Do Posters on CAF Truly Want to Understand Each Other?

[EmmaSowl]

I am guilty of attempting to use quick, easy quips to smash opponents. Without pointing any specific finger, I believe quite a few Catholics here are guilty of the same thing.

Many of my posts have been spurred by anger, and I am glad that CAF helped me see that. But I hate the CAF guidelines which promote a fake, nice arena which allows gross insults to be hurled as long as they are presented in a civilized way.

Luckily, my deletions and suspensions have taught me how to speak in this forum. And, as we are now in an election year, I would like to create a truly non-judgmental political thread - one which explains people like me and also explains people unlike me.

This is a thread for diverse people who want to learn to understand each other.

My background: raised atheist leftist. Registered Socialist at 18. Registered Republican at 20 - solely in order to vote against Reagan in the primaries. Registered Democrat for nearly two decades. Converted to Catholicism in 1993. Voted for Bush2 (holding my nose) in 2000 solely because of the abortion issue. Changed parties a few years later (now Republican).

I was made sick by the Republican debates in 2016. I was a Cruz supporter. When Trump won the nomination by what seemed like bullying tactics to me, I had physical symptoms of disgust.

But I was left with a binary choice: A bombastic reality TV star whom I believed would say anything to get votes and the Queen of War and Abortion. Holding my nose again, I chose the unknown over the known.

I am sooooooooooooooo happy about my vote (which, lol, didn’t count since it was made in CA).

For Catholics who still feel as I did in 2016, I want to offer this 26-minute documentary which insults no one but attempts to explain the last 4 years from a working-class POV.

It is my hope that Trump-cringing Catholics who believe Christ loves everyone will watch this in an effort to understand what they see as incredible.

I am not urging a vote; I am urging understanding between factions.

I will watch/read opposing videos/articles linked in this thread. It is my hope that, no matter what happens in 2020, Catholics will grow to understand each other better.

Note: I posted this in another thread; I hope that action does not ban discussion of the video for its own sake.

 

[niceatheist]

The question is can you understand why many won’t vote for trump.

 

[EmmaSowl]

Naturally I can. If Clinton had not been the other option, I probably would not have voted Trump.

Can you understand why people voted Trump?

 

[niceatheist]

I certainly can. But around here voting for Trump ha been strongly asserted as a religious duty by some. Even you strongly suggest it in your initial post.

 

[EmmaSowl]

How did I do that?

 

[PaulinVA]

Interesting video.

I am trying to be open. Long-time posters know my views have been changing/evolving over the past years.

I’ve live my adult life on the east coast, and I know my experiences are different from people in other parts of the country, I find it fascinating to talk to you guys and learn where you are coming from.

But, I will never understand the attraction of Trump.

 

[EmmaSowl]

I am trying to be open. Long-time posters know my views have been changing/evolving over the past years.

Brother, I relate! Let’s pray for each other.

But, I will never understand the attraction of Trump.

Never say never. ;p

But seriously, here is how I went from a physically sick, hold-the-nose Trump voter to someone who can’t wait to vote Trump this year:

1. Record low unemployment, especially in minority communities.
2. A Supreme Court which just might protect the unborn.
3. A 3% raise to federal employees (this is entirely selfish - hubby is a fed fireman; fed firemen make very low wages compared to other firemen; Bush gave the fed firemen a raise; Obama took it away; Trump is giving them a raise - again, very selfish on my part).
4. A renewed sense of comedy and respect for new mediums: I love the internet; I love that regular schmoes now have a public voice, unlike the past where only the elites could broadcast; I love Monty Python, South Park, It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia and all comedies which challenge the status quo - I love George Carlin and his rants against word propaganda. I finally recognized that Roosevelt figured out radio; Kennedy figured out TV; and now Trump has figured out the internet and dominated it with his hilarious memes.

Do I like everything Trump does? Heck, no! Do I like everything he tweets? Heck, no!

But I do like record unemployment, economic growth, prison reform, and an atmosphere where people like me are not afraid to say what they think.

Lol, I also like Tim Pool - one of the founding members of Vice and the first journalist to use drones and Facebook Livestream to cover Occupy Wall Street. Tim (a self-described “milk-toast, left-leaning, centrist, fence-sitting Democrat”) has been warning Dems for years that they are shooting themselves in the foot, but most of the people who now watch him are glad that the Dems are shooting themselves in the foot, lol.

You might want to check the dude out on YouTube. I will check out anyone online that you recommend.

Regardless of how we vote, let’s pray that our country and the world grows closer to the values that are heaven-sent.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

I am guilty of attempting to use quick, easy quips to smash opponents. Without pointing any specific finger, I believe quite a few Catholics here are guilty of the same thing.

Many of my posts have been spurred by anger, and I am glad that CAF helped me see that. But I hate the CAF guidelines which promote a fake, nice arena which allows gross insults to be hurled as long as they are presented in a civilized way.

Luckily, my deletions and suspensions have taught me how to speak in this forum. And, as we are now in an election year, I would like to create a truly non-judgmental political thread -

I wish you had ended your post here and not invited yet another debate about Trump. So I will pretend that you did end it here and respond accordingly.

I can confirm a similar experience to yours as far as suspensions and posts removed. In every single case, after some reflection, I had to admit to myself that the moderators were right. I feel like I am on the road to being more charitable, respectful, and open to understanding the other.

 

[EmmaSowl]

Yes, I too feel I’m being more charitable.

However, there is still a voice inside me which rejects becoming a Stepford Wife.

