Do Protestants believe that the Temple will get rebuilt?

[Doxiemom]

It was promised that the gates of hell shall not prevail against His church.

What happens to the Pope and the Vatican?? Since I am a pre-tribulation, my prayer is that all the faithful are not around, having been snatched up prior to the tribulation. If that is not how it is carried out, pray for them so that escape Anti-Christ.

Your faith lives in your heart, not inside a building. Should the enemy destroy every Christian building in the world, christianty will still be alive in us.

By reason, it would seem, when Jesus returns and rules from Jerusalem ( be 1000years or whatever you say), a pope isn’t necessary anymore because the pope is “vicar” of Christ" and now Christ is here.

Having said that, there is indications of some goverance. What shape this is, I do not have a clue. But He rules with a Rod of Iron, thus I suspect, we shall be like police officers for lack of a better term.

 

[openmind77]

It was promised that the gates of hell shall not prevail against His church.

What happens to the Pope and the Vatican?? Since I am a pre-tribulation, my prayer is that all the faithful are not around, having been snatched up prior to the tribulation. If that is not how it is carried out, pray for them so that escape Anti-Christ.

Your faith lives in your heart, not inside a building. Should the enemy destroy every Christian building in the world, christianty will still be alive in us.

By reason, it would seem, when Jesus returns and rules from Jerusalem ( be 1000years or whatever you say), a pope isn’t necessary anymore because the pope is “vicar” of Christ" and now Christ is here.

Having said that, there is indications of some goverance. What shape this is, I do not have a clue. But He rules with a Rod of Iron, thus I suspect, we shall be like police officers for lack of a better term.

Well, good luck with the Rapture thing.

But I had a question about the Temple: In the New Testament, Jesus predicts the Temple will be destroyed, but where does he say that it needs to be rebuilt before he can Return?

Also, what is the deal about resuming animal sacrifices of all things?

 

[504Katrin]

But I had a question about the Temple: In the New Testament, Jesus predicts the Temple will be destroyed, but where does he say that it needs to be rebuilt before he can Return?

I guess that’s because when he talked about destroying the temple within three days he also said that he could rebuild it within three days - in the very same sentence. So people have to assume that when he speaks about the temple getting destroyed that he also proclaims that it will be rebuilt.

 

[Blacksword]

I guess that’s because when he talked about destroying the temple within three days he also said that he could rebuild it within three days - in the very same sentence. So people have to assume that when he speaks about the temple getting destroyed that he also proclaims that it will be rebuilt.

Not really, as Catholics do not believe this at all. They get it from Revelations where it talks about the “abomination of the desolation” being placed in the temple, and the beast forcing people to worship it. They believe it must apply to a future event and thus the temple must be rebuilt. Catholics understand this as already fulfilled during the Roman Empire and not necessarily as a future prophecy.

 

[BeProfOSX]

I guess that’s because when he talked about destroying the temple within three days he also said that he could rebuild it within three days - in the very same sentence. So people have to assume that when he speaks about the temple getting destroyed that he also proclaims that it will be rebuilt.

Everyone I know sees this as a reference to His resurrection.

Indeed, the Apostle John specifically says that’s what He was talking about in John 2:

So the Jews said to him, “What sign do you show us for doing these things?” Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” The Jews then said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?” But he was speaking about the temple of his body. When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this, and they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken. (John 2:18-22, ESV)

As far as the Abomination of Desolation, most scholars see two of them actually:

The one Daniel talked about refers to Antiochus Epiphanes desecrating the Second Temple in the 2nd Century BC.

The one Our Lord talks about in the Synoptics refers, by way of analogy, to the sacking of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Second Temple in AD 70, at least for Preterists. Those with a Futurist interpretation of Revelation tend to tie it into that book as something that Anti-Christ will do in the Third Temple.

 

[openmind77]

I guess that’s because when he talked about destroying the temple within three days he also said that he could rebuild it within three days - in the very same sentence. So people have to assume that when he speaks about the temple getting destroyed that he also proclaims that it will be rebuilt.

John 2:19 - 2:21 clearly says he is not talking about rebuilding the actual temple.

Neither does Mark 13 or Matthew 24 mention rebuilding of the temple.

Is there some other reference?

 

[dronald]

In the fourth post of this thread I quoted where the belief generally comes from but it’s been overlooked. I’ll type out the actual words to make sure you read it and can interpret it for me.

II thes 2:3Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness 4who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

Again, that’s where the belief comes from.

