Do pro-lifers have an obligation to care for pregnant women and the lives of those after they born?

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Personally, I never have been enamored with the pro-life position because I find it too short-sighted. I do not see how the pro-life position actually solves any problems after the babies are born. What if they would be born in poverty and the mother has no means for taking care of the child? Do pro-lifers have a more obligation to be concerned with the welfare of children after they are born (in addition to before they are born)?
 
Personally, I never have been enamored with the pro-life position because I find it too short-sighted. I do not see how the pro-life position actually solves any problems after the babies are born. What if they would be born in poverty and the mother has no means for taking care of the child? Do pro-lifers have a more obligation to be concerned with the welfare of children after they are born (in addition to before they are born)?
Most pro-life organizations provide medical care, housing, education, and job-training for expectant mothers and new mothers. And yes, we have a moral obligation to take care of our sisters when they are in trouble - driving them to an abortion clinic and “getting rid of 'the problem” aka killing a human child is not a “solution” to anyone’s problems.
 
Personally, I never have been enamored with the pro-life position because I find it too short-sighted. I do not see how the pro-life position actually solves any problems after the babies are born. What if they would be born in poverty and the mother has no means for taking care of the child? Do pro-lifers have a more obligation to be concerned with the welfare of children after they are born (in addition to before they are born)?
There is no greater or lesser obligation then is owed toward any other person.

To be frank I find the sense of your post difficult to catch. In what way is being pro life short sighted? it would make just as much (non)sense to suggest that saving life in Africa was short sighted since frankly the problem of African underdevelopment is not thereby solved. Assuming you are not a troll I truly cannot see and moral value in your point at all.
 
In the Western World there can be no discussion of poverty as an excuse; all developed countries will either provide help for parents; or will be able to look after them in care. Further; many charities and other resources are available to help both the parents and the children.

Even if the mother cannot look after the Child herself; she should not kill it to because she is unwilling or unable to work; she should allow that Child a chance to live; as she has been allowed a chance to live.

Growing up in poverty is better than not growing up at all; particularily in countries with free education and scholarships; the hardships of growing up in poorer surroundings are not damning on the individual.

Likewise; in underdeveloped countries; there are still charities and organisations that help children; although to a lesser extent than in the West – but still who are we to judge that someones life will not be worth living; so even in the most poor area; in the most impoverished conditions – human beings can find meaning and happiness.

Human life has intrinsic value - that value has nothing to do with their poverty; their disabilities; etc. The poverty of the children has nothing to do with it – the life is what is important. The majority of men and women in religious orders live in poverty; but their lives are fulfilled, happy, productive and meaningful.

Job 1:21Naked came I out of my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away: as it hath pleased the Lord so is it done: blessed be the name of the Lord.
 
Personally, I never have been enamored with the pro-life position because I find it too short-sighted. I do not see how the pro-life position actually solves any problems after the babies are born. What if they would be born in poverty and the mother has no means for taking care of the child? Do pro-lifers have a more obligation to be concerned with the welfare of children after they are born (in addition to before they are born)?
Doesn’t everybody…?

Your argument/concern is odd.
Maybe we can use an analogy. So if I supported killing people who lived on the streets saying this will solve homelessness (as well as a bunch of other social problems) and you disagreed with me saying we can’t kill homeless people, because they are still people. Can I come back with an argument that your position is untenable because you don’t solve all the homelessness in the county/state/country?

Of course this is absurd. The argument does not logically follow, because they are based on different premises. The premise to the prolife argument is that we can’t kill the babies because they are human/people. While the premise of the other argument is that we can cure poverty (and a bunch of other social ills) by -]killing/-] aborting babies. Thus coming back with an argument that says prolifers must solve all the social ills of babies born into poverty or a single parent, is a non argument.

Not to mention the prolife movement works very hard to giving baby clothes, diapers, food, medical care, help/counseling, housing, work experience, and parenting classes to those women who need it. birthright.org/,franciscansoflife.org/AboutUs.htmlsistersoflife.org/visitation-mission-pregnancy-help
 
Black Rose, is this question more or less the same as yours…?

“Did the abolitionists have the obligation to house, care for, and give jobs to all the slaves they freed? Could they say they were anti-slavery if they didn’t/couldn’t provide for the slaves’ needs after they were freed? If they couldn’t provide for them, did they even have a right to fight against slavery?”

