and no other verses to back it up, they are probably misinterpreting it.

Just my two cents

A lone Raven
 
Like everything else in Scripture, the context has to be examined. In the early church, as you probably know, most converts were Jewish, and there was a constant tension and disagreement among them as to how much, if any, of the old testament law had to be observed. This comes up for discussion in Romans, Galatians and other passages of Scripture. This passage in Colossians is talking about the same thing. It mentions in verse 14 “having canceled the bond which stood against us with its legal demands” (a reference to the OT law) and then verse 16 mentions food, drink and festivals, all part of the OT ceremonial law. It says in verse 17, “These are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.” In other words, all the OT ceremonial observances pointed to Christ, who is the saving reality. So it doesn’t matter if a Christian observes them or not (and Christians at that time shouldn’t judge others if they do or don’t observe the OT cermonies) because they have no power to save. Hebrews 9 and 10 discusses this also. So this passage can’t be used to deny the idea of absolute truth because the passage is actually confirming that absolute, ultimate truth is Jesus Christ and everything else is a shadow of that truth.

“Follow the pattern of sound words which you have heard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus; guard the truth that has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us.” 2 Tim. 1:13

“For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander into myths.” 2 Tim 3:4-5

“Take heed to yourself and to your teaching: hold to that, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers.” 1 Tim 4:16
 
Montie_Claunch said:
I have been talking with a relativist lately and one of arguments he uses is “Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day—things which are a mere shadow of what is to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.” Colossians 2:17–19

Saying that we are not supposed to judge people on their beleifs. How should I respond to this? Thanks and God bless.
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Isn’t he imposing his belief on you that judging is bad? He’s being judgemental about judgement in my opinion.
 
That has got to be one of the most misused and abused passages in the Bible…although there are many.

In my opinion, it’s also most quoted by people who are guilty of something and don’t want to be bothered with morality.

Guaranteed, the person misquoting is usually making their own interesting judgments but want to apply scripture only to Christians, never to themselves. It is meant to be an argument-ender, and sadly, it works much of the time.

People really don’t know what to say. Case in point: I have some friends who occasionally attend a local parish which has some heterodox leanings, liturgical abuses, etc. One friend described how she just closes her eyes, tells herself not to focus on the abuse, but rather the Lord and the sacrament. Yet she finished up her monologue about the incident by saying, "But I don’t go there and I can’t judge…

My response to her was < You’ve ALREADY judged! You know what’s wrong, you didn’t want to see it, so you did the equivalent of sticking your head in the sand, and now you say, “I can’t judge”. WHAT???

Judgment about actions, about things that are right and wrong is not a bad thing…judgment tells us when something is right or wrong, and it keeps us out of trouble…or gets us into it. Of COURSE we can judge!

There is no logic to someone who uses the above scripture to justify his or her actions by trying to shut down the opposing view by misquoting the Bible.
 
Tell him that true Christian charity demands fraternal correction.
 
Judging is a matter of what you judge. Everyone judges everything. It’s ridiculous and silly to say “don’t judge”.

I’m fairly confident that Jesus and the apostles were referring to judging people, inasmuch as no one knows the state of their soul, much less that of others.

You can easily judge actions and the good of such actions based on the intents of people. If someone celebrates the “new moon” or whatever because they focus on the blessings of Christ and our salvation, what’s wrong with that? If, however, someone celebrates the new moon because of some goddess, then that action is wrong.

The basic message of that passage is of accepting people’s ways of worshipping which do not interfere with the directions or teachings of Christ/Church. If it is not declared that one must fast or abstain from meat, then one can and it can be good, but it is not a sin or worse if someone does not fast.
 
Montie_Claunch said:
I have been talking with a relativist lately and one of arguments he uses is “Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day—things which are a mere shadow of what is to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.” Colossians 2:17–19

Saying that we are not supposed to judge people on their beleifs. How should I respond to this? Thanks and God bless.
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I would gently suggest that every phrase in the bible must be reconciled with the entire bible. Your friend seems to want to isolate one phrase, self define it, and then create an entire private theology out of this self invention.
 
Are we to judge? Certainly. We are not to judge hypercritically (Matt. 7:1) in other words, judging someone while doing the same thing ourselves. We are not the final judge of anyone’s salvation. But we are to judge what people teach and prophesy. Paul commanded those who listened to him to judge what he was saying.
 
Deus_Vult said:
Are we to judge? Certainly. We are not to judge hypercritically (Matt. 7:1) in other words, judging someone while doing the same thing ourselves. We are not the final judge of anyone’s salvation. But we are to judge what people teach and prophesy. Paul commanded those who listened to him to judge what he was saying.
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So if I am a thief and you are a thief, I have no business telling you or anyone that stealing is wrong?
 
buffalo said:
So if I am a thief and you are a thief, I have no business telling you or anyone that stealing is wrong?
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Are you asking me this question? I think the verse speaks for itself! We should judge one another…we are just called not to judge hypercritically.
 
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