Do people really go to Hell for masturbation and using birth control?

[scylla]

Yes, that’s what I’ve been taught. So it’s probably better not to tell young people of the gravity of masturbation since probably most of them will do it and might die in a car wreck right after doing it. If they don’t know it’s a sin then they are off the hook. Maybe thats why they don’t mention it in Catechism classes?

The reason why many don’t mention it in Catechism classes is that we are filling the Church with a bunch of wimps as a result of society being so.

Sin can be avoided, and truth must never be denied. There is a huge difference between sinning and not repenting and sinning and repenting. A person in Catechism class still has the ability to check to see if it is a sin, so not saying it is just like saying “why should I tell people it is wrong to use God’s name in vain?”

Again, just because it is socially acceptable doesn’t make it right.
God Bless
Scylla

 

[YinYangMom]

Yes, that’s what I’ve been taught. So it’s probably better not to tell young people of the gravity of masturbation since probably most of them will do it and might die in a car wreck right after doing it. If they don’t know it’s a sin then they are off the hook. Maybe thats why they don’t mention it in Catechism classes?

Sarcasm aside, bottom line:

Why do people keep looking to the pulpit or the schools to teach kids the truth?

PARENTS are obliged to educate their children in the ways of Our Lord. It’s part of the vocation of service to Him.

**Hubby and I **taught our preteen daughter and son about God’s teaching about marriage, love, lust, contraception, masturbation, invitro and all the other moral lessons to be learned.

We knew whatever they got from school, church, or family and friends would raise more questions they would not be comfortable asking or would be flat out contrary to church teaching.

We also taught them that we taught them these things because God requires it of us, just as He now requires of them their obedience to the teachings.

We made sure they understood that while the temptation in today’s world is great, and they may find themselves falling on these major issues along the way - that there is salvation in Reconciliation.

It is up to them to resist temptation - but they are not alone! They have guardian angels and loved ones who have passed to guide them and give them strength and they have Mary. That’s why they keep up their devotional prayers, and if/when they fall they get to confession asap.

Now as for young kids or immature kids - fully knowing and understanding the gravity of sin is questionable, so I’m under the impression committing **mortal **sin is difficult at that stage. That doesn’t mean we don’t keep teaching the subject until such time as they finally grasp the lesson - especially since it really is the work of the Holy Spirit to enlighten a person’s mind to such truths. But we Catholics can’t just sit back and do nothing. He relies on us doing our part - establishing the foundation, feeding people with Truth - until such time as He wills for them to understand.

 

[Pug]

So it’s probably better not to tell young people of the gravity of masturbation since probably most of them will do it and might die in a car wreck right after doing it. If they don’t know it’s a sin then they are off the hook. Maybe thats why they don’t mention it in Catechism classes?

I think the Church also teaches that sins are sins because they are bad. Doing bad things, even if in ignorance, can have huge ramifications. I know it is not the same, but say a person doesn’t know that smoking can hurt your lungs. I think it is wrong to keep silent. We should tell them that the damage can turn out to be severe. Their ignorance will not prevent the damage.

Presumably, masturbation is not good for you overall. God’s rules are not exterior to us, made-up rules. Hopefully he made them for our own good. If that is so, then repeated masturbation over time causes actual damage or harm. We should warn the person. What kind of damage could this be? Damage to self-integrity and understanding of the dignity of man overall, might be it. If the logic of how we are as sexual persons is real, then treating ourselves as other than we are will cause a break with reality, which can lead to other sins brought on by our lack of connection with who and what we are. It can cause a disorientation towards how to treat our fellow man and that could make us more likely to land in hell.

I don’t have an answer to what they teach in Catechism class. I agree that they sometimes seem to throw a soft pitch. This could be because most people teaching it can’t figure out any reason why it could harm someone to do it, so they can’t quite buy into the idea of it being a serious sin, so they don’t mention it for that reason. I can think of other reasons as well.

 

[Sailboat]

I think the Church also teaches that sins are sins because they are bad. Doing bad things, even if in ignorance, can have huge ramifications. I know it is not the same, but say a person doesn’t know that smoking can hurt your lungs. I think it is wrong to keep silent. We should tell them that the damage can turn out to be severe. Their ignorance will not prevent the damage.

Presumably, masturbation is not good for you overall. God’s rules are not exterior to us, made-up rules. Hopefully he made them for our own good. If that is so, then repeated masturbation over time causes actual damage or harm. We should warn the person. What kind of damage could this be? Damage to self-integrity and understanding of the dignity of man overall, might be it. If the logic of how we are as sexual persons is real, then treating ourselves as other than we are will cause a break with reality, which can lead to other sins brought on by our lack of connection with who and what we are. It can cause a disorientation towards how to treat our fellow man and that could make us more likely to land in hell.

