Do Not Turn Into a Fight - 10 Reasons to Love the EF

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Rich_C said:
If I compare them I compare what the prayers and rubrics actually say, taking the best translation of each since my Latin is so-so, but I’m not comparing here. Why not let people enjoy talking up the Mass for mutual edification and for the sake of readers who have never heard of it? That’s the main reason I visit CAF.
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Again, as I said, it is a matter of preference. What does it matter what draws me to one over the other?

If you go back and look at some of the responses as to why certain users love the EF you will see subjective things in some of their reasons, such as Roger and the priest “just doing the job and going home”. The priest not introducing his personality or abuses into the liturgy has nothing to do with the rubrics or prayers.

I am all for people choosing what is most edifying for themself. What is problematic is when we start to shout out our personal reasons and some of those reasons can be seen as a put down to others who chose something different but which they find most edifying for them.

This sort of thread reminds me of kindergartner on the playground singing how what they like is better than what anyone else likes.

For me it detracts from the spiritual beauty of the Faith and makes it into some sort of game.
 
Rich_C said:
If I compare them I compare what the prayers and rubrics actually say, taking the best translation of each since my Latin is so-so, but I’m not comparing here. Why not let people enjoy talking up the Mass for mutual edification and for the sake of readers who have never heard of it? That’s the main reason I visit CAF.
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CAF is how I found out about the TLM. Deo Gratias!
 
ByzCath said:
Again, as I said, it is a matter of preference. What does it matter what draws me to one over the other?

If you go back and look at some of the responses as to why certain users love the EF you will see subjective things in some of their reasons, such as Roger and the priest “just doing the job and going home”. The priest not introducing his personality or abuses into the liturgy has nothing to do with the rubrics or prayers.

I am all for people choosing what is most edifying for themself. What is problematic is when we start to shout out our personal reasons and some of those reasons can be seen as a put down to others who chose something different but which they find most edifying for them.

This sort of thread reminds me of kindergartner on the playground singing how what they like is better than what anyone else likes.

For me it detracts from the spiritual beauty of the Faith and makes it into some sort of game.
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What are your thoughts on that the Church deems the TLM an Extraordinary Form and Novus Ordo a Ordinary Form?
 
I think the problem with the new mass is that, because it was a radical change, it invites more change. People think they can make more changes. It’s become normal. Over time, this adds up.

The way the new mass is now said stems from thinking that mass is mainly a communal, celebratory meal. At a banquet, the presider faces you and it’s not so rigid. You can take little liberties. Jesus is kind.

At a sacrificial rite offered to a powerful god, guitars and soppy songs look ridiculous. Or worse, sacriligeous.

Well, you can attend a wide variety of masses now, if you’re prepared to travel 🤷
 
ByzCath said:
Again, as I said, it is a matter of preference. What does it matter what draws me to one over the other?

If you go back and look at some of the responses as to why certain users love the EF you will see subjective things in some of their reasons, such as Roger and the priest “just doing the job and going home”. The priest not introducing his personality or abuses into the liturgy has nothing to do with the rubrics or prayers.
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I said something similar in my list of reasons. I think that it is a natural consequence of the ad orientem arrangement to focus more on the role of the priest than the personality of the priest. Not looking at the priest’s face has that effect on me, so this has been my experience. Granted that it is theoretically possible for the OF to be celebrated ad orientem, this is quite rare in practice, so I associate it with the EF. Since I am giving my personal reasons, they are based on my personal experience.
ByzCath said:
I am all for people choosing what is most edifying for themself. What is problematic is when we start to shout out our personal reasons and some of those reasons can be seen as a put down to others who chose something different but which they find most edifying for them.

This sort of thread reminds me of kindergartner on the playground singing how what they like is better than what anyone else likes.

For me it detracts from the spiritual beauty of the Faith and makes it into some sort of game.
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I am really enjoying learning about what draws various people to the EF. Perhaps, if you perceive this thread so negatively, you should not read it.
 
ByzCath said:
I am all for people choosing what is most edifying for themself. What is problematic is when we start to shout out our personal reasons and some of those reasons can be seen as a put down to others who chose something different but which they find most edifying for them.
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With all respect, brother I’ve yet to see a discussion of the EF of which you didn’t protest. I wish I could win you over but you’re a consecrated person and I’m just a layman, so I won’t argue with you even on the Internet.
 
TrueLight said:
What you think Extraordinary means is not what it means, lol.

🍿
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Reminds me of princess bride movie line,

“Inconceivable!”

“You keep using that word. I don’t think it means what you think it means…”
 
RogerDeCourcy said:
I think the problem with the new mass is that, because it was a radical change, it invites more change. People think they can make more changes. It’s become normal. Over time, this adds up.

