Do our sins injure Jesus?

[po18guy]

No. Your (the generic you) sins cause him pain, but this pain was experienced then, not now. God is outside of time and so it is incorrect to think of God in the present as being logically disconnected from God in the past. Your sins still cause his pain in the logical sense, even though his pain preceded your sins chronologically.

Do you have a source or a link for this? Particularly from the Catechism.

All of the souls, either on earth, in purgatory or in heaven are parts of Christ’s mystical Body. Those in purgatory are known as the “Church suffering.” We certainly suffer here on earth. Since we are parts of Christ’s Body, and since He lives in us and we in Him, how can it be that He does not suffer? Is there some divorce, some detachment, some disconnect between Christ and His mystical Body? Not even spiritual pain?

To neatly compartmentalize His suffering into the past seems to me to overlook the foregoing.

Conversely, if Christ no longer suffers, why do we then suffer, if we are members of His Body and He lives in us?

At the time we were born, having original sin, but no ability to commit personal sin, it seems that you are claiming that we were still responsible for something that occurred before our creation - before our capacity to sin existed. Do we worship an ex post facto God?

 

[devoutchristian]

Do you have a source or a link for this? Particularly from the Catechism.

All of the souls, either on earth, in purgatory or in heaven are parts of Christ’s mystical Body. Those in purgatory are known as the “Church suffering.” We certainly suffer here on earth. Since we are parts of Christ’s Body, and since He lives in us and we in Him, how can it be that He does not suffer? Is there some divorce, some detachment, some disconnect between Christ and His mystical Body? Not even spiritual pain?

To neatly compartmentalize His suffering into the past seems to me to overlook the foregoing.

Conversely, if Christ no longer suffers, why do we then suffer, if we are members of His Body and He lives in us?

At the time we were born, having original sin, but no ability to commit personal sin, it seems that you are claiming that we were still responsible for something that occurred before our creation - before our capacity to sin existed. Do we worship an ex post facto God?

Baltimore Catechism No. 3 Lesson 8 Q. 409 part 4

We, members of Christ’s mystical body, sin, even though Christ no longer sins. So too our suffering does not mean that Christ suffers still. One event can logically cause another even if it chronologically follows the other event.

 

[po18guy]

I found this here, which seems to answer the question decisively:

Q. 409. What are the qualities of a glorified body?

A. The qualities of a glorified body are:

1. Brilliancy, by which it gives forth light;
2. Agility, by which it moves from place to place as rapidly as an angel;
3. Subtility, by which material things cannot shut it out;
4. Impassibility, by which it is made incapable of suffering.

 

[po18guy]

I found this here, which seems to answer the question decisively:

Of course, this is from the catechism, and, as I recall from another thread, the catechism is not infallible.

OK. Enough provocation.

 

[jimmy]

And of course, each sin individually contributes to the sum total of the sufferings the Lord endured in the Passion.

No it doesn’t. Jesus didn’t recieve a lashing for each individual sin ever committed. If you sin today, it isn’t adding for lashings to Jesus. That is a screwed up sense of salvation and justice. Jesus suffered the consequences of sin, which is death. He didn’t have to be punished for every individual sin of every man.

 

[reb108]

No it doesn’t. Jesus didn’t receive a lashing for each individual sin ever committed. If you sin today, it isn’t adding for lashings to Jesus. That is a screwed up sense of salvation and justice. Jesus suffered the consequences of sin, which is death. He didn’t have to be punished for every individual sin of every man.

Notebook IV, #1280 (page 461), “Today I learned with what aversion the Lord comes to a certain soul in Holy Communion. He goes to that heart as to a dark prison, to undergo torture and affliction. I kept begging His pardon and offering atonement for the offense.”

How am I to understand this, considering my original quesiton?

 

[jimmy]

Notebook IV, #1280 (page 461), “Today I learned with what aversion the Lord comes to a certain soul in Holy Communion. He goes to that heart as to a dark prison, to undergo torture and affliction. I kept begging His pardon and offering atonement for the offense.”

