Do Protestants believe that the Temple will get rebuilt?

[JonNC]

Did Martin Luther, their Christian leader, not say anything about the rapture?

Our first Christian leader is Christ.
The Lutheran confessions speak very little of eschatology, primarily because it wasn’t a particular issue of dispute at the time of the Reformation. The Lutheran reformers and Lutherans were and are amillennialist.

Jon

 

[504Katrin]

I would suggest this book:

amazon.com/The-Eternal-City-Catholic-Christianity/dp/0988442507/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_z

Book Description:

Read this book if you have ever wondered why the Catholic Church specifically claims to be Roman? It would seem that the Church of Jesus Christ would be centered in Jerusalem, the capital of the Jews, since Christ died and rose again in Jerusalem. Catholic theologian Taylor Marshall, Ph.D. provides a layman’s account of how Christ chose the Rome as an instrument of redemption for the nations. Beginning with the Old Testament prophets, Dr. Marshall explains how the Messiah would come and assume reign over the nations through the Roman Empire. This book provides an exciting and popular account establishing Rome as ‘the Eternal City’ of Christ the King.

Ugh. No, but thanks a lot. If that book was 10 pages, maybe 20 would also be permissable, but 234 pages is simply out of the discussion. My pile of Jewish books doesn’t seem to get smaller, quite the contrary, and as long as this is the case I just cannot afford to put so much time into something that doesn’t really affect my life. Maybe when I’m retired, and have nothing to do sitting on my veranda sipping home made lemonade on a hot and humid summer day, I might remember your book recommendation that I really appreciate. Until then though, a good overview must do. I don’t want to sound ungrateful, I am not. Hopefully you can understand that

 

[Erich]

I am sorry but it will not be from Rome. Rome by then will have been destroyed.

The Catholic, and historic view held by all Christians right up until a wacky Irish minister came up with the entire drawn out dispensationalist view was much truncated and simpler: Jesus returns, the end of the age is reached, and judgment day happens and a new Heaven and new Earth are brought into bring with the old passing away. Dispensationalism is an idea around 150 years old.

When the King (Jesus) returns, there will no longer be a need for his Prime Minister (the pope) to be holding the Keys.

 

[Doxiemom]

Thank you for your kind contribution.
So all Christians wait for Jesus’ return, but only some dispensationalistic Protestants believe that he will rule sitting on the throne of David in the 3rd Temple? Will the third Temple, according to your belief, be destroyed also?

Almost everyone I know who is not catholic believe that Jesus rules from David’s Throne. From the temple.

According to the Written Word, at the end of the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ, Satan will be loosed for a short while. He and his angels and some people living in those days will actually join him to war once more against Jesus( after 1000 years of perfection, yet some evil lives on in man). In this final war, Satan is defeated.
Now we enter into a different age (the world never ends, just the age). In its appointed time, the whole world is purged by fire, so the building called the temple will be also purged. The world is made new and it is once again Eden, heaven on earth. The city called Heaven, comes down as the New Jerusalem. The temples were designed by God after the pattern set up in Heaven. All evil is gone. God is with us.

As a Christian, I cannot begin to tell you the love and importance Jerusalem has for me. Or the Jewish people. The remnant plays a vital role in what the future has to hold. You are the brethren of Jesus. You are the apple of God’s Eye. The Holy City of Jerusalem is where he placed His Holy Name- there are satalite photo’s of hills near Jerusalem in which the valleys spell out in perfection the Judiac letters of His Name.

 

[Blacksword]

When the King (Jesus) returns, there will no longer be a need for his Prime Minister (the pope) to be holding the Keys.

You are correct that Christ will rule eternally as Lord of all, yes. What of it? I’m not getting what your point is in saying this?

 

[Blacksword]

Almost everyone I know who is not catholic believe that Jesus rules from David’s Throne. From the temple.

According to the Written Word, at the end of the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ, Satan will be loosed for a short while. He and his angels and some people living in those days will actually join him to war once more against Jesus( after 1000 years of perfection, yet some evil lives on in man). In this final war, Satan is defeated.
Now we enter into a different age (the world never ends, just the age). In its appointed time, the whole world is purged by fire, so the building called the temple will be also purged. The world is made new and it is once again Eden, heaven on earth. The city called Heaven, comes down as the New Jerusalem. The temples were designed by God after the pattern set up in Heaven. All evil is gone. God is with us.