Like jilly4ski said, everybody has that duty… prolifers included, but not necessarily more obligated, imo. Reacting to, (giving help to) people in need is demanded because of justice, and the natural law. Failing to do so would qualify as a sin of omission, I think. This is true for everybody.
 
Personally, I never have been enamored with the pro-life position because I find it too short-sighted.
You have it backward, my friend. Haven’t you heard: “But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.” (Matt. 6:33) Has not God blessed America greatly? But we have grown fat, and abandoned the Rock our Savior (Deut. 32:15). Only when we first obey His commandments will God give any blessings to our country again. It is therefore shortsighted, not to mention intrinsically evil, to think that murdering millions of innocent children of God will solve any problems. It will not. Do the will of God first, and His will is this:

“I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants, by loving the LORD your God, by obeying His voice, and by holding fast to Him” (Deuteronomy 30:19-20)

God bless.
 
I can see where the OP is coming from. It does sometimes seem that pre-born —*you’re golden. Pre-school age…someone else’s problem. At the same time, I don’t see Catholics (or any other anti-abortion groups) stampeding to childrens’ services to adopt and I certainly don’t see people waiting in line for a mixed race crack-addicted, preemie. There are still 400,000 kids in foster care. If your six weeks in utero people want to protest for you 24/7. If your six years and been in three foster homes you’re a secondary consideration…if that.
 
I can see where the OP is coming from. It does sometimes seem that pre-born —*you’re golden. Pre-school age…someone else’s problem. At the same time, I don’t see Catholics (or any other anti-abortion groups) stampeding to childrens’ services to adopt and I certainly don’t see people waiting in line for a mixed race crack-addicted, preemie. There are still 400,000 kids in foster care. If your six weeks in utero people want to protest for you 24/7. If your six years and been in three foster homes you’re a secondary consideration…if that.
I think you are right, but also many active pro-life people are also involved in programs relating to caring for infants and mothers in difficult circumstances.

I recall seeing statistics suggesting that eliminating poverty can reduce abortion rates - I’m afraid I don’t remember the context. But I think that it is far more likely to reduce abortion by making it possible for people in difficult circumstances to raise their child than putting them in a position where adoption seems to be the only option. I’m not knocking adoption, but in many ways it is not a great choice for many people.

And I think the fact that so many people wait for babies while there are many kids in foster care is a travesty.
 
I can see where the OP is coming from. It does sometimes seem that pre-born —*you’re golden. Pre-school age…someone else’s problem. At the same time, I don’t see Catholics (or any other anti-abortion groups) stampeding to childrens’ services to adopt and I certainly don’t see people waiting in line for a mixed race crack-addicted, preemie. There are still 400,000 kids in foster care. If your six weeks in utero people want to protest for you 24/7. If your six years and been in three foster homes you’re a secondary consideration…if that.
Many pro-life folks do take in foster children, others help pregnant women, etc.

The 400,000 children in foster care are not a stable population. On any given day, there will be about that number (if it is accurate), but over the course of the year the actual children involved will change.

Some of the children are in for a long time, this is due to the policies of social services, which wants to reunite children rather than terminate perental rights. And some children do have parents who are not completely estranged from them.

OTOH, it is true that some kids are simply not adopted. Adopting an older child who has possibly suffered abuse, etc., is not an easy thing to do, nor should it be done willy-nilly. Not every person who believes that killing children before they are born have the resources, time, money, knowledge, support system, etc., to be able to take on a child who needs a very special environment in order to have a chance at thriving. I think that simply allowing everyone who shows up wanting to adopt a hard-to-place child would come in for some serious criticism, don’t you?
 
Black Rose, is this question more or less the same as yours…?

“Did the abolitionists have the obligation to house, care for, and give jobs to all the slaves they freed? Could they say they were anti-slavery if they didn’t/couldn’t provide for the slaves’ needs after they were freed? If they couldn’t provide for them, did they even have a right to fight against slavery?”