The way the new mass is now said stems from thinking that mass is mainly a communal, celebratory meal. At a banquet, the presider faces you and it’s not so rigid. You can take little liberties. Jesus is kind.
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We will just have to agree to disagree on this point.
At a sacrificial rite offered to a powerful god, guitars and soppy songs look ridiculous. Or worse, sacriligeous.
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I agree that there is bad music out there but it is not used everywhere. There is nothing wrong with the use of musical instruments besides the organ or piano. It all depends on how they are used. Actually I dislike the organ. I find organ music to be horrible and in no way uplifting. It detracts from the Mass for me.
 
ByzCath said:
I agree that there is bad music out there but it is not used everywhere. There is nothing wrong with the use of musical instruments besides the organ or piano. It all depends on how they are used. Actually I dislike the organ. I find organ music to be horrible and in no way uplifting. It detracts from the Mass for me.
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You are in a minority about organ music. The scholas I know are very happy when they can get an organist to play.

The connotations of other instruments are wrong. Folk music in the West has degenerated into a repetition of a simple-minded chorus, often about sex. Guitars are the intrument of the troubador singing about forbidden love. This style is inserted into a supposedly mystical rite, where they sing banal songs up made up a few years ago.

When one questions this, the prating begins. “We should concentrate of Jesus! It’s still the Mass. Can’t we all just get along?”

Indeed we can. To the nearest TLM.
 
St. Francis was a troubadour.

St. Clare sang about unobtainable love.

I bet a few saints have played the guitar.

St. Cecilia, patron saint of music and NOT playing the organ.
 
Er… forgive me, I may be wrong - but I don’t think they had electricity then.😛

They did have wood and cats and that’s what they used!

And having played the violin to grade 5 I can tell you I would rather listen to a guitar in church than a poorly played violin!
 
triumphguy said:
St. Francis was a troubadour.

St. Clare sang about unobtainable love.

I bet a few saints have played the guitar.

St. Cecilia, patron saint of music and NOT playing the organ.
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No one is against learning and playing diverse instruments. We’re talking about Mass!
 
Lutes, lyres, ten stringed harps? Trumpets, drums? Bagpipes?

They certainly didn’t have pipe organs in 230 AD!
 
triumphguy said:
Lutes, lyres, ten stringed harps? Trumpets, drums? Bagpipes?

They certainly didn’t have pipe organs in 230 AD!
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Organs were actually invented a long time ago. They weren’t anything fancy, in fact, I’m sure nothing more than primitive, but they had them. I read they had one in one of the coliseums. Slave power! 😛
 
Reasons to love the EF as sung and accompanied by a guitar:

The Ballad of Summorum Pontificum

youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YSMAacrCkMw#!

Here’s the lyrics ('cos you guys always need to know the words since you can’t hear them:p).
It was the 7th July 2007
“The most beautiful day
This side of Heaven”
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A treasure was released
The Mass of all Ages
The Missal was closed
Now a Priest turns the pages
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So we kneel down and pray the Confiteor
Now he’s facing the right way, towards the Lord
Ad Deum quit laetificat juvemtutem meum
He turns around and the people say give us some more!
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For over 50 years
A Mass that lay hidden
Came out of the closet
No moth there had bitten
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No dust was upon it
For this Mass is timeless
You can tell when you walk through the door!
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You can hear the bells ring out thrice at the Sanctus
He turns around and he says “Oratre Fratres”
Priest and people pray Domine non sum dignus
And the people say give us some more
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Some more
Summorum Pontificum!
Gimme some more, some more
Gimme some more
Some more
Summorum Pontificum!
Gimme some more, some more, give us some more!
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Ecce Agnus Dei qui tollis peccata mundi
Now we can hear the words ring out
Every Sunday
The Latin Mass is back
Put your guitars on the floor
We have Communion kneeling and on the tongue
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All ages they pass
All ages they vary
The Mass of Ages belongs
In our seminaries
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Our Bishops they don’t want it
Oh if only they could
Say “God bless our Pope
The great and the good!”
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Some more
Summorum Pontificum!
Gimme some more, some more
Gimme some more
Some more
Summorum Pontificum!
Gimme some more, some more
Gimme some more!
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The Mass that brings sinners
To the Fountain of grace
The Mass that made martyrs
Embrace their pains
The Mass that brought hope
To the poor and abandoned
Finding in Jesus (bow head)
The perfect Companion
But that Mass is back (back)
To liberal dismay
That Mass is back (back)
To liberal dismay
That Mass is back (back)
To liberal dismay
That Mass is back (back)
You might find one today!
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Some more
Summorum Pontificum!
Gimme some more, some more
Gimme some more
Some more
Summorum Pontificum!
Gimme some more, some more
Gimme some more!
(Repeat x 2)
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It was the 7th July 2007
“The most beautiful day
This side of Heaven”
Click to expand...
 
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