As a Christian, I cannot begin to tell you the love and importance Jerusalem has for me. Or the Jewish people. The remnant plays a vital role in what the future has to hold. You are the brethren of Jesus. You are the apple of God’s Eye. The Holy City of Jerusalem is where he placed His Holy Name- there are satalite photo’s of hills near Jerusalem in which the valleys spell out in perfection the Judiac letters of His Name.

This is a pretty good summary of dispensationalist eschatology, though I’d respectfully disagree that the Scriptures spell this out. Were this clearly set forth in the Scriptures, we’d all be dispensationalists!

 

[Erich]

You are correct that Christ will rule eternally as Lord of all, yes. What of it? I’m not getting what your point is in saying this?

It was in response to Doxiemom’s earlier post, in which she said “So, when Jesus comes on that White Horse with His armies behind Him, He shall touch down on Mount of Olives and face right towards the Eastern Gate, which has never been destroyed. He shall march straight through that gate , it having been opened by the earthquake created by His feet touching earth. He shall go and sit upon David’s Throne in Jerusalem in the temple. And He shall rule with a Rod of Iron for 1000 years. …** I am sorry but it will not be from Rome.**”

I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that she must think Catholics think Jesus will sit and rule from Rome.

Since you stated what the Catholic and (up until 150 years ago) historic Christian view was, I simply quoted it (and, in my mind, paraphrased Matthew 26:65 “He has spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses?” to “Jesus the King has returned; what further need have we of his Vicar on Earth?”)

 

[Blacksword]

It was in response to Doxiemom’s earlier post, in which she said “So, when Jesus comes on that White Horse with His armies behind Him, He shall touch down on Mount of Olives and face right towards the Eastern Gate, which has never been destroyed. He shall march straight through that gate , it having been opened by the earthquake created by His feet touching earth. He shall go and sit upon David’s Throne in Jerusalem in the temple. And He shall rule with a Rod of Iron for 1000 years. …** I am sorry but it will not be from Rome.**”

I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that she must think Catholics think Jesus will sit and rule from Rome.

Since you stated what the Catholic and (up until 150 years ago) historic Christian view was, I simply quoted it (and, in my mind, paraphrased Matthew 26:65 “He has spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses?” to “Jesus the King has returned; what further need have we of his Vicar on Earth?”)

Ah, I see, thanks for the clarification.

 

[AbideWithMe]

Most evangelicals, or at least most young evangelicals, these days just kind of roll their eyes whenever this stuff comes up. The common phrase you hear is that we are all now “Panmillennialists” in that “Whatever happens, it’ll all pan out in the end.” We’d much rather focus on the more immediate concerns of preaching and teaching the gospel and we’re perfectly happy to let God worry about the details of when He’s coming back to establish His Kingdom, thank you very much.

Yup…I’m not young, but I’m an Evangelical I-don’t-knowist.

 

[Doxiemom]

It was in response to Doxiemom’s earlier post, in which she said “So, when Jesus comes on that White Horse with His armies behind Him, He shall touch down on Mount of Olives and face right towards the Eastern Gate, which has never been destroyed. He shall march straight through that gate , it having been opened by the earthquake created by His feet touching earth. He shall go and sit upon David’s Throne in Jerusalem in the temple. And He shall rule with a Rod of Iron for 1000 years. …** I am sorry but it will not be from Rome.**”

I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that she must think Catholics think Jesus will sit and rule from Rome.

Since you stated what the Catholic and (up until 150 years ago) historic Christian view was, I simply quoted it (and, in my mind, paraphrased Matthew 26:65 “He has spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses?” to “Jesus the King has returned; what further need have we of his Vicar on Earth?”)

I said that because in the past I have had catholics insist that Jesus will rule from Rome with the Pope next to Him. And that Rome is not destroyed.

I assume this is what they are taught. Catholics feel free to correct me if it is wrong in what was said by the other catholics. -but Rome does get destroyed /

 

[Blacksword]

I said that because in the past I have had catholics insist that Jesus will rule from Rome with the Pope next to Him. And that Rome is not destroyed.