Like jilly4ski said, everybody has that duty… prolifers included, but not necessarily more obligated, imo. Reacting to, (giving help to) people in need is demanded because of justice, and the natural law. Failing to do so would qualify as a sin of omission, I think. This is true for everybody.
So you do think the abolitionist movement was movement about implementing a moralistic agenda on the South by trying to dissolve the immoral institution of slavery. I doubt history would provide much credence to that thesis, and it is more likely that there were other motivations for opposing the expansion of slavery such as protecting free white labor who immigrate to American territories or new states in the west competition from slave labor.
Importantly, the Republicans were the party of free working white men; they were opposed to the spread of slavery because they did not want to compete against unpaid labor in the lands opening in the west. They were not supporters of racial equality, let alone desegregation, slave or free. Further, the Republicans were purely a sectional party; they did not attempt to run candidates in the slavery states. Their plan was to gain complete political control in the north; if they did, they would have sufficient electoral strength to elect a president. The debates between Stephen A Douglas and Abraham Lincoln held during the 1858 campaign for a US Senate seat from Illinois were illustrative of this twisted politics.
Douglas, a Democrat, was the incumbent senator, having been elected in 1847. He had chaired the Senate Committee on Territories, and his achievements are described above. Lincoln (1806-65) was a relative unknown at the beginning of the debates. In contrast to Douglas’s popular-sovereignty stance, Lincoln stated that the US could not survive as a nation of half slave and half free states. The Lincoln-Douglas debates drew the attention of the entire nation. Although Lincoln lost the Senate race in 1858, he beat Douglas in the 1860 race for the US presidency. The Republican Party henceforth refers to itself as the party of Lincoln.
Lincoln gained attention early in his political career as a pragmatic segregationist cloaked under the high-minded rhetoric of democratic ideals. He finally overcame his previous political rationalization and made peace with his personal morals by issuing the Emancipation Proclamation in 1862. Lincoln, the man who opposed the exclusion of slavery in the new territories with his perversely righteous and dubiously motivated declaration, “A house divided against itself cannot stand,” and who declared himself to be personally opposed to racial equality, ended up abolishing slavery for the whole nation four years later as a political expediency brought about by a poorly conducted, ongoing civil war, notwithstanding his earlier belief that while “Negroes” should enjoy the right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness promised to all men by the Declaration of Independence, the extinction of slavery could only be a gradual and lengthy process, with no near-term target date.
atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/FL17Dj01.html
It would take anti-abolitionist Abraham Lincoln (in office 1861-1865), who gained attention early in his political career as a pragmatic segregationist cloaked under the high-minded rhetoric of democratic ideals, to finally overcome his previous political rationalization and to make peace with his personal morals to issue the Emancipation Proclamation in 1862.
Lincoln came into national prominence in the Lincoln-Douglas debates during the 1858 Senate campaign by shrewdly trapping his opponent, Stephen A Douglas (1813-1861), into introducing the anti-slavery Freeport doctrine, permitting the new territories to exclude slavery in the name of popular sovereignty. The compromise proposed by Douglas, in spite of the Dred Scott decision by the Taney Supreme Court a year earlier in 1857 ruling that slavery could not constitutionally be excluded from any territory, cost Douglas much popular support, particularly among pro-slavery Southern Democrats, even after his insistence on his personal indifference to the immorality of slavery.
atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/JC12Dj06.html

Here is a relevant book review about it:nytimes.com/2005/05/28/books/28kaku.html?_r=1

I will grant that some abolitionists were indeed sincere such as the Quakers and the Beecher family, but Lincoln has some unsavory aspects about his character that are often downplayed in popular history. It reminds me of the The Simpsons episode “Lisa the Iconoclast” when Lisa discovers the ignoble aspects of Springfield’s founder Jebediah Springfield. But I am just PC thug for pointing that out about Lincoln. 🙂
 
Many pro-life folks do take in foster children, others help pregnant women, etc.

The 400,000 children in foster care are not a stable population. On any given day, there will be about that number (if it is accurate), but over the course of the year the actual children involved will change.

Some of the children are in for a long time, this is due to the policies of social services, which wants to reunite children rather than terminate perental rights. And some children do have parents who are not completely estranged from them.

OTOH, it is true that some kids are simply not adopted. Adopting an older child who has possibly suffered abuse, etc., is not an easy thing to do, nor should it be done willy-nilly. Not every person who believes that killing children before they are born have the resources, time, money, knowledge, support system, etc., to be able to take on a child who needs a very special environment in order to have a chance at thriving. I think that simply allowing everyone who shows up wanting to adopt a hard-to-place child would come in for some serious criticism, don’t you?
Didn’t notice til it was too late to edit that this should be: Not every person who believes that killing children before they are born *is wrong *have the resources, time, money, knowledge, support system, etc., to be able to take on a child …
 
Personally, I never have been enamored with the pro-life position because I find it too short-sighted. I do not see how the pro-life position actually solves any problems after the babies are born. What if they would be born in poverty and the mother has no means for taking care of the child? Do pro-lifers have a more obligation to be concerned with the welfare of children after they are born (in addition to before they are born)?
Christians have an obligation to care for all of our fellow people. Period. We are instructed to help those in need…No caveats.