How am I to understand this, considering my original quesiton?

Where is it from? No ones diaries or journals are perfect, and I would say that entry is definitely a distortion of Christianity.

 

[Ion]

Notebook IV, #1280 (page 461), “Today I learned with what aversion the Lord comes to a certain soul in Holy Communion. He goes to that heart as to a dark prison, to undergo torture and affliction. I kept begging His pardon and offering atonement for the offense.”

How am I to understand this, considering my original quesiton?

I think you can understand it like this: is it like you going visiting somebody you love at his place, which is dirty and stinky, and you can’t help clean it better than the owner wants to because as soon as you clean it the owner will spoil it again…

 

[reb108]

Where is it from? No ones diaries or journals are perfect, and I would say that entry is definitely a distortion of Christianity.

I apologize for giving an incomplete reference. Those words were written by Saint Maria Faustina Kowalska in her “Diary.”

 

[Pugsly]

“I learned in the depths of my soul how horrible sin was, even the smallest sin, and how much it tormented the soul of Jesus” St. Maria Faustina

It’s not always wise to take everything a Saint says as fact…I remember this lil booklet quoting a play by play by a Saint on how Mary gave birth into the hands of angels…directly from her womb…no blood…no pain…no mess.

 

[POJIUJH]

It’s not always wise to take everything a Saint says as fact…I remember this lil booklet quoting a play by play by a Saint on how Mary gave birth into the hands of angels…directly from her womb…no blood…no pain…no mess.

If it was a play that saint probably didn’t want you to take it as a revelation, not that it couldn’t have happened (although you are quoting no pain as though it is a surprise, infact Mary did not suffer pain as she was Immaculate and not affected by the sin of Eve).

In any case, our sins do injure Our Lord. Even in Heaven in some way, I am sure of it, but even if I were wrong His sacrifice on the Cross was transcendent, just as He transcends time. There is nothing wrong with this quote from St Faustina, His sacrifice wasn’t a lump sum, it was the total combined suffering on account of each individual sin. I don’t doubt that if hadn’t lived the life I have, He might only have received 38 lashes. If not less.

 

[reb108]

If it was a play that saint probably didn’t want you to take it as a revelation, not that it couldn’t have happened (although you are quoting no pain as though it is a surprise, infact Mary did not suffer pain as she was Immaculate and not affected by the sin of Eve).

In any case, our sins do injure Our Lord. Even in Heaven in some way, I am sure of it, but even if I were wrong His sacrifice on the Cross was transcendent, just as He transcends time. There is nothing wrong with this quote from St Faustina, His sacrifice wasn’t a lump sum, it was the total combined suffering on account of each individual sin. I don’t doubt that if hadn’t lived the life I have, He might only have received 38 lashes. If not less.

Here are a few more quotes from Jesus. These are from Notebook V: “In return for My blessings, I get ingratitude. In return for My love, I get forgetfulness and indifference. My Heart cannot bear this…My heart is even more wounded by their distrust after a fall. It would be less painful if they had not experienced the goodness of My Heart…Oh how painful it is to Me that souls so seldom unite themselves to Me in Holy Communion…In order that you might know at least some of My pain, imagine…”

On one hand Jesus is certainly transcendental but He also deal with St. Faustina on a very very personal level, at times expressing to her the pain He sometimes feels because of mankind’s sin and neglect.

 

[POJIUJH]

Here are a few more quotes from Jesus. These are from Notebook V: “In return for My blessings, I get ingratitude. In return for My love, I get forgetfulness and indifference. My Heart cannot bear this…My heart is even more wounded by their distrust after a fall. It would be less painful if they had not experienced the goodness of My Heart…Oh how painful it is to Me that souls so seldom unite themselves to Me in Holy Communion…In order that you might know at least some of My pain, imagine…”

On one hand Jesus is certainly transcendental but He also deal with St. Faustina on a very very personal level, at times expressing to her the pain He sometimes feels because of mankind’s sin and neglect.

Good Lord! That is love.