I assume this is what they are taught. Catholics feel free to correct me if it is wrong in what was said by the other catholics. -but Rome does get destroyed /

There is nothing in catholic teaching to suggest such a silly idea. And also, btw, there is nothing in Scripture that states Rome the city will be destroyed. That is a particular and, in my opinion, highly strained interpretation of Scripture held by a tiny minority of christians pulled from Revelations mainly, which is itself a highly figurative book and allows for almost infinite personal interpretations. Stating “Rome will be destroyed” with such confidence based on such a diffuse and allegorical form of apocalyptic writing is much like the repeated occurrences of preachers who claim to have figured it all out and know the exact time of the second coming only to be found wrong and standing on a hill dressed in white beds sheets over and over again, and just as likely as they were to be wrong.

 

[504Katrin]

Thanks to everyone for your contributions. This topic is much clearer to me now.
At the very least it has become very clear to me that this topic is more complex than I thought it would be lol

 

[Doxiemom]

There is nothing in catholic teaching to suggest such a silly idea. And also, btw, there is nothing in Scripture that states Rome the city will be destroyed. That is a particular and, in my opinion, highly strained interpretation of Scripture held by a tiny minority of christians pulled from Revelations mainly, which is itself a highly figurative book and allows for almost infinite personal interpretations. Stating “Rome will be destroyed” with such confidence based on such a diffuse and allegorical form of apocalyptic writing is much like the repeated occurrences of preachers who claim to have figured it all out and know the exact time of the second coming only to be found wrong and standing on a hill dressed in white beds sheets over and over again, and just as likely as they were to be wrong.

The City of Seven Hills has been traditionally known as Rome.

I do not accept Revelation as allegorical. Yes, John tries to take what he was shown and put it into terms his mind could understand, but yet the events will happen and those involved will be real. That is my firm belief.

As for preachers who think they know exactly when Jesus returns, there are dumb as a doornail. HOWEVER, there are instructions , given by Jesus and the older prophets, to look for as signs of Coming. We may not know the day or hour, but we will be able to tell when the birth pains are increasing and getting closer.

The white bed sheets thingy was cute.

Please inform your fellow catholics that some of them are wrong . then, about the Pope sitting next to Jesus in the Vatican.

Actually, I have nothing against that idea. But, that City of Seven Hills is going to be destroyed one day. A lot of bad things are going to happen to a whole lot of the world.

And, yes, I know Jerusalem has 7 hills, but it was not known as that through history. And it is clear that Jerusalem is where the eastern gate is and Jesus is triumph when He walks through it. Can’t be destroyed.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ as told to John remains one of the biggest contentions between Roman catholics and (some) non-catholics.

I treated this subject with respect and have no desire to try to convince you otherwise. Just having a good back and forth on the subject.

 

[kmcarl56]

As a non-Catholic Christian, I do not like all the labeling (this “ist” or that "ist) and interpretations (Protestants, Lutherans, Methodists, etc.) by one person or denomination of the Holy Bible. Instead, I believe that anyone who believes in the Living God as the only God, Jesus Christ as His Son, and that He is the only Savior of the world, is saved by His mercy and grace. I choose to believe that the Bible is both literal and allegorical. In the allegorical sense, the words and ideas written are meant to tell us in the best possible way to describe to us as humans what will come when Jesus returns.

I do know that hundreds of thousands of Jews all over the world are now accepting Jesus Christ as the Messiah as prophecied in the Old Testament. Hallelujah, praise the Lord! As far as the Temple being rebuilt, it is a fact that this is being done today. As far as Israel being the place where Jesus will return and reign for 1000 years, all I can say is that it is written in the Holy Scriptures, and that we, as Christians, should not question what God has planned.

As a Christian, I am simply doing my best to spread the Good News to everyone I encounter, whether in person or online…that Jesus is Lord of all, King of all nations and peoples, and the Holy Forgiver of our sins.

I am not worrying about what God has planned or when or where Jesus returns (which I believe to be the Temple in Jeruselem) because I just know that I am His child in heart, soul, and mind, and that Heaven will be mine for eternity. Thanks be to God that He sent His only Son to save the world, Jews and Gentiles, by giving his life on the cross and being risen to be seated at the right hand of God…until he returns, of course.

