Do only Catholics suffer from Church punishments?

[Steven_Merten]

Do only Catholics suffer from Catholic Church punishments?

I have heard it said that Protestants are not under any Church bound automatic punishments. I am talking of automatic excommunication, automatic anathema and papal bindings of what is sin, such as missing Mass on holy days of obligation and the like. With the exception of those Protestants who were once Catholics and automatically excommunicated for converting to Protestantism.

In the old days (before 1960ish), Catholics were led to believe that all Protestants went to hell. It was sensible, in those days, seeing that all Protestants were already damned to hell, that Catholic Church punishments only applied to Catholics. In today’s age, the Church accepts Protestants as within the bosom of the Catholic Church for salvation. Yet the Church still sees Protestants outside the reach of Catholic Church punishments, as I am told.

Do automatic Catholic Church punishments only affect Catholics?

Is this double standard on Catholic Church punishments fair to Catholics?

Should Protestants be informed of a double standard on Church punishments, which could effect their eternal salvation, at RCIA, before they convert?

 

[Della]

Your whole premise is filled with errors, I’m afraid. You’ve created quite a tangle of misinformation. It’s not surprising that you have because many people, including Catholics, believe all sorts of errors about the Church, back in the 50’s as well as today.

The Church has never automatically excommunicated people for becoming Protestant, for one thing. Nor does the Church hand down judgments as to who will go to hell. What those in the 50’s probably meant to convey was that anyone who left the Church for Protestantism was putting his soul in danger, but that’s not the same thing as being automatically excommunicated nor is it a sentence of damnation.

 

[Gamera]

Unless I’m way off base (which has happened before LOL), only Catholics are subject to Canon Law. For instance, a Catholic is required to attend Sunday Mass, but a Protestant isn’t because he isn’t subject to Canon Law in the first place. Therefore, only Catholics can be punished under Canon Law.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Hi,
In my church if you willingly continue to sin and the church confronts you on it and you are unwilling to repent then the church will excommunicate you. But the intention of excommunication(in my church) is to lovingly except that person back when they have repented.

I should say I go to a non-denom church

 

[Ceil-1]

The same effect is what is sought with formal excommunication in the Catholic Church as well. Excommunication is committed by the sinner when he knowingly commits a grave sin and breaks off from communioun with it. Formal excommunication is sometimes
given by the Church for public sinners, such as a politician or priest or other well-known figure who has become apostate or some such thing. It is meant to give a message that these people are not to be followed with the hope that the person will repent.

The term “Church Punishment” is not accurate, I believe. The purpose of the Church is to reconcile us with God. It imposes parameters within which we must fall in order to receive it’s benefits. This is all part of the mercy of God.

If you are outside of the Church (which most Protestants are not ), you are on your own. As a Protestant, you are a member of the Church who does not give allegiance to the Magisterium (teaching office). That would be your distinction. The Church, has the power to directly facilitate salvation so long as the person follows it’s teachings. Not in your case, because you are not accepting of all the Church’s instructions. The hope still exists, however.

Hope that helps a bit.

 

[Church_Militant]

Hi,
In my church if you willingly continue to sin and the church confronts you on it and you are unwilling to repent then the church will excommunicate you. But the intention of excommunication(in my church) is to lovingly except that person back when they have repented.

I should say I go to a non-denom churchWhich, contrary to a-C propaganda is the purpose of Catholic excommunication as well. In fact it functions much the same way.

However, I was a deacon in an AoG that refused to follow scripture and implement Matthew 18:14: So it is not the will of my Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.
15: “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother.
16: But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses.
17: If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.
18: Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
19: Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.
20: For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” and refused to allow me time to do so before excommunicating a man. That was when I left…

 

[Other_Eric]

What purpose could the Catholic Church possibly serve in attempting to punish a Protestant who refuses to identify as a member of the Church? God will take care of whatever punishment said Protestant merits in His own good time.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

What purpose could the Catholic Church possibly serve in attempting to punish a Protestant who refuses to identify as a member of the Church? God will take care of whatever punishment said Protestant merits in His own good time.

