Do Posters on CAF Truly Want to Understand Each Other?

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Thank you for the British insight. (I’m half-British and love watching documentaries about the UK).

But, honestly, after reading your post, I am left with concluding that British citizens voted (twice!) overwhelmingly to free themselves from European rule.
 
EmmaSowl said:
But, honestly, after reading your post, I am left with concluding that British citizens voted (twice!) overwhelmingly to free themselves from European rule.
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If you were being sincere about folks trying to understand each other, I think you should read his post again. He went to great pains to explain all of the factors that played into the second vote.
 
P.S. Are you speaking of flagging posts? I have never flagged a CAF post and I hope I never will. I believe in free speech and the concept that the best way to counter bad ideas is with good ideas.

I hate censorship.
 
Thank you for making me self-evaluate.

I am very interested in why things happen. I am not as interested in why things didn’t happen.

Brexit happened twice. Whatever the reasons, that is not a fluke.

I appreciate that many factors went into the second vote. But the second vote is still what it is.

My position is that America is about to face a second vote, and I think it will be overwhelming. Those who hate the results might want to reflect upon why things are happening as they are.

If I am wrong and the American 2020 vote does not go as I predict, then I will reflect upon why my thinking was so off base.
 
EmmaSowl said:
I appreciate that many factors went into the second vote. But the second vote is still what it is.
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In other words, you aren’t interested in understanding where Lou is coming from. You are only interested in your particular way of seeing things?
EmmaSowl said:
Those who hate the results might want to reflect upon why things are happening as they are.
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I see. So, you are only interested in other people understanding your point of view?
 
We will have to agree to disagree on Brexit 😉 but I agree with you about the US 2020 election result. I think the Democrats are suffering from the same issues as Labour in the UK. They’re both squabbling between factions within the party, with no strong leader emerging to move things forward. And neither are listening to what their voters are saying, they’re assuming what they want and then doubling down on those assumptions when voters reject them.

Obviously this is a generalisation, but this is the impression this Brit has of the Democrats across the pond.
 
mrsdizzyd said:
I see. So, you are only interested in other people understanding your point of view?
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While I am definitely interested in that (because it is so rare where I live), I am still interested in other’s views. Even Lou seems to think my predictions about the upcoming USA election are probably true.

While it is quite instructive to understand the arguments of the “losers” in any conflict, it is more instructive to understand the arguments of the “winners” because that is what shapes history.
 
Here is the perfect alternative to the on the nose right and left. The American Solidarity Party. If all Christians got behind this platform and got ‘write-ins’ approved, what a major force Christians could be!!! My prayers for the US feature the success of this platform!

 
LeafByNiggle said:
I wish you had ended your post here and not invited yet another debate about Trump. So I will pretend that you did end it here and respond accordingly.

I can confirm a similar experience to yours as far as suspensions and posts removed. In every single case, after some reflection, I had to admit to myself that the moderators were right. I feel like I am on the road to being more charitable, respectful, and open to understanding the other.
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@LeafByNiggle, I remember years ago that whenever I ventured into the news forum (which I rarely do anymore) you were always a “force to be reckoned with.” Recently, I took a look in there and I want you to know that you are well on the road to being all the things you mentioned. I definitely noticed the change in you before you even posted in this thread. Really. It was nice to see. 🙂 I agree that the OP should have ended Where you said and not turned into another typical CAF thread…
 
Some do, but some don’t. It’s a mixed bag. I think there’s a lot of agenda posting that goes on and those are the folks who seem to have the same arguments over and over again.
 
EmmaSowl said:
While it is quite instructive to understand the arguments of the “losers” in any conflict, it is more instructive to understand the arguments of the “winners” because that is what shapes history.
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I’ve always been more interested in the loser’s story because to so often goes untold.

As to the election, I think Trump’s victory is a foregone conclusion. I’m an unaffiliated moderate. It’s a part of my process to make sure I can understand and articulate each side’s position. If I didn’t, I’d never be able to figure out who to vote for.

While painfully one-sided, I thought the documentary you linked to was quite good.
 
mrsdizzyd said:
I’ve always been more interested in the loser’s story because to so often goes untold.
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I agree with you. And I think you can learn a lot from the losing side - both about the loser, and why the winners won.
 
Lou2U said:
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mrsdizzyd:
I’ve always been more interested in the loser’s story because to so often goes untold.
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I agree with you. And I think you can learn a lot from the losing side - both about the loser, and why the winners won.
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Precisely.

To get back to the OP, I think this is why it is so important for ALL sides to try to understand each other even if you perceive yourself to be on the “winning” side.
 
Just to be factual for a moment: more people voted for Clinton than Trump. More people voted for parties opposed to the Conservative Party in the UK than voted for Conservative candidates. In each case the election result results from flaws in the respective countries democratic system.
 
FiveLinden said:
In each case the election result results from flaws in the respective countries democratic system.
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I won’t speak to the UK side of it, but in the USA the Electoral College protects against the tyranny of the majority. We have a Republic, and not a democracy for precisely this point.

Deacon Christopher
 
mrsdizzyd said:
To get back to the OP, I think this is why it is so important for ALL sides to try to understand each other even if you perceive yourself to be on the “winning” side.
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I agree with this. However, I have not felt myself to be on the “winning” side. The more TV I watch, the more I’m told I’m a loser.

That’s why I felt the urge to present a video which I felt explained why the “winners” won and why they should not be ashamed of winning.

In other words, I felt the need to present to confused Catholics why other Catholics did things that turned our worldview around.

I think we live in historical times (ACK - the Chinese curse: “May you live in interesting times”!). If I’m correct, then it’s best to get the arguments/feelings out ASAP so future historians will have an easier time of it.

Forgive me for being snarky, partisan, all bad things - because with my atheist, leftist upbringing and love for irreverent comedy that is the way this PTSD-sufferer rolls. I’m not saying it’s right. I’m saying that’s how it is.

Joe Rogan (whom I can’t believe I’m gaining respect for) has a podcast with millions of viewers which can be seen on YouTube. His shows can run 2-3 hours with just talk. He has said that it takes at least an hour of talk before people start getting real honest.

I think that is true of passionate and honest people in any medium. If there are differences (in character, presentation, whatever), it takes awhile to figure out where the other is coming from, but It can be done - especially if done for Christ.

Somewhere above you said something to the effect that I only wanted to be understood, but I did not want to understand. It’s highly possible that you’re right.

Lol, because I can list 100 reasons to justify myself (hyperbole!), I will ask you to hand-feed me toward a different kind of open-mindedness than I’ve so-far had.

I want to meet your challenge. I want to understand the other POV. Please give me one example (either why Trump is worse than Clinton or why Britain should stay in the EU) and I will chew on that example and not reply immediately and will reflect and ponder.

I’m not being a smart-aleck with my “one example” request. I’m being a realist. I know my limitations. I can only deal with one new fact at a time.

God bless us.
 
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