Do prisons really help?

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TheOne33

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What do you guys think? Norway and Sweden have EXTREMELY nice ‘prisons’ and their return rate is half of the U.S. How can the government imagine violent people living in a violent place becoming less violent? :confused: :confused: :confused:
 
A problem with our justice system in America. Ever wonder why the bishops (as a whole) have criticized our justice system?
 
But who’s the wise guy that came up with our current “corrections” system.
 
I can only speak of prisons in Illinois, but the prisons here have gyms, yards with exercise equipment, cable TV, academic and vocational schools, and a commissary where inmates can buy radios, TVs, blue jeans, sneakers, and all sorts of food. When I retired, inmates were paid 33 cents a day for just being there. Add to that the 3 hot meals a day and a warm bed to sleep in. For some of these guys life is much better on the inside than on the outside. I knew of a couple that had to be forced to leave.

P.S. A lot of them didn’t have to worry about drive by shootings either.
 
pete_29 said:
IFor some of these guys life is much better on the inside than on the outside. I knew of a couple that had to be forced to leave.
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They’re institutionalized and that’s a big part of the problem. Often the inmates seem to end up going to crime college in prison or become so institutionalized they can’t function in the real world. Neither is great for creating productive citizens…
 
On the topic of prisons in Norway and Sweden, economic disparity is a big factor in crime in the US (in my opinion, at least). Countries that have more equality of income (and a good standard of living i.e. not communist or under a dictatorship) have less violent crime. I think an advantage of more capitalistic societies is that the standard of living is improved for all ( medicine, technology, cars etc) but the poor bear the weight of being the lowest in society in their soul which leads to many social ills.

I think the current “justice system” is harmful to society in many ways. It unnecessarily destroys families. Don’t get me wrong, I think violent criminals (especially murderers) should be locked up. However, I think the current system is too quick to cast away those who have made poor decisions (often because society left them few good choices). These are not excuses for sins, but just a way to say that I think the current system makes things worse in many ways.
 
pete_29 said:
When I retired, inmates were paid 33 cents a day for just being there. .
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Pete,
In all sincerity I don’t think they are making out on that deal. I’m sure that most would gladly pay the 33 cents a day for the longing of freedom in their souls. I am not saying that some people do not deserve to be there, but the same type of argument of good conditions is what allowed slave masters to condone ( in their minds atleast) holding slaves. I imagine if all people were set free from prison very few would ask to return.

Being made in God’s image we all deserve a measure of dignity. Material goods can help to contribute to dignity, but unless we absolutely have to imprison people, we are unnecessarily taking away possibly their highest form of dignity- their freedom.

Peace, Brother.

-Ryan
 
Mr_Kooper_513 said:
Pete,
In all sincerity I don’t think they are making out on that deal. I’m sure that most would gladly pay the 33 cents a day for the longing of freedom in their souls. I am not saying that some people do not deserve to be there, but the same type of argument of good conditions is what allowed slave masters to condone ( in their minds atleast) holding slaves. I imagine if all people were set free from prison very few would ask to return.

Being made in God’s image we all deserve a measure of dignity. Material goods can help to contribute to dignity, but unless we absolutely have to imprison people, we are unnecessarily taking away possibly their highest form of dignity- their freedom.

Peace, Brother.

-Ryan
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When I went to the Academy, there was an inmate cook in the cafeteria. I was told by some of the staff there that every time he got out, he robbed the same VFW. I can’t tell you how many fathers and sons and brothers I saw come through the system. It’s like it was a family business. Drugs are a lot of the problem. Quite a few would get out and get back into the drug culture they came out of. Get high and kill someone or steal to support their habit. To be honest, I don’t know how to stop recidivism, other than force them to get better educated. Most of them see education as a waste of time. 🤷
 
all i know is that doctor ray has said “one on one couciling is much better than group conciling in prisons and studies have shown violance can decreac by 35% or more with this method”

Shalom
God bless
 
I was a full-time Catholic prison chaplain for a number of years.

The purpose of prison is fourfold:
  • punishment
  • rehabilitation
  • security for society
  • deterrence
We’re pretty good at punishing.

However:

Society has never really been serious about rehabilitation, and indeed much of the impetus for rehab needs to come from the inmate him/herself. And with declining budgets and longer sentencing there’s less priority given to rehab.

