Do pro-lifers have an obligation to care for pregnant women and the lives of those after they born?

[jmcrae]

So what is the resolution then? If any?

The practice of chastity, as taught by the Catholic Church. Sex being reserved for married couples who are open to life.

 

[gamewell45]

We are EVIL for accepting this, we are EVIL for allowing it to continue! The clinics could be shut down TOMORROW if more people would get up off their ASSES and get to the clinic to pray and entreat women not to abort! If we had Catholics standing up and talking about their own abortions and confessing in huge numbers, and asking their priests to talk about it from the pulpit. If we could get more donors for portable ultrasound vehicles to catch women going in to an abortion clinic to show them that a 9-week old baby has little tiny hands and feet.

Couple of problems with this line of thought. We must remember that not everyone believes as you or I may believe and the chances are that you’re not going to be able to convince them to see it the way you do. Secondly, purchasing ultra sound vehicles is a wonderful Idea, but how many women are going to step into them and let some stranger they don’t know attempt to do an ultra sound??? thirdly and finally, I think the churches and not just the Catholic Church, but all churches need to preach abstainence on a constant basis to all their parishoners and should likewise preach that sex, unless done by married couples specifically for concieving children should be avoided so you prevent unwanted pregnancies. That I think would be a good solution to issues before us.

 

[gamewell45]

The practice of chastity, as taught by the Catholic Church. Sex being reserved for married couples who are open to life.

I think thats an excellent solution to the issues before us.

 

[jmcrae]

I think thats an excellent solution to the issues before us.

And we find, yet again, that the Catholic Church’s constant teaching is really the only practical solution - it will never go out of date.

 

[faithfully]

Is California the only state that has WIC and welfare? And full services for illegal immigrants? Is this even an issue, not offering services for those that constantly make stupid choices? Is there a question on the form that asks what kind of life choice a person made that placed them in financial need? Did you marry a deadbeat? Did you NOT marry the deadbeat? Did you take a job that turned out not to be a good one? Did you get injured and can’t work? Did the injury come from a responsible decision? Or did you go skiing and hurt yourself, and now expect everyone to pay for you? OH… You got pregnant? Ok, was this a planned pregnancy or not? Well, see if it was planned, then we’re happy to help you. But if it was an accident that you otherwise would have aborted then not… We don’t live in this society do we??? The question is… DO YOU NEED HELP? And if you qualify based on income etc… here’s your check. I just don’t really see that we need a different financial assistance program per TYPE of issue.

We may need to reevaluate our assistance programs. But I don’t see how that needs to be tied to abortion.

I personally would rather my tax dollars help a young woman who made a mistake care for her child, and educate her child in hopes that her child doesn’t repeat the mistake… than say, I don’t know… give money to some heroin addict to spend on drugs while ignoring his/her children requiring the state to forcably take their children away needing more funds… And it seems if any of my tax dollars are funneling to abortion, and abortion is made illegal, then there is LOTS of money to now go toward programs that can assist if necessary… without any extra money taken in the form of tax.

So, for example : If it’s true that perhaps MORE than $1billion in taxes (over a 7 year period, I think) have been funding abortions… If those abortions were illegal, seems that MAYBE $1 billion could go straight to Assistance… Granted I’m sure the bills would be written that the money would somehow fund a corn field in some random state… But that’s a whole other issue.

 

[spunjalebi]

I know MN provides WIC and welfare, though I’m not sure about the assistance to illegal immigrants.

Here’s the thing-- I agree with Julianne that it should not be encouraged or praised to have a child outside of wedlock, but we need to be careful to not toe the line of calling children born outside of marriage “bastards” again. That language simply punishes the child for existing, instead of placing blame on the parents for causing their child to be in a situation where the parents aren’t married. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with expressing disappointment at the knowledge of finding out someone is pregnant out of wedlock, but this issue is always approached from a dichotomous perspective. Instead, we should take a balanced approach of always teaching that sexual activity outside of marriage is wrong, and if one gets pregnant outside of marriage there are consequences. Has anyone read the thread where a young woman asks parents if they would make her “be on her own” after getting pregnant out of wedlock? Everyone had gracious and compassionate responses. Even with these responses, the parents who answered made it known that if it was their daughter, they would not hesitate to let their child know what they did was unacceptable, but they have to deal with the reality that there is a child to be cared for. The focus should be on the action which caused the pregnancy-- sex outside of marriage-- and not on the child.

