Do Not Turn Into a Fight - 10 Reasons to Love the EF

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thewanderer said:
Ok, so another thread was started recently with this post.

However, the thread looks like it is heading towards a battle between the two forms of the Mass. I think that it would be wonderful if we could have a charitable thread where those who prefer the EF could explain why they prefer it without being attacked for their preferences. So I decided to start another thread about it in the hopes that it will turn out ok. This doesn’t mean there can’t be discussion about any points brought up. But please make sure that any such comments are done in an extremely charitable manner that will not come across as an attack against those with a different preferance from yourself.

I for one am very interested in hearing more of the reasons why people prefer one form to the other, and I’m sure I’m not the only one who would be interested. So if anyone is interested in sharing, please feel free to post here. 🙂
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Thanks for your thread!🙂
 
ImmaculataFides said:
Some people get upset when they come to the reality that the Novus Ordo will be abolished within the next 50 years for a complete return to tradition,** to the True Mass. **😉
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I was going to say that this is pretty inflammatory and hostile. But considering that by saying this you doesn’t understand that “two Forms of the same Rite” means that at the core the OF and the EF are both the same Mass, just expressed differently, I guess instead maybe I should simply pray that you come to the same understanding that Pope Benedict has on this matter.

Based my above statement, I like how the EF is available for those of a certain spirituality to express themselves and their faith,
 
I like the contemplative aspect of the EF. One pays more attention and focuses more, first because it is so different from the OF (even if some of us older people have vague childhood memories, we’ve had 40 years of the OF and many of us had no exposure whatsoever to the EF in that time); and then when it becomes more familiar with time, one still focuses more because one has the ‘time’ to do so.

I am not saying that a person attending the OF is not focused. Not at all. They certainly are! But at the OF one does have to maintain a certain awareness that it is time to say the responses, the Gloria, the Creed, the Sanctus, etc. etc. (And I think those prayers are wonderful and I love to pray them).

But at the EF one’s participation is not so regimented, and this is a wonderful opportunity to let the Spirit guide our mental participation as He wills. And I like this.
 
My list:
  • Beautiful and inspiring prayers.
  • Music almost always well-chosen to honor God, which has tugged a progressive-minded musician friend in a more orthodox direction.
  • Priests who reference the consistent teaching of the Church from the popes and saints and councils of many centuries.
  • Priests who want their flock to become holy so that they too may be counted among the saints.
  • Quiet before and after Mass.
  • Points before and after the consecration where it is natural and easy to add to add prayers for particular people. (Be mindful, O Lord, of Thy servants and handmaids, N. and N. …)
  • Time to linger over particular prayers.
  • Kneeling for Holy Communion on the tongue (at the same altar rail where I received my first Communion in the same way 42 years ago).
  • A sense of continuity with the past, and an attitude of gratitude for what we have received from the generations of Catholics who preceeded us.
  • Above all the Presence of our Lord in the Most Holy Eucharist.
Oh, and I appreciate being able to light a votive candle at most Latin Mass parishes.
 
Reasons why I only attend the EF,
  • I feel like I am drenched in history, seeing the Canon done just as it was since Pope Gregory the Great and the same language used in the liturgy since the 4th-5th century.
  • As my signature says,* lex orandi lex credendi* (the law of prayer is the law of belief.) …“the sacred Canon, so pure from every error, that nothing is contained therein which does not in the highest degree savour of a certain holiness and piety, and raise up unto God the minds of those that offer.” (Council of Trent, Session 22, Chapter 4) And this goes for the entire liturgy; the law of prayer throughout it is highly reverent and centric on the Sacrifice on Calvary.
  • To support my priest in his practice of the EF.
 
I love it because it is the surest norm for teaching the faith that we have in the Latin rite. If you read the prayers, even out of Mass, you find a beautiful and precise theological reflection on the Sacrifice of the Cross, the Holy Trinity, the Communion of Saints; I could go on and on. Except for the Canon, reduced to an option, you can’t find these prayers anywhere else.

I also love the ad orientem posture. I think it keep us all focused on the altar. All the reverent gestures in the rubrics really help the mystery and majesty of the Mass hit home.

I love knowing that nearly all the saints I know of worshipped in the same Mass. For instance, I read St. Francis de Sales’ sermons and the readings he references were the same; it was so cool!

I could go on, but I’ll just say it makes me feel more like a Catholic. Once a priest who just learned it at the command of his bishop said it made him feel more like a priest. Once I learned to live it, the whole Faith sort of fell into place for me, without the dissonence I’d always felt before.
 
Since some people cannot discuss this subject without minimizing the Ordinary Form of the mass, then this thread cannot remain open.

Make your choice folks and make it soon. I mean it.
 
Thomas_Casey said:
Since some people cannot discuss this subject without minimizing the Ordinary Form of the mass, then this thread cannot remain open.

