Do Pagan/ Wiccan "spells" really work?

  • Thread starter Thread starter JudieK
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Milliardo said:
I don’t take much stock on that; most serious Wiccans will not announce they’re a witch, obviously because of the reprisals if one makes such a declaration.

True, but that can also be said of prayer; would it be less impressive then if one’ prayer for something be granted, and another’s prayer for the same thing is not? Both are not verifiable, and both are not repeatable results. So, in essence then, are both bogus? of course not. I am not saying casting spells is true or even the thing to do, but just to dismiss it offhand doesn’t work either, because in many cases, the spells do work.
Click to expand...
Umm no…this is just probablity. If I prayd to a little rubber figurine of superman Id get the % than if I cast a spell or prayer.
Anyone remember that study on the news if on prayer vs non prayer? The sick ppl recovered at the same rate in both cases 🙂
 
In general no. Remember Wicca is a religion that was started in the 1950’s and with shoddy research at that. So most of the spells are just made up really.
 
It seems to me that the concept of Christian prayer and spell casting are a bit different.

In Christian prayer, and most likely other religion’s prayers as well, it is more of a request to God. I can ask for a new car, but I may or may not get it. According to our tradition, God looks into our hearts and determines what we really need. He asks us to pray, so we do. This does not mean there is any probability involved. He either knows we need it (and gives it to us), or he knows we don’t need it (and we won’t get it).

As for spellcasting, I am not a Warlock, but I did play RP games back in the day. I have no problem with games like D&D, since it is just a game. But in that game, certain spellcasters do have a % chance to error out on spells. If Wiccan spellcasting works the same way, then I agree with you that we could say that spellcasting is on some sort of percentage system. What is that system? If there is probablilty involved, it should be measurable.

If the lady I talked to said that the monkey dust spell had a 1:20 ratio for success, then I would like to test that theory. However, if an expert pool player only misses shots on a 1:10 ratio, then the spell really has no bearing on the outcome. Technically it would, but it would be pretty hard to measure. I guess what I was looking for was a spell like that to at least have 1:2 chance (50/50 is still bad - again thinking of D&D it is pathetic actually), so we could see a pool player now missing quite a bit more shots. And even if it did work, the pool player could be having an “off” day, which means we should re-factor the average, and not just blame it on bad luck or spells. Heh, this is common by the way. Many players say, "Well NORMALLY I run the table, where in reality, if they look at all of their missed shots over an entire season, their average would be much lower. I guess I was just looking for a way to have spells show some quantifiable result, since it is based on probability, as you suggested.

So to sum it up, spell casting is based on probability (not sure I believe in spell casting, but we can agree on this point for the sake of theory). Prayers from God have nothing to do with probability. We get it if he deems it so.

Are there any other spells that you guys have heard about? The monkey dust one is very hard to prove, but something like fireball or lighting bolt (even if it is on a 1:20 ratio, would not need to be measured in the same way to show that it actually works).

What are your thoughts?
 
callador said:
It seems to me that the concept of Christian prayer and spell casting are a bit different.
Click to expand...
Yes, of course there are differences. In spellcasting, it is primarily one’s will. One might ask the deities for assistance, but ultimately it boils down to one willing the thing to happen. In one’s approach to God, it is God’s will that prevails. As you said, it is more of a request: if God wills it, then it is His will. Spellcasting is not like that–you really have to believe your spell will work, and believe that it can be achieved, or else the spell will not work.
 
ok im here to set a balance to many of these…all thats spells and rituals are is much like prayers that christians do, the only thing is that we have diffrent ways of doing them. and just like your god, our prayers are only when needed not wanted
 
Read An Exorcist Tells His Story by Gabriele Amorth.

And St.Benedict is the Patron Saint against witchcraft.
 
JudieK said:
I know this will come across as incredibly ignorant. I apologize in advance. My family recently returned from a vacation in Massachusetts, where we stopped in Salem. Of course at this time of year it is full of Halloween revelry, etc. Due to it’s past, Salem is a center for pagan/ Wiccan religious beliefs, with Witch shops and the like all over the place. Now I realize Pagans and Wiccans have a constitutional right to practice their faith… that’s fine. I also know that they claim to be totally benevolent and not at all associated with the Christian notion of the Devil and evil. My question is this: do pagan/Wiccan rituals actually DO anything? Do the spells they cast actually WORK? Has anyone proven this? And if God forbids witchcraft, and the spells do work, WHO would be responsible? Demons? I can’t believe that the “earth” and the elements… creation itself… holds magical powers and should be worshipped. Does anyone have insight into this? Thanks.
Click to expand...
Hi, yeah, they do work. I know, cos I cast them. I like to test myself, like Ivy, by going up against the odds to complete a spell. Wiccans are totally benevolant. If someone threatens to curse or hex you, they aren Wiccan, but a dark practitioner. My signature is the wiccan rede.
 