Please, please be comforted by the Truth, and do not worry about such issues, for God’s Will will be done regardless.

May God bless and keep you in all you do and say every day of your life.

 

[Blacksword]

The City of Seven Hills has been traditionally known as Rome.

I do not accept Revelation as allegorical. Yes, John tries to take what he was shown and put it into terms his mind could understand, but yet the events will happen and those involved will be real. That is my firm belief.

As for preachers who think they know exactly when Jesus returns, there are dumb as a doornail. HOWEVER, there are instructions , given by Jesus and the older prophets, to look for as signs of Coming. We may not know the day or hour, but we will be able to tell when the birth pains are increasing and getting closer.

The white bed sheets thingy was cute.

Please inform your fellow catholics that some of them are wrong . then, about the Pope sitting next to Jesus in the Vatican.

Actually, I have nothing against that idea. But, that City of Seven Hills is going to be destroyed one day. A lot of bad things are going to happen to a whole lot of the world.

And, yes, I know Jerusalem has 7 hills, but it was not known as that through history. And it is clear that Jerusalem is where the eastern gate is and Jesus is triumph when He walks through it. Can’t be destroyed.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ as told to John remains one of the biggest contentions between Roman catholics and (some) non-catholics.

I treated this subject with respect and have no desire to try to convince you otherwise. Just having a good back and forth on the subject.

Yes, but nowhere is it therefore spelled out in Revelations that the seven heads mean Rome…it says the seven heads are seven hills, and also mean seven kings. There is no reason to think that means a city therefore at all, and certainly not Rome! What “obvious” connection do the seven kings that the passage actually refers to have with Rome? At least you should admit this is an interpretation and could well be wrong, it could mean a million things…

I must ask though: are you sure you know what “allegory” means? I’ve never heard of anyone who thinks it is actual literal accounts being set forth, of course it’s allegory. Otherwise, do you think a giant monster is going to rise from the ocean that people will worship? Clearly there’s imagery and allegory throughout.

 

[Blacksword]

As a non-Catholic Christian, I do not like all the labeling (this “ist” or that "ist) and interpretations (Protestants, Lutherans, Methodists, etc.) by one person or denomination of the Holy Bible. Instead, I believe that anyone who believes in the Living God as the only God, Jesus Christ as His Son, and that He is the only Savior of the world, is saved by His mercy and grace. I choose to believe that the Bible is both literal and allegorical. In the allegorical sense, the words and ideas written are meant to tell us in the best possible way to describe to us as humans what will come when Jesus returns.

I do know that hundreds of thousands of Jews all over the world are now accepting Jesus Christ as the Messiah as prophecied in the Old Testament. Hallelujah, praise the Lord! As far as the Temple being rebuilt, it is a fact that this is being done today. As far as Israel being the place where Jesus will return and reign for 1000 years, all I can say is that it is written in the Holy Scriptures, and that we, as Christians, should not question what God has planned.

As a Christian, I am simply doing my best to spread the Good News to everyone I encounter, whether in person or online…that Jesus is Lord of all, King of all nations and peoples, and the Holy Forgiver of our sins.

I am not worrying about what God has planned or when or where Jesus returns (which I believe to be the Temple in Jeruselem) because I just know that I am His child in heart, soul, and mind, and that Heaven will be mine for eternity. Thanks be to God that He sent His only Son to save the world, Jews and Gentiles, by giving his life on the cross and being risen to be seated at the right hand of God…until he returns, of course.

Please, please be comforted by the Truth, and do not worry about such issues, for God’s Will will be done regardless.

May God bless and keep you in all you do and say every day of your life.

Well, it was the various Protestant sects that called themselves by these names…

Just curious too: is the Temple being rebuilt? I believe the Dome of the Rock still stands as usual currently, yes?

 

[Blacksword]

The City of Seven Hills has been traditionally known as Rome.

I do not accept Revelation as allegorical. Yes, John tries to take what he was shown and put it into terms his mind could understand, but yet the events will happen and those involved will be real. That is my firm belief.

As for preachers who think they know exactly when Jesus returns, there are dumb as a doornail. HOWEVER, there are instructions , given by Jesus and the older prophets, to look for as signs of Coming. We may not know the day or hour, but we will be able to tell when the birth pains are increasing and getting closer.