That said, I can see where faithfully is coming from in that she’d rather see her tax dollars help a young woman with a child versus the addict who ignores their children. It’s difficult really because we can’t always determine who is doing what outside the doors of the government center. Anyone remember Nadya Suleman? Do you want your tax dollars helping someone who deliberately used IVF technology to get pregnant out of wedlock, used student loans to get pregnant, and is on public assistance (food stamps, etc.) yet denies she is on any public assistance? How responsible is that?

I still don’t think that full dependence on the government should be encouraged, and I think if we put forth more of the attitude of “we know you made a mistake and need help, we’re here to help you” many women wouldn’t need to turn to the government for assistance. It would also encourage people to think critically about the choices they’ve made.

The pregnancy crisis center that my church helps actually throws baby showers for expectant mothers, gives them access to free ultrasounds, helps with reduced cost prenatal care, and even provides resources for parenting classes. This is all of the efforts of donations and volunteers. That’s how we build communities to help each other out. I fail to see how government tax dollars can replace this. What is so hard to understand that the government is not the end-all-be-all solution?

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Secondly, purchasing ultra sound vehicles is a wonderful Idea, but how many women are going to step into them and let some stranger they don’t know attempt to do an ultra sound???

You have a very distorted view of women - they will go into an abortion clinic and let the “strange” doctor rip their baby apart and suction it out of their body but they won’t allow someone to use an ultrasound to look at that baby from outside their body??? Do you even know what an ultrasound machine is? You pull up your shirt, they put some goop on your belly, and they slide a handheld sender around until they find the baby. Then they take some measurements and take pictures.

Man, you are out of touch with this whole issue. Go back to debating some other subject, because you are not going to really help women or the unborn babies. 3,000 babies were slaughtered today, you know, while you bring up ridiculous ideas like expectant mothers won’t allow a “stranger” to give them an ultrasound.

At least maybe you can pray for their souls.

 

[PetersKeys]

Personally, I never have been enamored with the pro-life position because I find it too short-sighted. I do not see how the pro-life position actually solves any problems after the babies are born. What if they would be born in poverty and the mother has no means for taking care of the child? Do pro-lifers have a more obligation to be concerned with the welfare of children after they are born (in addition to before they are born)?

this can be solved by teaching young women the tactics, preparation, and teaching the skills of homemaking and preparation for motherhood. So when a woman does get pregnant, she will already be in a stable marriage and she will know what to do when the baby comes.

Before a woman becomes an adult she must learn the skills of homemaking, childrearing, and mid-wifery. The mother especially must teach her daughter and help her learn the skills of homemaking, cooking, sewing, child-rearing, modesty, femininity, submission to her husband, cleaning, and nurturing. Also what must be taught is the importance of marriage and the finding of a suitable partner. Daughters must always be under the parents eye, and preferably be home-schooled. Potential husbands must always be approved by the father first also. It is the fathers decision and authority whether the guy is right for her, since many women are unable to correctly choose a good mate(we can see this especially today when we see the dating antics of young women, they always tend to choose a bad guy because they are not bright and have bad judgmental skills)

If parents brought up their daughters in this way there would be a drastic change in the quality of mothering and their ability. Daughters must learn from their mothers correct biblical roles. By the time they are 18 they will already be saturated in these skills and will know much better what to do when she eventually gets married and has kids. She will be prepared, which will make it much easier on her husband and the marriage.

 

[faithfully]

You have a very distorted view of women - they will go into an abortion clinic and let the “strange” doctor rip their baby apart and suction it out of their body but they won’t allow someone to use an ultrasound to look at that baby from outside their body??? Do you even know what an ultrasound machine is? You pull up your shirt, they put some goop on your belly, and they slide a handheld sender around until they find the baby. Then they take some measurements and take pictures.

Man, you are out of touch with this whole issue. Go back to debating some other subject, because you are not going to really help women or the unborn babies. 3,000 babies were slaughtered today, you know, while you bring up ridiculous ideas like expectant mothers won’t allow a “stranger” to give them an ultrasound.

At least maybe you can pray for their souls.

If Tom Cruise can do one…

 

[spunjalebi]

this can be solved by teaching young women the tactics, preparation, and teaching the skills of homemaking and preparation for motherhood. So when a woman does get pregnant, she will already be in a stable marriage and she will know what to do when the baby comes.