 

[Lou2U]

I watched the first minute of that video and couldn’t watch anymore, sorry. It begins with arguing that voters who wanted Trump/Brexit were immediately demonised as racist/unintelligent etc by the (undefined) ‘establishment’. I can’t speak for Trump, but living in the UK I can say that this depiction shows only the most extreme reactions and ignores much of the nuance that exists. I think this is one of the most serious problems when people want to try and understand each other - by ignoring or downplaying the centre between the extremes makes everything black and white when in reality it isn’t that at all.

I don’t think that video creates understanding at all. Instead, it does the very thing it is trying to argue against - chronically misunderstanding the position of the other viewpoints.

I like the idea of your thread though It’s a good idea, especially to mark a new decade.

 

[EmmaSowl]

but living in the UK I can say that this depiction shows only the most extreme reactions and ignores much of the nuance that exists.

So, with a 72% turnout, only the extremist reactions were depicted?

I like the idea of your thread though It’s a good idea, especially to mark a new decade.

Thanks. God bless.

 

[Lou2U]

So, with a 72% turnout, only the extremist reactions were depicted?

I was speaking about the video. In the first minute, it argued the ‘establishment’ responded by saying those who voted to leave were racist or uneducated. That was only true of a tiny minority of people. That’s why I don’t think the video is really helpful - it seeks to further divide and it isn’t accurate.

 

[EmmaSowl]

Since I do not live in England, I will defer to your experience after the Brexit vote.

In America, citizens were shamed by the mainstream media for voting for Trump.

What do you think of the 2nd overwhelming Brexit vote which happened after this documentary was made?

 

[Lou2U]

What do you think of the 2nd overwhelming Brexit vote which happened after this documentary was made?

Do you mean the election the UK had just a few weeks ago? (Just to make sure before I type out a long rambly answer )!

 

[Theo520]

The video highlights that people who wanted to control immigration were not xenophobic, that they as a group were fine with immigrants, just not the rapid numbers.

 

[EmmaSowl]

Yes.

12345

 

[redal]

I wish you had ended your post here and not invited yet another debate about Trump.

I hear ya, Leaf!
This may show that CAF is just Facebook with a religious banner, especially World News.

 

[ontheway1]

But seriously, here is how I went from a physically sick, hold-the-nose Trump voter to someone who can’t wait to vote Trump this year:

1. Record low unemployment, especially in minority communities.
2. A Supreme Court which just might protect the unborn.
3. A 3% raise to federal employees (this is entirely selfish - hubby is a fed fireman; fed firemen make very low wages compared to other firemen; Bush gave the fed firemen a raise; Obama took it away; Trump is giving them a raise - again, very selfish on my part).
4. A renewed sense of comedy and respect for new mediums: I love the internet; I love that regular schmoes now have a public voice, unlike the past where only the elites could broadcast; I love Monty Python, South Park, It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia and all comedies which challenge the status quo - I love George Carlin and his rants against word propaganda. I finally recognized that Roosevelt figured out radio; Kennedy figured out TV; and now Trump has figured out the internet and dominated it with his hilarious memes.

Do I like everything Trump does? Heck, no! Do I like everything he tweets? Heck, no!

But I do like record unemployment, economic growth, prison reform, and an atmosphere where people like me are not afraid to say what they think.

This about sums it up for me as well. You can hate what Trump says, but have to support what he does. If reason trumps emotion, then you play your strong suit and vote for Trump.

 

[Lou2U]

Well, firstly I wouldn’t call it a second overwhelming Brexit vote because it was an election, not a referendum, and it was based on much more than just Brexit. Although Brexit did of course have a major role.

I think the key to understanding what happened in the election lies more with looking at the failure of the parties to the left - by this I mean primarily Labour and Lib Dems. Under Corbyn, Labour have shifted much more to the left, just as the Conservatives have shifted much more to the right than they used to be. So Labour have lost a lot of voters because they’ve moved towards the far left, and the Conservatives have picked voters up from the UKIP/Brexit party. Corbyn himself is also massively unpopular - he’s not favoured by the media, as the Conservative party is, he has been accused of not dealing with antisemitism within the Labour party for years and he also has a lot of links to groups which are problematic, to understate the obvious. Labour have also been accused of taking their traditional voters for granted, and not moving with the times to offer voters what they want. So with this backdrop, it’s easier to see that things are about more than Brexit. The Lib Dems were absolutely hopeless - their campaign was a disaster, and their tone put a lot of people off. An email from the Lib Dems told people they actually didn’t want their vote if they disagreed with something the LD’s put in their manifesto.

When Brexit comes into it - Labour didn’t have an explainable strategy for Brexit. The Conservatives were able to play on people’s fatigue and disillusion with Brexit, and persuade them that they were the only party who would get it done. Too many Labour activists either took traditional Labour supporters for granted, or treated them as racist/uneducated (a small minority, but there, nonetheless). This put off a lot of traditional Labour voters who also voted to leave. Labour was also hammered because they failed to create alliances with other remain-backing parties. If they’d have done that, anyone wanting to vote for a remain party would have had one option, rather than up to three. This is where the Conservatives really gained - they are the major party for leave in England, whereas there is Labour, Lib Dems and Greens (as well as the SNP in Scotland and Plaid Cymru in Wales) for remain.

When the vote was examined, 53% of people voted for a remain-leaning party. But because that support was split between a lot of parties, the Conservatives gained the majority. So it isn’t as clear-cut as to suggest the election was what a second referendum would show.

Apologies for the essay! And I’m sorry in advance if what I’ve written isn’t particularly clear.

 

[LateranBasilica]

I am guilty of attempting to use quick, easy quips to smash opponents.

Bishop Barron has several youtubes on using Social Media that are quite fruitful.

CAF guidelines which promote a fake, nice arena which allows gross insults to be hurled as long as they are presented in a civilized way.

I believe selecting the point ‘something else’ within the flag system , allows the opportunity to explain the nature of the insult.