Security for society: 80% of crimes go unreported, so even if you put ALL the criminals away who get caught 4 times as many perpetrators are still on the loose. And the on;s you do catch will mostly end up on the streets someday, meaner, tougher and more criminally minded than before.

Since most crimes are committed by drug addicts, or in fits of rage and anger, or by sociopaths, prison doesn’t really act as a deterrent.

I think prison fails in 3 of the 4 areas.
 
triumphguy said:
I was a full-time Catholic prison chaplain for a number of years.

The purpose of prison is fourfold:
  • punishment
  • rehabilitation
  • security for society
  • deterrence
We’re pretty good at punishing.

{…}

Since most crimes are committed by drug addicts, or in fits of rage and anger, or by sociopaths, prison doesn’t really act as a deterrent.

I think prison fails in 3 of the 4 areas.
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That’s a pretty good summary of the issue. Drug addicts are something like half the inmates from what I understand.
 
Dale_M said:
20% of state prison inmates are there because of drug convictions.
albany.edu/sourcebook/pdf/t600012004.pdf
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A drug convection is different from being a drug addict.

Most petty thefts are due to drug addicts looking for money for a fix. However that won’t be recorded as a drug conviction.

Similarly most violent crime is committed while the perpetrator is drunk or high.

However the charge will be assault.
 
BTW: As a former probation officer, I can tell you this. The majority of sentenced and convicted offenders awaiting trial/sentencing are not in jail, but out in the community either serving their sentences on probation or on house arrest (which is a joke, btw), or are on pre-trial. It takes a lot of work to get an offender into jail. Where I live, if an offender is in a provincial jail, they’re there for a good reason. If citizens knew how many violent/sex offenders were serving their sentences in the community, they would probably never want to leave their house.

Jails are by no means perfect, but they do stop criminals from getting drunk and going out on a stabbing spree (but it takes a few stabbing sprees to get him in there).
 
Pete29 says it all. I currently work in corrections and can tell you that there are a LOT of inmates who want to be in prison. I have actually heard them SAY this. Think about it… on the street your poor, don’t have a place to live, and can’t get any medical care. IN prison you have a home, a gym, flat screen t.v., free medical care, and food. While it is true that there is a great deal of violence in prison most of these guys have lived a violent life from an early age and don’t mind having to fight, or even kill to get what they want or need. Prison is no place for rehabilitation mainly because the majority of the people there see no problem with what they are doing and therefore cannot be rehablitated.
Another thing, I work for a living. Inmates don’t. They get $8.50 per month just for being in prison. This is on top of their FREE food, FREE healthcare, FREE cable t.v., FREE gym, FREE laundry service, and a FREE roof over their heads. I think that part of the problem is that the inmates get to continue not taking responsibility for themselves once they are locked up. I don’t have all the answers but there definately needs to be a change. I believe that there is a way to help these people become productive citizens and just giving them everything they want and need because they committed a crime is not the way to do it.
 
newcatholic09 said:
Prison is no place for rehabilitation mainly because the majority of the people there see no problem with what they are doing and therefore cannot be rehablitated.

…]
I don’t have all the answers but there definately needs to be a change. I believe that there is a way to help these people become productive citizens and just giving them everything they want and need because they committed a crime is not the way to do it.
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They’re stuck in what’s called the “per-contemplative stage” meaning they don’t yet think they have a problem, thus they don’t need to change. Until they start moving out of this stage (if they do, that is) they won’t change. From a probation officer perspective it was very frustrating. Where I live, they know criminals want to go to jail, that’s why it takes so much work to get the ones who keep re-offending while on probation/house arrest actually in jail. What this results in is probation officers spending all their time doing up breaches and court reports on offenders stuck in this stage, and can’t focus their efforts on helping the ones who are ready to make a change. Where I live probation officers aren’t merely “supervising” offenders, but have to become social workers. We subscribe to the “Hug a Thug” correctional model. I will say, jail is helpful for those rehabilitating those with addictions and substance abuse who want to come clean, but can’t by themselves and can’t afford or don’t qualify for a detox centre,

I came to the conclusion that the only things that will help these people are prayers for their conversion and acts of reparation for their sins.
 
I’ll tell you the inmates that got me. They’re the one’s that say if their neighbor has 2 TVs and they don’t have one they should legally be allowed to go into their neighbors house and take one,. I’ve heard that more than once. How do you rehabilitate someone with that attitude? 🤷
 
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