Make your choice folks and make it soon. I mean it.
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Could you point to where in this thread anyone has minimized the OF? I can’t find any such posts, so I find your warning very confusing. Without knowing what has been said that might be possibly construed to be offensive (again, I don’t see a thing), it’s rather hard to even say anything in this thread. It’s like walking on glass.

(Ordinarily I’d ask this via PM, but I figure there may be many other people who are scratching their heads as well and would be appreciative of the matter being made more clear.)
 
The_Curt_Jester said:
Could you point to where in this thread anyone has minimized the OF? I can’t find any such posts, so I find your warning very confusing. Without knowing what has been said that might be possibly construed to be offensive (again, I don’t see a thing), it’s rather hard to even say anything in this thread. It’s like walking on glass.

(Ordinarily I’d ask this via PM, but I figure there may be many other people who are scratching their heads as well and would be appreciative of the matter being made more clear.)
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Well… I am hardly the moderator, but I am also not coming at this subject from the point of view of a traditionalist, or even from the point of view of someone who prefers the EF, so maybe my (name removed by moderator)ut would be helpful. So long as you are careful to phrase it as a personal reason for liking the EF rather than a universal reason that the EF is better than the OF than I cannot see any problem with it.

For example
archangel04 said:
Good!
one reason I have is the Latin. The use of a language that is not in my common tongue makes my brain wake up and pay attention lol.

the use of ad-orientem, this practice give me an external sense that something holy is happening because we are all facing the same direction, and even that the priest is leading us there. If I go into battle I don’t want my commander behind me I want to follow him into battle!
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This post makes no claim that it is objectively better for the Liturgy to be in latin or ad orientem. He merely says that this is what he likes and explains why he personally finds it helpful. I assure you that if you present your reasons like this there is no way anyone can reasonably take offense at it. 🙂

If, however, he were to have instead said something like

“Latin is more suited to the nature of the Sacrifice of the Mass than the vernacular, and so I like the EF because it is better suited to the nature of the Mass itself”
That could be more easily seen as pitting one form against the other. Again, I am not a moderator, I do not know for sure if phrasing it like this would be sufficient for the thread to be closed. But if you are not sure what will cause trouble just be careful to phrase it as a personal rather than an objective reason. There is no way anyone can take offense at a personal preferance. 🙂

Whether or not you believe it to be objectively better, phrasing it as a personal reason will allow others to see the beauty of the EF as you do without having any chance of offending others or breaking forum rules. So please feel free to contribute! 🙂
 
Thomas_Casey said:
Since some people cannot discuss this subject without minimizing the Ordinary Form of the mass, then this thread cannot remain open.

Make your choice folks and make it soon. I mean it.
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Yet the first poster who responded did try to minimize the EF? Come on Thomas!
 
thewanderer said:
Well… I am hardly the moderator, but I am also not coming at this subject from the point of view of a traditionalist, or even from the point of view of someone who prefers the EF, so maybe my (name removed by moderator)ut would be helpful. So long as you are careful to phrase it as a personal reason for liking the EF rather than a universal reason that the EF is better than the OF than I cannot see any problem with it.

For example

This post makes no claim that it is objectively better for the Liturgy to be in latin or ad orientem. He merely says that this is what he likes and explains why he personally finds it helpful. I assure you that if you present your reasons like this there is no way anyone can reasonably take offense at it. 🙂

If, however, he were to have instead said something like

“Latin is more suited to the nature of the Sacrifice of the Mass than the vernacular, and so I like the EF because it is better suited to the nature of the Mass itself”
That could be more easily seen as pitting one form against the other. Again, I am not a moderator, I do not know for sure if phrasing it like this would be sufficient for the thread to be closed. But if you are not sure what will cause trouble just be careful to phrase it as a personal rather than an objective reason. There is no way anyone can take offense at a personal preferance. 🙂

Whether or not you believe it to be objectively better, phrasing it as a personal reason will allow others to see the beauty of the EF as you do without having any chance of offending others or breaking forum rules. So please feel free to contribute! 🙂
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But he DOES make the error of claiming that the ‘commander’ is ‘behind’ the people in the OF. Which is simply nonsense because

a) the priest in the OF is in front of the people. He is facing towards them, true, but is in front of them.

b) the real commander is in fact CHRIST - who is certainly front and centre of both the OF and EF Masses, regardless of the posture of the priest.
 
LilyM said:
But he DOES make the error of claiming that the ‘commander’ is ‘behind’ the people in the OF. Which is simply nonsense because

a) the priest in the OF is in front of the people. He is facing towards them, true, but is in front of them.

b) the real commander is in fact CHRIST - who is certainly front and centre of both the OF and EF Masses, regardless of the posture of the priest.
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He claims no such thing. He is explaining how it makes him feel. Just because he didn’t use the word ‘me’ in the last sentance… :rolleyes: Come now, can we really not discuss something like this charitably and reasonably? If he was talking about the OF would you really pick his post apart to shreds like that? Its pretty clear he meant no slight against the OF if you are willing to read his post reasonably and charitably.