Wammy101 said:
Hi, yeah, they do work. I know, cos I cast them. I like to test myself, like Ivy, by going up against the odds to complete a spell. Wiccans are totally benevolant. If someone threatens to curse or hex you, they aren Wiccan, but a dark practitioner. My signature is the wiccan rede.
Click to expand...
Can you please make a spell to make broccoli and cauliflower taste like chocolate?
 
Wammy101 said:
Really wish I could Kellie, But that would be impossible. Sorry!!!

Cya
Wammy
Click to expand...
So you are basically saying that it is impossible to cast any old spell, but the ones that are cast and are successful are ones that are also open to the intervention of God making them happen ???
 
kellie said:
So you are basically saying that it is impossible to cast any old spell, but the ones that are cast and are successful are ones that are also open to the
intervention of God making them happen ???
Click to expand...
Yeah, you couldn’t just make up a rhyme to make it rain, you would have to gte the proper tools, like water, perhaps something to represent earth, a blue or white candle, the right words, stuff like that.
Cya,
Wammy
 
Wammy101 said:
Yeah, you couldn’t just make up a rhyme to make it rain, you would have to gte the proper tools, like water, perhaps something to represent earth, a blue or white candle, the right words, stuff like that.
Cya,
Wammy
Click to expand...
Well, assuming that you CAN obtain the right tools (they don’t sound terribly out-of-the-ordinary to me) … surely the need for rain in this parched brown land is such that it would be a great and useful way to employ your wiccan arts.

So really, why not? After all, I as a Catholic pray for rain - most every day! We surely do need it!
 
LilyM said:
Well, assuming that you CAN obtain the right tools (they don’t sound terribly out-of-the-ordinary to me) … surely the need for rain in this parched brown land is such that it would be a great and useful way to employ your wiccan arts.

So really, why not? After all, I as a Catholic pray for rain - most every day! We surely do need it!
Click to expand...
Another wiccan follower told me on these forums that they arent allowed to cast spells that interfere with nature, go figure.
Sounds like they have every excuse for when their spells dont work, and when they do work, they know we cant prove it was Gods intervention.
Typical.
 
I find the illogical bigotry in this thread to be outstanding. I’ve read insane things from “The Devil is behind spells!” (Funny since spells were invented long before the “Devil” was) and ridiculing Wiccans for believing in Fairies (They believe they reside on the Astral plane and not the physical world) yet catholics believe in some ghost who impregnated some 14 year old who was married to a 30 year old! Fifteen billion years is a bit of an age difference between Christ parents 😃 (assuming “God” really is the father of course)

And why all the bigotry against Wiccans? The Wiccan religion doesn’t believe in a Devil so how can they worship a Devil? See this is why christians aren’t a credible authority on other religions as they are all supposedly of the “Devil” according to them.

And if we compare catholicism to Wicca objectively we can see which one truely is more evil:

Catholicism: Gives false sense of entitlement to itself to falsely justify stealing land and resources from Native Americans via the bull of borgia.

Wicca: “Do what you want just harm nobody” is far more moral in one sentence then the entirety of the “holy” bible!

Catholicism: Encouraged and benefited from slavery

Wicca: Denounces slavery as immoral.

Catholicism: Kidnapped innocent people in the middle ages by accusing people of “Witchcraft”, raped them (including children), cut off their tongues, and stole their property. Needless to say if there is a hell the popes and inquisitors behind the inquisition are being tortured quite a bit.

Wicca: Are owed reparations from the Witch burnings as the church passed down the stolen wealth through generations. This applies to Atheist 😉 and Native Americans as well.

Catholicism: Believes stuff superstitious people wrote and therefore because they were superstitious believed in magic. And since there was alot of corruption and authorities had alot to hide they forbade witchcraft on the grounds that an astral projecter would catch them in action with their herem of children and animals. In other words a pedophile and person who commits bestiality is superstitious and afraid of getting caught via mystical means, so he bans witchcraft 😃 (Hey considering the bigotry against Pagans in the bible don’t complain that your “holy” books credibility is being attacked. Why does the catholic league ***** whenever catholicism is being criticized but they feel like they can be bigoted themselves? Respect other religions if you want others to respect yours).