HUH? Your not saying that God should punish us Protestants because we dont belong to a CC
Im sure I am misreading your post.

 

[Other_Eric]

HUH? Your not saying that God should punish us Protestants because we dont belong to a CC
Im sure I am misreading your post.

I’m saying that God will take care of whatever punishment such a Protestant merits in His own good time.

 

[Della]

I’m saying that God will take care of whatever punishment such a Protestant merits in His own good time.

As he will for Catholics, as well.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

As he will for Catholics, as well.

Hi,

That was what I was looking for. It is not just protestants who will be judged. It is all of mankind.

Other Eric,

I just wanted to make sure you dont think that protestants are the only ones that will be judged.

 

[Church_Militant]

I’m saying that God will take care of whatever punishment such a Protestant merits in His own good time.

As he will for Catholics, as well.

[SIGN]Exactly![/SIGN]

 

[Steven_Merten]

Hello All,

Is the general consensus that neither Protestants nor Catholics need Catholic Church punishments because God will take care of the punishing on His own?

Should there be a poll answer: Catholic Church punishments, automatic and papal professed, are unneeded and should be eliminated for all? This would, at least, be fair in the sence of equal punishment.

 

[Sixtus]

Catholic Church automatic punishments apply to…

I did NOT vote.

It seems like someone is ganging up on Mother Church.

Does not any caring mother encourage her children to behave in Godly ways?

But to describe that as ‘punishment’ is not how I would describe it

Mother bends over backwards to reconcile her children and any adopted or foster children that come her way.

She is a loving caring mother, not a punitive one

 

[Steven_Merten]

I did NOT vote.

It seems like someone is ganging up on Mother Church.

Does not any caring mother encourage her children to behave in Godly ways?

But to describe that as ‘punishment’ is not how I would describe it

Mother bends over backwards to reconcile her children and any adopted or foster children that come her way.

She is a loving caring mother, not a punitive one

Hello Sixtus,

Do you at least agree that Mother Church should love both Protestants and Catholics equally through punishments or lack of punishments? A Mother punishing one Child for many things yet not punishing another child at all, when both children are doing the same evils, seems unMotherly.

 

[Genesis315]

Here is an interesting passage from an article in the Catholic Encyclopedia. What I bolded and underlined is the important part (don’t attach the knee-jerk emotional response to some of the terms used in the article, take them in the technical sense):

As in ecclesiastical language those who by baptism have received faith in Jesus Christ and have pledged Him their fidelity and called the faithful, so the name infidel is given to those who have not been baptized. The term applies not only to all who are ignorant of the true God, such as pagans of various kinds, but also to those who adore Him but do not recognize Jesus Christ, as Jews, Mohammedans; strictly speaking it may be used of catechumens also, though in early ages they were called Christians; for it is only through baptism that one can enter into the ranks of the faithful. Those however who have been baptized but do not belong to the Catholic Church, heretics and schismatics of divers confessions are not called infidels but non-Catholics. The relation in which all these classes stand to the Catholic Church is not the same; **in principle, those who have been baptized are subjects of the Church and her children even though they be rebellious children; they are under her laws or, at least, are exempt from them only so far as pleases the Church. **Infidels, on the contrary, are not members of the ecclesiastical society, according to the words of St. Paul: Quid mihi de his qui fortis sunt, judicare? (1 Corinthians 5:12); they are entirely exempt from the canon law; they need to be enlightened and converted, not punished."

I think Holy Mother Church treats Protestants in this last manner. They’re situation is more similar to someone who has never been brought the full truth, rather than someone who rebelled against the Church. Makes sense to me.

---

 

[Steven_Merten]

Infidels, on the contrary, are not members of the ecclesiastical society, according to the words of St. Paul: Quid mihi de his qui fortis sunt, judicare? (1 Corinthians 5:12); they are entirely exempt from the canon law; they need to be enlightened and converted, not punished."

I think Holy Mother Church treats Protestants in this last manner. They’re situation is more similar to someone who has never been brought the full truth, rather than someone who rebelled against the Church. Makes sense to me.