We are all members of the one Church. The greatest commandment of which is to love. Is it really so impossible to have a conversation with each other about preferances without assuming ill-will on the part of those you don’t agree with???
 
thewanderer said:
Well… I am hardly the moderator, but I am also not coming at this subject from the point of view of a traditionalist, or even from the point of view of someone who prefers the EF, so maybe my (name removed by moderator)ut would be helpful. So long as you are careful to phrase it as a personal reason for liking the EF rather than a universal reason that the EF is better than the OF than I cannot see any problem with it.

For example

This post makes no claim that it is objectively better for the Liturgy to be in latin or ad orientem. He merely says that this is what he likes and explains why he personally finds it helpful. I assure you that if you present your reasons like this there is no way anyone can reasonably take offense at it. 🙂

If, however, he were to have instead said something like

“Latin is more suited to the nature of the Sacrifice of the Mass than the vernacular, and so I like the EF because it is better suited to the nature of the Mass itself”
That could be more easily seen as pitting one form against the other. Again, I am not a moderator, I do not know for sure if phrasing it like this would be sufficient for the thread to be closed. But if you are not sure what will cause trouble just be careful to phrase it as a personal rather than an objective reason. There is no way anyone can take offense at a personal preferance. 🙂

Whether or not you believe it to be objectively better, phrasing it as a personal reason will allow others to see the beauty of the EF as you do without having any chance of offending others or breaking forum rules. So please feel free to contribute! 🙂
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How you’ve put it is how I understand it. However, I’ve read through every post in this thread three times over trying to find something that doesn’t follow along with what you wrote. I haven’t found it yet. That’s what makes the warning very confusing. If someone crossed a line, I’d like to know what it was because I’m not seeing it. If someone didn’t cross a line, then why a stern warning?

Still scratching my head here.
 
thewanderer said:
He claims no such thing. He is explaining how it makes him feel. Just because he didn’t use the word ‘me’ in the last sentance… :rolleyes: Come now, can we really not discuss something like this charitably and reasonably? If he was talking about the OF would you really pick his post apart to shreds like that? Its pretty clear he meant no slight against the OF if you are willing to read his post reasonably and charitably.

We are all members of the one Church. The greatest commandment of which is to love. Is it really so impossible to have a conversation with each other about preferances without assuming ill-will on the part of those you don’t agree with???
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He or she DID use the word ‘me’ - as in ‘if I am going into battle I want my commander in front of me, not behind me’.

And he or she WAS talking about the OF - in a manner that really made it sound like he or she had never even attended one, or at least never noticed where the priest and the altar are located in relation to the congregation!

And yes, if people make ignorant comments disparaging the EF such as how they don’t like the priest ‘turning his back on the people’ I can and do pick them apart. Not on here, there are more than enough more able defenders here than I, and they jump in at the drop of a hat, God bless them 🙂
 
LilyM said:
He or she DID use the word ‘me’ - as in ‘if I am going into battle I want my commander in front of me, not behind me’.

And he or she WAS talking about the OF - in a manner that really made it sound like he or she had never even attended one, or at least never noticed where the priest and the altar are located in relation to the congregation!

And yes, if people make ignorant comments disparaging the EF such as how they don’t like the priest ‘turning his back on the people’ I can and do pick them apart. Not on here, there are more than enough more able defenders here than I, and they jump in at the drop of a hat, God bless them 🙂
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You know what, you’re right, he did use the word ‘me’, and the phrase ‘I don’t want’/‘I want’. Sounds like a personal opinion to me, not an attempt to belittle the OF. Please, don’t make a mountain out of a molehill. If people are going to pick apart everything people say then of course no one is going to be willing to respond. They’re going to be too afraid of being attacked. This thread has been clearly labelled as a place for people to charitably discuss why they like the EF. I think its reasonable to assume that unless somebody says something obviously derogatory towards the OF that they do not intend to belittle the OF. This is a necessary assumption in order to have the nice, pleasant, interesting, fruitful conversation that I was looking forward to by starting this thread. Please do not try to turn this thread into something it is not intended to be.
 
LilyM said:
And he or she WAS talking about the OF - in a manner that really made it sound like he or she had never even attended one, or at least never noticed where the priest and the altar are located in relation to the congregation!
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Does that seem likely? Given that archangel04 neither names nor describes the OF, I think it is more likely that he is not talking about the OF at all, but is thinking about the TLM, and using a military image to describe it.
LilyM said:
And yes, if people make ignorant comments disparaging the EF such as how they don’t like the priest ‘turning his back on the people’ I can and do pick them apart.
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Thanks. God bless you.
 
This is why sometimes it is wise to avoid these types of threads.

Anytime you prefer something, you prefer it because in your mind it is better in some way. You may prefer vanilla ice cream over vanilla frozen yogurt not only because it tastes better but because it is more filling.

Most people who prefer the EF prefer it not only because it is aesthetically pleasing. And honestly it is hard to explain one’s preference without implicitly or explicitly pitting the forms.

So… danger. 🙂

“He who has ears to hear”, let him listen.
 
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