Wicca: Doesn’t engage in “sin” since the man made invention of sin is outside their religious jurisdiction.

Catholicism: Burned people for KNOWING the irrefutable FACT that the Earth is round and revolves around the Sun (What other things were people right about that the churched killed people for?)

So I have unanimously determined Wicca to be more moral then catholicism. By the way catholicism still has PLENTY of negative credit with regards to theft, murder, rape, etc.
 
latin_rite said:
Does the easter bunny really bring you eggs? does santa claus really fly around the word in one night? Can Paris Hilton sing?
Click to expand...
Answer to every question is a resounding NO. Careful, you may be excommunicated for not believing in the Easter Bunny Lol 😃

All kidding aside there is no evidence of Jesus other then a really bad forgery (pretending Josephus said something he didn’t) “confirming” Jesus existed. The writing style was completely out of character for Josephus who wrote at length about even minor things. If Jesus was around then Josephus would have written much more then he did and have gone from Orthodox Judaism to being a christian.

As an Atheist I have no problem with people believing whatever superstition they want as long as said superstition doesn’t promote bigotry, racism, sexism, or homophobia which the “holy” bible does quite a bit of.
 
Sixtus said:
Well said Sandsmountainsli.

I have heard of spells working in Africa. Of healthy people dying not long after having spells put on them.

I also have heard of terrible things happening to new converts who retain belief in the power of witch doctors, who ‘spell’ them for their apostacy. I am sure they rest in Christ.

Discerning between spirits I ALWAYS pray for the protection of Christ in what I have perceived as ‘negative’ force. I have also praised God and that I feel is as powerful as it gets. Not that God only protects us when we praise Him but it is very good for us as it strengthens us. It also reminds us when we are praising God that He is right in it with us and next to us, protecting us.
Click to expand...

**If God allows new converts to Him to be enspelled by witch doctors, He is not much good at protecting His own 😦 **​

**Or could it be that the Christian god is weaker than the god or gods of the witch doctors ? :cool: :confused: 😦 😦 **
40.png
Sixtus:
I believe trust in God in the Trinity is always our best guide followed by not consulting or visiting places where dark forces are known to be at work. Leave that task to all but the strongest in spirit. Those called by God to ‘cast out’. That is not for the majority of us. Prevention is far better than cure 👍
Click to expand...

But He can’t be trusted, if you’re right; any more than a leaky boat can be trusted. Because this God who can be trusted, is not great enough (or good enough, or willing enough, or some combo of these) to protect converts.** Why follow a God like that, when the cost of doing so is that “terrible things” happen ? 😦 **​

That’s the trouble with Christianity: it sends mixed messages. God is to be trusted - but He mustn’t be trusted to protect converts, because He might not do so. This makes no sense. So converts are in the same jam as they were before, only this time they are in even greater danger. That is salvation** ? :eek: **
 
Saint_Michael said:
All Magick can’t be from the devil, or else the Magi who came when Christ was born were actually devil’s disciples.
Click to expand...

Maybe they were resigning their arts to Him, as it were.​

That said I don’t believe in magic, witches, warlocks, spells,or really anything else supernatural, I think the Earthly plain is devoid of any and all of this. If it weren’t proving and observing its reality would be possible, which so far it has never been observed.
Click to expand...

King James VI of Scotland (later James I of England as well) was equally sceptical - until a witch accused of raising a storm to destroy the ship in which he & his bride Anne of Denmark were returning to Scotland in 1590 told him what he had said to his bride on their wedding night.​

Not seeing, is not a compelling reason for scepticism, because it is possible that the phenomenon not observed is real, but, veiled by other phenomena. That a storm has not been traced to witchcraft, is evidence, but not proof,of its completely non-magical origin. Weathermen observe meteorological phenomena - magic is not one of these: so they don’t know that magic may not be involved at some point in what they do observe. A speedometer doesn’t register weather, but that doesn’t mean the weathermen have no job to do 🙂

Only things provable can be proved - & an inappropriate method of proof won’t prove that whatever is being attempted to be proved is the case.

This is no proof of the reality of magic, of course - it can’t be proved to be real, because some other hypothesis to explain its features is always a possibility; that’s not of itself a reason to deny it could happen. If it were to be tested for, presumably one would have to run a series of experiments in which a series of groups participate, including control groups; & confirm the results by some sort of overlapping multiple attestation. This could not prove causation, but it could provide a limited amount of confirmation of the reality of the phenomenon - or suggest it was not real; or even that it was mixed in character.

Has this ever been done** :cool: ?**
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top