Hello Genesis,

I looked up 1 Corinthians 5:12. Wow! It doesent exactly seem the Protestants would be flatered by St. Paul’s statement, if he is talking about them. Do you think the Protestants understand that Mother Church sees them in the light of St. Paul’s words?

NAB 1CO 5:9
I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral persons. I was not speaking of association with immoral people in this world, or the covetous or thieves or idolators. To avoid them, you would have to leave the world! What I really wrote about was your not associating with anyone who bears the title “brother” if he is immoral, covetous, an idolater, an abusive person, a drunkard, or a thief. It is clear thay you mst not eat with such a man. What business is it of mine to judge outsiders? It is no those inside the community you must judge? God will judge the others. "Expel the wicked man from your midst."

 

[Steven_Merten]

**in principle, those who have been baptized are subjects of the Church and her children even though they be rebellious children; they are under her laws or, at least, are exempt from them only so far as pleases the Church. **

Hello Genesis,

This statement would be more my concept of the Protestants in relation to the Church. Jesus put St. Peter and his Successors in leadership over all His followers. It is only up to Jesus, St. Peter, and his Successors who will not be held accountable to the leadership of Apostolic Successors and not the individuals themselves.

If the Pope has decided to disregard his authority, Church law, and Church punishments over the Protestants Jesus put him in authority over, then and only then would Protestants be free from Church law, papal authority and Church punishments. What the individual infidel Protestant decides in regard to who he chooses to have authority over him really has no lugitimacy and does not negate him from Christ’s will that St. Peter Successors have authority over him. .

So if the Church has put Protestants outside of Catholic authority, why have they done so? This does not seem to be the will of Jesus who commanded that all His followers be under the authority of St. Peter Successors. Should not the Pope put Protestants back under his authority, Church law and Church punishments, whether the Protestants like it or not? Would this not be more in line with the will of Jesus?

 

[wjp984]

I think the main thing that we have as Catholics is the Eucharist. Protestants are not allowed to receive the Eucharist. Catholics who are in a state of mortal sin are not supposed to receive the Eucharist. Therefore, by sinning against cannon law such as missing mass, the catholic has now put him or herself in the same situation as a protestant where he or she is not allowed or at least should not receive the Eucharist. The Catholic in a state of mortal since has put his or her soul in danger much in the same way a Protestant’s soul may or may not be in danger. I think Protestants can go to Heaven and I think Catholics who are not the best at practicing their faith and following cannon law can go to Heaven. It is just an easier path if you are able to follow Christ’s church and me in a state of grace to receive the Eucharist. So no, I do not think it is unfairr for Catholics to be held to certain standards that Protestants are not since we can receive the Eucharist which is only something Protestant can receive by joining the Catholic Church in which case he or she will be subject to the same laws as us.

 

[Steven_Merten]

Hello All,

Does anyone have a Church source where Church leaders assure Protestants they are not bound by Canon Law or Church punishments. A quote nearer Martin Luther’s “Reformation” would be prefered or a quote pre 1950s. Unless there is a point in history where Church punishments on Protestants were removed. Please share information if this is the case. A more modern quote would be good also but I fear such a quote would be biased by the Church’s modern desire for ecumenical unity.

Ever since I have heard of the concept that the Church restricts Her punishments only to Catholics, this has intrigued me. This seems counter productive to gaining converts. If a Protestant enjoys the eternal life benifites of Baptism but shares no threat of potentially spiritually deadly Church Punishments, why convert? Sneak reception of the Eucharist and Reconciliation, listen to the Church’s teaching on sin and use it to live a moral life, but why convert when it means straping on the threat of a multitude of, Catholic only, auto excommunications, auto anathemas and Church bindings on sin?

Soon after Luther’s “Reformation”, for the Church to come out and tell Protestants that they are still within the bosom of the Church for eternal salvation through Protestant Baptism but now outside the reach of the many Church punishments, would be amaizing to read about. If you have any good quotes from this era, please share.