 

[openmind77]

In the fourth post of this thread I quoted where the belief generally comes from but it’s been overlooked. I’ll type out the actual words to make sure you read it and can interpret it for me.

II thes 2:3Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness 4who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

Again, that’s where the belief comes from.

OK, thanks. Although I am not sure Paul means the Temple on the Mount in this reference.

 

[BeProfOSX]

After looking over this thread, I think that some basic definitions for the theological terms at play here may be helpful…

First, we need to define “Eschatology.” Eschatology is the branch of Theology that deals with the “last things.” This includes the answers to a lot more questions than just those surrounding Christ’s Second Coming but those questions are the ones we’re dealing with here.

Second, we need to recognize the broad Eschatological camps amongst Christians. They are:

1 - Premillennialism: The idea that Christ’s return precedes the establishment of His Kingdom.
2 - Amillennialism: The idea that Christ’s return coincides with the establishment of His Kingdom.
3 - Postmillennialism: The idea that Christ’s return comes after the establishment of His Kingdom.

As you can imagine, each of those have radically different ideas of just what is meant by “His Kingdom.” These difference arise out of differences of interpretation several New and Old Testament passages and one entire New Testament book in particular, but more on that later.

Dispensationalism is not, properly understood, just another kind of Eschatology. It is, in fact, a fully realized Theology unto itself with sometimes radically different answers to a great many theological questions beyond those of Eschatology. If anyone wants to, we can deal with them in a different topic, but suffice it to say here that Dispensational Premillennialism is probably what you are most familiar with when it comes to Evangelical Eschatology. That having been said, Dispensational Premillennialism is by no means the only, or even the main, Protestant or even Evangelical Eschatology out there.

Finally, we need to understand the different interpretive frameworks at play when talking about the last book of the New Testament. It should be borne in mind that these camps can’t even agree on what that book is named. Most people call it either Revelations or the Apocalypse. I will call it Rev/Apoc as a kind of neutral shorthand.

There are four broad camps of interpretation, they are:

1 - Preterist: The things written about in Rev/Apoc have mostly already happened.
2 - Futurist: The things written about in Rev/Apoc have mostly not happened yet.
3 - Historicist: The things written about in Rev/Apoc began to happen shortly after it was written and continue to happen through today into the future. The idea is that Rev/Apoc is the entire history of the church in coded or hidden form.
4 - Idealist: The things written about in Rev/Apoc are metaphors that don’t refer to specific, historical events.

Breaking down these things according to the standard denominational lines:

Catholics and Orthodox tend to be Amillennial and, if they have a specific interpretational framework for Rev/Apoc, it tends to be either Preterist or Idealist.

Protestants in general fall into almost all the theological and interpretive camps. Amillennialism/Preterism was the order of the day amongst mainliners, back when the mainliners still… well… believed in things.

The Reformers were almost all Amillennialists, as far as we can tell, but interestingly enough tended to be Historicists when it came to Rev/Apoc. Historicism is the source of the most vehement Anti-Catholicism of the Reformation era. It is the source of the notion that the Pope is the Anti-Christ, etc. Historicism, however, died out almost entirely by the end of the 19th Century. There are still a few, but they tend to be whack-a-doodles.

Postmillennialism was almost entirely a Presbyterian phenomenon of the 19th Century. A few do still persist, but they tend to be Christian Reconstructionists.

Evangelicalism, especially where that Evangelicalism is expressed in entirely new denominations rather than as a part or off-shoot of some other pre-existing Protestant tradition, is almost entirely Premillennial and Futurist. Dispenstationalism (at least in terms of eschatology) was also nearly universal but it’s taken a big hit amongst American Evangelicals in the last 10-15 years. The Idealist view is starting to become more popular in the UK, especially amongst Evangelical Anglicans.

Baptists and Anabaptists have always been Premillennialists, as far as I can tell.

I think that should just about cover it.

 

[Doxiemom]

Well, good luck with the Rapture thing.

But I had a question about the Temple: In the New Testament, Jesus predicts the Temple will be destroyed, but where does he say that it needs to be rebuilt before he can Return?

Also, what is the deal about resuming animal sacrifices of all things?

As for the animals: there are devout Jews who want to return to the faith as prescribed by God in the Old testament.Lambs, red heifers, goats, others, were for specific reasons and were necessary and ordered by God. For instance, the shed blood of a lamb was necessary for the remission of sins. ( We Christians call Jesus The Lamb of God because He was the final sacrifice and perfect).

It is not a cruel death and is done in very precise manners. There are animals being prepared today. The red heifer, , will be necessary in the anointing of the Temple when it is built.