I don’t have an answer to what they teach in Catechism class. I agree that they sometimes seem to throw a soft pitch. This could be because most people teaching it can’t figure out any reason why it could harm someone to do it, so they can’t quite buy into the idea of it being a serious sin, so they don’t mention it for that reason. I can think of other reasons as well.

Dear Pug, you are so smart. I always like your answers. Well done!

The way I see God, I think he tells us stuff for our own good, and I think the Church is like a benevolent parent who sometimes threatens us that we won’t get any Christmas presents if we don’t behave, but is doing it for our own good and we should be as good of children as we can, but we’re only children afterall.

 

[Sailboat]

The road to hell is stated very clearly in the gospels. Condemnation is earned by those who condemn and refuse to forgive. Period.

There is no sin or crime (except for the particular attitude that looks at Jesus and says “He has an evil spirit” which is just a different way of saying the same thing) that incurs condemnation.

Laws like the Ten commandments are meant to direct us towards life. If we fail to keep them, we lose a portion of life. But we only suffer suffer condemnation for our actions if we condemn others for doing what we do. Jesus says it over and over.

Follow the law and practice self-control. You will have a better life if you do. But if you want to avoid hell, just don’t send anyone else there.

Jim

Hi Jim I like your post. I think you make some great points. That’s very philosophical and it sounds like what we say in the Lord’s Prayer, that we’ll only be forgiven if we forgive. Alot of people are too condemning here and other places. I notice every time I bring up a philosophical or moral question I always get alot of cutting responses that sound like put downs. I think we all need to practice tolerance and forgiveness for the weaknesses of others because Jesus told us that he is without sin should throw the first stone.

 

[setter]

Hi Jim I like your post. I think you make some great points. That’s very philosophical and it sounds like what we say in the Lord’s Prayer, that we’ll only be forgiven if we forgive. Alot of people are too condemning here and other places. I notice every time I bring up a philosophical or moral question I always get alot of cutting responses that sound like put downs. I think we all need to practice tolerance and forgiveness for the weaknesses of others because Jesus told us that he is without sin should throw the first stone.

Though many folks have a hard “tolerating” the thought of God’s perfect and ultimate justice, which Jesus was very clear about. Why is this I wonder when his early disciples asked Him such a poignant question as “Will many be saved?”. Here is an interesting article regarding the same.

Most fundamentally, the idea that we may hope that hell is empty is against the teaching of Scripture. Even if one were to write off all of Scripture’s warnings about hell as purely hypothetical, Scripture directly asserts that many will not be saved.

In Luke’s Gospel, Jesus is asked, “Lord, will those who are saved be few?” He replies by stating, “Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able” (Luke 13:23-24). Given the question that prompts it, Jesus’ answer cannot be interpreted to mean anything other than that many will not be saved. There is nothing conditional about the question or Jesus’ answer. He does not say, “If someone does this then he will be damned” or “Anyone who does this will be damned.” He says that there are many who fail to enter—and the context is salvation.

The same is indicated elsewhere in the Gospels, such as when Jesus tells us that on the last day “many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers’” (Matt. 7:22-23). Again, none of this is hypothetical. Jesus says “many will” be cast away from him

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catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=795

 

[jmcrae]

Maybe thats why they don’t mention it in Catechism classes?

Actually the reason I don’t talk about sex in general in Catechism class is because that’s the parents’ job.

I mention general principles as they come up, and certainly I answer their questions truthfully, but I don’t typically permit a great deal of discussion about sexuality in my classroom.

The reason is that kids, even if they are all the same age (my group varies in age) are at different stages of development. Some of them are still playing with trucks and dolls (too early to discuss sex); others are already dating (and hopefully have received detailed information about Church teaching from their parents and confessors, already).

 

[elvisman]

Actually the reason I don’t talk about sex in general in Catechism class is because that’s the parents’ job.

I mention general principles as they come up, and certainly I answer their questions truthfully, but I don’t typically permit a great deal of discussion about sexuality in my classroom.

The reason is that kids, even if they are all the same age (my group varies in age) are at different stages of development. Some of them are still playing with trucks and dolls (too early to discuss sex); others are already dating (and hopefully have received detailed information about Church teaching from their parents and confessors, already).