Before a woman becomes an adult she must learn the skills of homemaking, childrearing, and mid-wifery. The mother especially must teach her daughter and help her learn the skills of homemaking, cooking, sewing, child-rearing, cleaning, and nurturing. Also what must be taught is the importance of marriage and the finding of a suitable partner. Daughters must always be under the parents eye, and preferably be home-schooled. Potential husbands must always be approved by the father first also. It is the fathers decision and authority whether the guy is right for her, since many women are unable to correctly choose a good mate(we can see this especially today when we see the dating antics of young women, they always tend to choose a bad guy because they are not bright and have bad judgmental skills)

If parents brought up their daughters in this way there would be a drastic change in the quality of mothering and their ability. Daughters must learn from their mothers correct biblical roles. By the time they are 18 they will already be saturated in these skills and will know much better what to do when she eventually gets married and has kids. She will be prepared, which will make is much easier on her husband and the marriage.

You’re being sarcastic, right?

 

[faithfully]

this can be solved by teaching young women the tactics, preparation, and teaching the skills of homemaking and preparation for motherhood. So when a woman does get pregnant, she will already be in a stable marriage and she will know what to do when the baby comes.

Before a woman becomes an adult she must learn the skills of homemaking, childrearing, and mid-wifery. The mother especially must teach her daughter and help her learn the skills of homemaking, cooking, sewing, child-rearing, cleaning, and nurturing. Also what must be taught is the importance of marriage and the finding of a suitable partner. Daughters must always be under the parents eye, and preferably be home-schooled. Potential husbands must always be approved by the father first also.** It is the fathers decision and authority whether the guy is right for her, since many women are unable to correctly choose a good mate(we can see this especially today when we see the dating antics of young women, they always tend to choose a bad guy because they are not bright and have bad judgmental skills)**

There is SOOOOO much wrong with this statement. In my personal experience. Woman the “choose” bad guys, have one for a father. They choose what they know. Judgement is learned. If your parents don’t exercise good judgement, it will rub off.

Home schooling does not necessarily meet a child’s academic needs. LOVE my parents, but I was WAY beyond their science, English and Math by the 9th grade.

And I’m sorry… young women… are “not bright”???.. Only if they are hanging around the likes of a person that talks about them like this… Women that hear they are not bright, and not capable will become exactly that!

 

[PetersKeys]

You’re being sarcastic, right?

no, of course not…And neither is God…

Then they can** train **the younger women to love their husbands and children, - Titus 2:4

Women [To be] discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed. - Titus 2:5

Proverbs 7:11 (She is loud and defiant, her feet never stay at home); <~~~ha sounds like most American women, lol

Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words** by the behavior of their wives**, - 1 Peter 3:1

Ephesians 5:22 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.

1 Timothy 2:11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.

1 Timothy 2:12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.

1 Timothy 5:14 So I counsel younger widows to marry, to have children, to manage their homes and to give the enemy no opportunity for slander.

There is a reason why the divorce rate is almost 50% in the US and most families are dysfunctional. Children are not taught the correct roles and skills when it comes to mothering, fathering, and marriage

 

[spunjalebi]

I like how the antics of young men were failed to be addressed, considering the current modern attitudes of “scoring,” “cherry-picking,” and making sure they cajole a virgin girlfriend into bed. All while knowing that they can always walk away from the situation if they got a girl pregnant.

I am seriously hoping your words were tongue-in-cheek, and even if they were, many of those statements were just wrong. :dts:

 

[spunjalebi]

All of those things apply to women who are married-- not ALL women.

By the way…my husband wasn’t “approved” by my father. I guess that makes me heretical, hmm?

 

[PetersKeys]

All of those things apply to women who are married-- not ALL women.

By the way…my husband wasn’t “approved” by my father. I guess that makes me heretical, hmm?

young women need correct guidance by their parents. Especially on a right husband. Why do you think half of all marriages end in divorce in the US? It is because there are no roles taught anymore about man and woman and how they should act in marriage. This is why you have so many lazy husbands and defiant rebellious loud wives…They were never taught by their parents good christian morals and how to raise a family. Which was the reason for my post. So parents will start to teach their children preparation and skills regarding marriage and children. A book on christian mid-wifery and homemaking is a great start

 

[spunjalebi]

Why don’t you just start another thread about this topic about how you believe women are only constrained to the roles of housewife and mother, or you can actually provide something of substance to this topic?