But the abortion issue is even more simple.

And it boils down to this: Don’t murder. Abortion is an unjustifiable taking of a human life - that’s murder. The consequences of life never outweigh the consequences of an act of inherent evil.

Pax,
OA
 
I can see where the OP is coming from. It does sometimes seem that pre-born —*you’re golden. Pre-school age…someone else’s problem. At the same time, I don’t see Catholics (or any other anti-abortion groups) stampeding to childrens’ services to adopt and I certainly don’t see people waiting in line for a mixed race crack-addicted, preemie. There are still 400,000 kids in foster care. If your six weeks in utero people want to protest for you 24/7. If your six years and been in three foster homes you’re a secondary consideration…if that.
One should note that all kids in foster care aren’t up for adoption.

Truly, is there a major religion (even lumping all Protestants together) that is more associated with adoption than Roman Catholicism?

Nonetheless, your comments neglect that abortion is an inherent evil. If not, why not abort children with likely serious medical conditions, or those likely to be born into poverty, or to abusive parents, or even the dumb ones.

Why not cull out newborns or toddlers than don’t meet an established standard? Are we truly going to look to the Constitution to tell us that we can’t cull out those that present a burden to society?

Pax,
OA
 
We all have an obligation to care for “all” of mankind, all life in humanity is humanities responsiblity to care for. Once one decides one or the other should or should not be taken care of, that individual falls into the grave error of playing god, and a cruel version of god for that matter.

Define poverty, as you stated it as well. Is there a roof over the head, food in the belly, and some kind of a means to remain healthy? Or is the criteria being, must have this or that fancy house, car, amenities? The natives in the jungles of south America do just fine without the modern conveniences, in fact, they flourish and are quite happy, even though would be considered quite impoverished by western cultures. Personally, I’ll take God and family way over any material thing anyone could throw at me.
 
I can see where the OP is coming from. It does sometimes seem that pre-born —*you’re golden. Pre-school age…someone else’s problem. At the same time, I don’t see Catholics (or any other anti-abortion groups) stampeding to childrens’ services to adopt and I certainly don’t see people waiting in line for a mixed race crack-addicted, preemie. There are still 400,000 kids in foster care. If your six weeks in utero people want to protest for you 24/7. If your six years and been in three foster homes you’re a secondary consideration…if that.
Have you adopted that six year old? People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
 
In the Western World there can be no discussion of poverty as an excuse; all developed countries will either provide help for parents; or will be able to look after them in care. Further; many charities and other resources are available to help both the parents and the children.

Even if the mother cannot look after the Child herself; she should not kill it to because she is unwilling or unable to work; she should allow that Child a chance to live; as she has been allowed a chance to live.

Growing up in poverty is better than not growing up at all; particularily in countries with free education and scholarships; the hardships of growing up in poorer surroundings are not damning on the individual.

Likewise; in underdeveloped countries; there are still charities and organisations that help children; although to a lesser extent than in the West – but still who are we to judge that someones life will not be worth living; so even in the most poor area; in the most impoverished conditions – human beings can find meaning and happiness.
I do not find charity to be very munificent, also it is humiliating to receive charity and it stigmatizes them further. (I would never want to find myself receiving food from a food bank and I am sure other share this same sentiment.) Regarding scholarships, you must remember that scholarships are not very plentiful, and the available ones are based on merit. What if they do not have the intellect to get a scholarship? But I might be wrong and there are plenty of scholarships and public funding in England.

It is not like that being born entitles them to having a good life. Maybe a countries with an extensive welfare state they may have such a life, but it is probably that they will be mired in the despair of poverty later in life.
 
I do not find charity to be very munificent, also it is humiliating to receive charity and it stigmatizes them further. (I would never want to find myself receiving food from a food bank and I am sure other share this same sentiment.) Regarding scholarships, you must remember that scholarships are not very plentiful, and the available ones are based on merit. What if they do not have the intellect to get a scholarship? But I might be wrong and there are plenty of scholarships and public funding in England.