The white bed sheets thingy was cute.

Please inform your fellow catholics that some of them are wrong . then, about the Pope sitting next to Jesus in the Vatican.

Actually, I have nothing against that idea. But, that City of Seven Hills is going to be destroyed one day. A lot of bad things are going to happen to a whole lot of the world.

And, yes, I know Jerusalem has 7 hills, but it was not known as that through history. And it is clear that Jerusalem is where the eastern gate is and Jesus is triumph when He walks through it. Can’t be destroyed.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ as told to John remains one of the biggest contentions between Roman catholics and (some) non-catholics.

I treated this subject with respect and have no desire to try to convince you otherwise. Just having a good back and forth on the subject.

I felt I should clarify a little further as I was trying to get the kids to bed and didn’t spell things out very clearly. The passage does not talk of the Church, and the references to Rome if that is taken as the interpretation are about the Roman Empire itself and its Emperors. The passage does not provide any real indication that this means one day in the future the city of Rome will be destroyed.

 

[Doxiemom]

Why is so important to you that Rome is not destroyed? If indeed it does get destroyed?

Is it because it hurts you as it is the seat of the Vatican, if the Vatican even exists when this event would have taken place? It could happen in a few years or 5000 years. Anything could happen to that beautiful place. I have been there. I felt Christ there. And it hurts me to think it will all be gone.

Obviously, we will never convince the other. That is fine with me because it does not affect our Love and our Devotion to our Lord Jesus Christ.

If I am a heretic in your eyes, really, it is not important to me. That is not meant as a mean statement, just a fact. Just as I think you are wrong, it makes neither of us sinners in this matter.

We both are looking forward to the Second Coming of our Lord Jesus and that He shall do. When that happens, all our meager attempts to understand will mean nothing. From that moment on we shall not fear.

As for Scripture, I am no expert. But this I know, there are so many layers in each word, phrase, story. There are past, present, future meanings. The study of the original aromatic, or Hebrew, or greek gives even deeper meaning. And study of the local customs. The learned men I try to learn from explain these things. for me.

 

[Blacksword]

Why is so important to you that Rome is not destroyed? If indeed it does get destroyed?

Is it because it hurts you as it is the seat of the Vatican, if the Vatican even exists when this event would have taken place? It could happen in a few years or 5000 years. Anything could happen to that beautiful place. I have been there. I felt Christ there. And it hurts me to think it will all be gone.

Obviously, we will never convince the other. That is fine with me because it does not affect our Love and our Devotion to our Lord Jesus Christ.

If I am a heretic in your eyes, really, it is not important to me. That is not meant as a mean statement, just a fact. Just as I think you are wrong, it makes neither of us sinners in this matter.

We both are looking forward to the Second Coming of our Lord Jesus and that He shall do. When that happens, all our meager attempts to understand will mean nothing. From that moment on we shall not fear.

As for Scripture, I am no expert. But this I know, there are so many layers in each word, phrase, story. There are past, present, future meanings. The study of the original aromatic, or Hebrew, or greek gives even deeper meaning. And study of the local customs. The learned men I try to learn from explain these things. for me.

It’s not that the city of Rome could be destroyed that bothers me, the Church would go on to the return of Christ. My point is it would be wise to not extrapolate so much firm beliefs from so scant, and so esoteric, actual scripture. I was where you are though: I was raised baptist and believed firmly in dispensationalism for 33 years. Then I started reading the early church fathers, took a hard look at church history and the scarier passages in the NT for Protestants, and to Rome I went.

Just curious, have you considered that the Church’s wisdom over its 2,000 years exceeds that of any given minister? something to pray on. God bless though, and best wishes to you.

 

[openmind77]

I said that because in the past I have had catholics insist that Jesus will rule from Rome with the Pope next to Him. And that Rome is not destroyed.

I assume this is what they are taught. Catholics feel free to correct me if it is wrong in what was said by the other catholics. -but Rome does get destroyed /

All this is fascinating ! When you say Rome will be destroyed, does that mean the end of the Catholic Church as we know it? Or are you saying the Vatican and the Popes will move to Jerusalem?