 

[PetersKeys]

Why don’t you just start another thread about this topic about how you believe women are only constrained to the roles of housewife and mother, or you can actually provide something of substance to this topic?

because it relates to the OP. The OP asks why pro-lifers don’t help enough(allthough this can be argued) once children are born. I posted a response, on teaching women to be prepared about children, so they don’t have to be helped in the first place…

A woman with extraordinary skills in homemaking and children will always find a way to take care of her children. Its called maternal instinct. Thus, the parents should encourage this maternal feminine instinct with teaching their daughters about homemaking, cooking, childrearing, nurturing, modesty, temperance(since many modern women tend to spend too much $$ on shallow things), and mid-wifery, and most important, the choosing of the correct husband with the help of her parents.

If women were more prepared there would be much more children growing up in good homes.

We live in a society that degrades motherhood. The feminist movement destroyed the roles between man and woman. They also destroyed the concept of motherhood and chivalry. So when these young women have babies they have no concept of motherhood and how to take care of their children. So, that is what my post was about, to bring back the christian concept of motherhood and marriage which will teach young women responsibility towards their children and bring out their natural feminine maternal instinct, which has been repressed by decades of feminist ideal and rhetoric. The reason why these young mothers are unable to take care of their children is because of the SECULAR liberal ideal of parenting and motherhood.

 

[spunjalebi]

Your answer conveniently places all the blame on women when there are men out there who contribute to the pregnancy of women.

You can post and post, but no amount of stating that women should only be housewives and mothers is going to change the fact that women get pregnant out of wedlock. Ever looked at stats for states that are more conservative? It’s interesting to note that while they claim to be part of “the Bible belt” their rates of divorce are still high, along with the rates of teenage pregnancy. So obviously, there is a lot more going on than insisting one must give a daughter a “good book on homemaking.”

And furthermore, there is also evidence to state that women who are able to obtain a college education are in a better situation to care for them selves along with children. There’s also nothing-- I repeat, NOTHING-- in Catholic teaching which states that the only roles women ought to have are wife and mother.

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_let_29061995_women_en.html

If you’re going to go off about women “not knowing their place,” in relation to this issue, I’d like to see what you have to say about men. Are men going to be instructed on how to respect ALL women, and how to make wise decisions about choosing a wife? Are men going to be expected to learn how to be husband and fathers in the way that Catholic teaching expects?

 

[PetersKeys]

Your answer conveniently places all the blame on women when there are men out there who contribute to the pregnancy of women.

You can post and post, but no amount of stating that women should only be housewives and mothers is going to change the fact that women get pregnant out of wedlock. Ever looked at stats for states that are more conservative? It’s interesting to note that while they claim to be part of “the Bible belt” their rates of divorce are still high, along with the rates of teenage pregnancy. So obviously, there is a lot more going on than insisting one must give a daughter a “good book on homemaking.”

I’m not blaming women. I’m blaming how post-modernist society and feminism has degraded the roles of motherhood…It is the concept that is hurting everyone.

Also I assume your taking that statistics from “religious tolerance”'s site? It is used allot by proponents against Christianity, but then again there are other sites that show differently, for instance, there is another site that showed the highest rates were in Nevada, California, and New York. Also many people claim to be christian by name only or what they grew up in. Remember only 19% of Catholic actually believe contraception is wrong.

I think we should look at the rates before 1950. When motherhood and homemaking were still an important issue in a womans life and were embedded in growing up. Divorce and children out of wedlock were MUCH lower than they are today. Before 1920 the divorce rate was below 10% and children born out of wedlock was 0.2%

 

[spunjalebi]

Religioustolerance doesn’t even have updated data:

csmonitor.com/Commentary/Opinion/2010/0312/High-divorce-rates-and-teen-pregnancy-are-worse-in-conservative-states-than-liberal-states

Nonetheless, you cannot assume that teaching women domesticated skills and placing sole value on being a housewife will end out-of-wedlock pregnancy. People have a very romanticized view of the 1950’s, but if you were to really do the research you will see that people still had sex outside of marriage, still had children out of marriage, and many of those couples who married in the 50’s ended up divorced in the 60’s and 70’s-- and the 1970’s had the highest divorce rates.

What prevents and reduces out of wedlock pregnancies is teaching MEN and WOMEN that sex outside of marriage is wrong, and not acceptable, and to not place one’s self in a situation which would lead to temptation. If a situation did occur where a woman got pregnant, instead of relying completely on the government for assistance, the man in question should own up and help her, and they should seek the assistance of charities and organizations which provide help for unexpected pregnancies.