It is not like that being born entitles them to having a good life. Maybe a countries with an extensive welfare state they may have such a life, but it is probably that they will be mired in the despair of poverty later in life.
So I don’t think I understand. Are you saying that abortion is, therefore, justifiable in circumstances where the child or mother might be poor or lacking in opportunity?

It seems that abortion is either always morally acceptable, because it isn’t ending a life. Or always immoral because it an innocent life is snuffed out.

So which is it?

Pax,
OA
 
So I don’t think I understand. Are you saying that abortion is, therefore, justifiable in circumstances where the child or mother might be poor or lacking in opportunity?

Pax,
OA
One point is that the moral culpability of women who choose abortion is diminished when the child does not have excellent prospects for living a good life.

But what I wanted to point out was that pro-life advocates generally have a lack of concern for the people who are born. In other words, they do not focus enough on the quality of life of people after they are born. This is definitely not universally true as it does not apply to all pro-life people, but it seems to be a somewhat accurate stereotype. It seems that embracing the moral notion of the sanctity of life is detached from a concern of the welfare of children and grown adults. This does not mean the the two concepts necessarily preclude each other, but it seems that there is a negative correlation between the two; conservative Catholics tend to emphasize the sanctity of life while discounting concern for others welfare, while liberal Catholics tend to emphasize the welfare of the poor while putting less attention on life issues.

In addition, this is rather obvious; even with “opportunity”, that opportunity does not guarantee anything. For example, I certainly have an “opportunity” to be a millionaire by picking the correct numbers in a lottery and I could increase my chances by purchasing more tickets.
 
Personally, I never have been enamored with the pro-life position because I find it too short-sighted. I do not see how the pro-life position actually solves any problems after the babies are born. What if they would be born in poverty and the mother has no means for taking care of the child? Do pro-lifers have a more obligation to be concerned with the welfare of children after they are born (in addition to before they are born)?
IMHO, this is written like an article out of the Summa Theologica. Advancing a ridiculous proposition for the purpose of debunking it. For example:
It seems that liberality is not a virtue. For no virtue is contrary to a natural inclination. Now it is a natural inclination for one to provide for oneself more than for others: and yet it pertains to the liberal man to do the contrary, since, according to the Philosopher (Ethic. iv, 1), “it is the mark of a liberal man not to look to himself, so that he leaves for himself the lesser things.” Therefore liberality is not a virtue.
Summa 2-2-117-1​
So, in that spirit, let me provide the “on the contrary” response.

The first principle to be considered is that sexual relations outside of the context of marriage is considered objectively sinful. The second principle (or set of principles) to be observed is that the Catholic response to a social issue should be in context of the basic principles of Catholic Social Doctrine: the dignity of the human person, the common good, subsidiarity, participation, and solidarity. The following should be considered in the above context.

It is clearly the woman’s husband’s responsibility to provide for his wife and child. It is the responsibility of the husband’s employer to pay him an adequate amount to facilitate providing for his family in at least a modest but adequate fashion. Any other answer presupposes a forcible rape (or other circumstance where she finds herself pregnant without a husband through no fault of her own) or the violation of both the natural and revealed law, fornicating outside of the context of a marriage.

If her husband, through no fault of his own, is unable to provide for his wife and child, then society, with full respect for the principle of subsidiarity, should, in solidarity with him and his family, provide what assistance is necessary until such point in time as the husband is capable of carrying out his responsibilities.

In the case of rape or other circumstance where she finds herself pregnant and without a husband due to no fault of her own, it would be society’s responsibility to stand in solidarity with her and her child, by assuring that the woman had the ability to acquire the means to care for herself and her child, with full respect to subsidiarity.

Finally, in the case of a pregnancy happening as the consequence of an immoral act (consensual sex outside of the context of marriage), the interest of the innocent party (the child) must be primary in the mind. Once again, with full respect to subsidiarity, the child’s health and well being must be taken care of by society, as a corporal act of mercy, and as an act of solidarity with the child who is simply unable to care for him/herself until reaching adulthood. The woman, as the mother of the child, must also be treated with mercy, so that she is able to carry out her responsibilities as the parent of the child.

You will note that I have highlighted the concept of subsidiarity in all the cases above. By this I mean that the most immediate societal unit possible has the obligation to provide the support. This would mean, in order, the individual, the immediate family, the extended family, the neighborhood, the parish, the community, the surrounding communities, and so on. The only role for the State would be if all of the intermediate communities are so overloaded as to be unable to provide the necessary support (note I said unable…not unwilling).
 
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