**I can see your point when it comes to the really young kids, but I teach Track II Confirmation class and teaching against fornication and masturbation is in the curriculum. I think it should be at that age. **

These kids already know about “the birds and the bees” and that is the parents’ job. They need to know what the Church teaches about these matters, which should also be reiterated by the parents.

 

[Strider]

Yes, that’s what I’ve been taught. So it’s probably better not to tell young people of the gravity of masturbation since probably most of them will do it and might die in a car wreck right after doing it. If they don’t know it’s a sin then they are off the hook. Maybe thats why they don’t mention it in Catechism classes?

Good idea! We could also give them all loaded handguns with absolutely no training or information on gun safety.
The phrase “invincible ignorance,” was used above. There’s another one, “obstinate ignorance,” which Sailboat seems to favor. “If I don’t let myself find out it’s a sin, I’ll be okay.”
Don’t count on it. As far as not telling kids about masturbation and mortal sin, I would recommend Ezekielk 3:18 - 20 and 33:8, 9. You also might want to take a peek at Gen 38: 8 - 11 and read about Onan.
You see, it’s not necessarily what we consider serious but disobedience to God that is the grave matter. He decides, and he reuires obedience, in what we consider small things as well as large.
And to answer the OP: YES! I believe people really go to hell for these things.

 

[trogiah]

Though many folks have a hard “tolerating” the thought of God’s perfect and ultimate justice, which Jesus was very clear about. Why is this I wonder when his early disciples asked Him such a poignant question as “Will many be saved?”. Here is an interesting article regarding the same.
.
catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=795
Most fundamentally, the idea that we may hope that hell is empty is against the teaching of Scripture. Even if one were to write off all of Scripture’s warnings about hell as purely hypothetical, Scripture directly asserts that many will not be saved.

In Luke’s Gospel, Jesus is asked, “Lord, will those who are saved be few?” He replies by stating, “Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able” (Luke 13:23-24). Given the question that prompts it, Jesus’ answer cannot be interpreted to mean anything other than that many will not be saved. There is nothing conditional about the question or Jesus’ answer. He does not say, “If someone does this then he will be damned” or “Anyone who does this will be damned.” He says that there are many who fail to enter—and the context is salvation.

The same is indicated elsewhere in the Gospels, such as when Jesus tells us that on the last day “many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers’” (Matt. 7:22-23). Again, none of this is hypothetical. Jesus says “many will” be cast away from him

In my orginal post, I don’t think I was implying that hell wasn’t real or that not many people would go there. I was pointing out what leads to it. yes many people experience condemnation. It happens because most people can not resist the temptation to stand in judgement of others. Jesus says it over and over in parables and in straight forward words. Those who condemn will be condemned. Those who forgive will be forgiven.

I can’t think of a single time he mentioned the dangers of masturbation. He did meet a woman caught in the act of adultery (the worst of sexual sins) He didn’t treat the sin lightly, he actually told those who brought her to him to go ahead and stone her - with the suggestion that the one who was without sin should through the first.

When no one followed through, he warned her she would do well to avoid that sin any more. But he didn’t automatically consign her to hell.

Jim

 

[Nullasalus]

I find it’s usually a mistake to talk about sins in the context of ‘By this one act, you’re risking eternal damnation!’ Instead, take a step back, and ask whether the act is right or wrong regardless of any talk of damnation.

So… would anyone disagree with masturbation and birth control being wrong/sinful? That’s the real question. Attaching it to hell is deceptive. Reasonably, there are things we can do that may not send us to hell, but for a variety of reasons (including moral and spiritual) we should not do them anyway.

 

[Sailboat]

I find it’s usually a mistake to talk about sins in the context of ‘By this one act, you’re risking eternal damnation!’ Instead, take a step back, and ask whether the act is right or wrong regardless of any talk of damnation.

So… would anyone disagree with masturbation and birth control being wrong/sinful? That’s the real question. Attaching it to hell is deceptive. Reasonably, there are things we can do that may not send us to hell, but for a variety of reasons (including moral and spiritual) we should not do them anyway.

Excellent point. Hey, did you guys notice that I made it back to ‘senior member’ status?

 

[drforjc]

Attaching it to hell is deceptive.

How so? Please elaborate on how it is deceptive.
The church teaches that even one mortal sin extinguishes sanctifying grace in the soul, and that without sanctifying grace one cannot get to heaven.

 

[Nullasalus]

How so? Please elaborate on how it is deceptive.
The church teaches that even one mortal sin extinguishes sanctifying grace in the soul, and that without sanctifying grace one cannot get to heaven.

The same Church refuses to definitively comment on the salvation/damnation of Pontius Pilate or Judas. Or, really, the damnation of anyone in particular, including Hitler.

As for deceptive - I could go on about this, but the prime reason is because it assumes knowledge we simply do not have. Is one act of using birth control or masturbating enough to land you in hell? You can suppose culpability, states of mind, etc to argue yes. On the other hand, you can also argue that Original Sin and the basic state of man is enough to warrant such a result anyway. We do not know how God will judge a specific individual or sin - we know God is just. At the same time, we CAN know what is or is not sinful, why it is or isn’t, how it affects us, etc.

It’s far more productive to talk about sin and the harm it causes to the soul, to daily life, etc. It’s along the lines of ‘Why should you not commit perjury?’ - The ‘ultimate’ result (You can go to prison) should not be the first reason not to, if only because there are other, more pertinent reasons perjury is wrong regardless of whether you go to prison because of it.

 

[DCD]

If we have doubts about this sin how about shopping at the mall on Sunday? Guess what that sin is enough to send you to hell. As far as passing judgement on individuals that is in the hands of the Father.

Peace,
David

 

[Sailboat]

If we have doubts about this sin how about shopping at the mall on Sunday? Guess what that sin is enough to send you to hell. As far as passing judgement on individuals that is in the hands of the Father.

Peace,
David

You’ve gotta be kidding? Going to the Mall doesn’t send you to Hell, no way. I think you are way off on that one.

 

[Nullasalus]

You’ve gotta be kidding? Going to the Mall doesn’t send you to Hell, no way. I think you are way off on that one.

I think DCD may be referring to the idea that (and I’ve heard this before - and can’t say I diagree with it) one willful sin is enough to warrant a lack of salvation. God, in His mercy, is not so fierce.

 

[DCD]

You’ve gotta be kidding? Going to the Mall doesn’t send you to Hell, no way. I think you are way off on that one.

Sailboat,

When we stand before Jesus will he condem us or will we condem ourselves? Keep the Lord’s Day is one of the commandments. Now the commandments of God do not change just because our culture has changed or do they?

Peace,
David

 

[DCD]

Sailboat,

I do not want to give the impression that I am legalistic. In trying to have a well formed conscience and part of that formation is from God’s revealed Word I need to be honest. The third commandment has to do with love of God. How will I as a adopted child of God explain to him that yes God that was me in the mall that day giving glory to you when I was eating that slice of pizza and buying that Steeler T-shirt. Yes Lord really I consecrated that day for you hey I gave my hour at MASS for you I mean I was their a whole hour. Do you see where I am going with this? I do not want to have this coversation with him.

Peace,
David

 

[setter]

The road to hell is stated very clearly in the gospels. Condemnation is earned by those who condemn and refuse to forgive. Period.

There is no sin or crime (except for the particular attitude that looks at Jesus and says “He has an evil spirit” which is just a different way of saying the same thing) that incurs condemnation.

Laws like the Ten commandments are meant to direct us towards life. If we fail to keep them, we lose a portion of life. But we only suffer suffer condemnation for our actions if we condemn others for doing what we do. Jesus says it over and over.

Follow the law and practice self-control. You will have a better life if you do. But if you want to avoid hell, just don’t send anyone else there.

Jim

You are incorrect. The measure that we use to measure others will be the measure that is measured out to us; judge lest you be judged. By this the inspired Word of God is warning that to stand in judgment of others and to deprive others of the mercy and forgiveness of God, requires God’s justice in itself, as in one must face their own sin of presumming condemnation and their own lack of extending God’s mercy.

However, this is not the only criteria and basis in which souls face the justice and consequence of God, even to the point of self-condemnation. Yours is a gross over simplification and distortion of the reality of God’s justice and mercy. One is condemned if they gradually over time or in a single act sever their saving [sanctifying grace] relationship with God.

Here are examples of condemnation before the justice of God in which none of your sole criteria for consigning one’s soul to eternal damnation and torment is evidenced:

“Not every one who says to me, Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, **but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven**. On that day many will say to me, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, `I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’” Matthew 7:21-23

“He also who had received the one talent came forward, saying, Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you did not winnow; so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here you have what is yours.' But his master answered him, You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sowed, and gather where I have not winnowed? Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. So take the talent from him, and give it to him who has the ten talents. For to every one who has will more be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away. And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness; there men will weep and gnash their teeth.’” Matthew 25: 24-30

“Then he will say to those at his left hand, Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' Then they also will answer, Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?’ Then he will answer them, `Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.’ And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25: 41-46

“Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.” 1Corinthian 6: 9-10

“Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption; but he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.” Galatians 6: 7-8