As Scripture says, this man we call Antichrist makes a covenant with these devout Jews for 7 years.The sacrifices begin a according to a precise calander set down by God. Anti-Christ breaks this covenant 3 & 1/2 years into it .

 

[504Katrin]

Everyone I know sees this as a reference to His resurrection.

Indeed, the Apostle John specifically says that’s what He was talking about in John 2:

As far as the Abomination of Desolation, most scholars see two of them actually:

The one Daniel talked about refers to Antiochus Epiphanes desecrating the Second Temple in the 2nd Century BC.

The one Our Lord talks about in the Synoptics refers, by way of analogy, to the sacking of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Second Temple in AD 70, at least for Preterists. Those with a Futurist interpretation of Revelation tend to tie it into that book as something that Anti-Christ will do in the Third Temple.

what John 2 says isn’t correct. It took 20 years to rebuild the temple and this is only if you add the years that they had to pause rebuilding as the Samaritians were around. They began preparations for the second temple in 370 bce which means they didn’t even build stone on stone back then but collected money to be able to build it in the first place, set up a contemporary altar, brought back vessels from the first temple and so on. It must have been an extraordinarily exciting time . Then the Samartians came two years later and they couldn’t continue witht their work. In 352 bce Darius allowed the construction of the temple to begin. It didn’t take long of course and (in 353) Ezra and Nehemia returned from exile, took action, and started to rebuild the temple which took 5 years. It was completed on the 3rd of Adar 3412 which is 349 bce. It is said that those who recalled the first temple cried when they saw the second one. But I think it was an incredible accomplishment and especially under these difficult circumstances.

 

[504Katrin]

John 2:19 - 2:21 clearly says he is not talking about rebuilding the actual temple.

Neither does Mark 13 or Matthew 24 mention rebuilding of the temple.

Is there some other reference?

yes, that’s what John said.
edit: no, I don’t know of no other references. Maybe others know more

 

[504Katrin]

In the fourth post of this thread I quoted where the belief generally comes from but it’s been overlooked. I’ll type out the actual words to make sure you read it and can interpret it for me.

II thes 2:3Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness 4who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

Again, that’s where the belief comes from.

okay. Thanks!

 

[pablope]

In the fourth post of this thread I quoted where the belief generally comes from but it’s been overlooked. I’ll type out the actual words to make sure you read it and can interpret it for me.

II thes 2:3Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness 4who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

Again, that’s where the belief comes from.

Okay…seat of the temple of God…does this mean the Jerusalem Temple?

Or it could also be the Church at Rome?

 

[openmind77]

Okay…seat of the temple of God…does this mean the Jerusalem Temple?

Or it could also be the Church at Rome?

Exactly. I think he was talking about the Christian Church. At this point, I don’t think he would even be thinking about the Jerusalem Temple.

 

[Erich]

What happens to the Pope and the Vatican?? Since I am a pre-tribulation, my prayer is that all the faithful are not around, having been snatched up prior to the tribulation. If that is not how it is carried out, pray for them so that escape Anti-Christ.

Hmm, the parable of the weeds among the wheat (Matthew 13:24-30) would seem to say that the first to be gathered are the ones to be burned.

24 He proposed another parable to them. “The kingdom of heaven may be likened to a man who sowed good seed in his field.
25 While everyone was asleep his enemy came and sowed weeds all through the wheat, and then went off.
26 When the crop grew and bore fruit, the weeds appeared as well.
27 The slaves of the householder came to him and said, ‘Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? Where have the weeds come from?’
28 He answered, ‘An enemy has done this.’ His slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’
29 He replied, ‘No, if you pull up the weeds you might uproot the wheat along with them.
30 Let them grow together until harvest;%between% then at harvest time I will say to the harvesters, “First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles for burning; but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”

 

[pablope]

It was promised that the gates of hell shall not prevail against His church.

What happens to the Pope and the Vatican?? Since I am a pre-tribulation, my prayer is that all the faithful are not around, having been snatched up prior to the tribulation. If that is not how it is carried out, pray for them so that escape Anti-Christ.

.

The Pope and the Vatican will be there to fulfill their duty…to tend the sheep and face the persecution of the anti-Christ…or whatever trials that come their way…just like the first 3 centuries…during the time of the Roman persecution.

and for after all…it is the rock from which the Church is founded on.

The Pope and the Vatican will not run away.

 

[openmind77]

The Pope and the Vatican will be there to fulfill their duty…to tend the sheep and face the persecution of the anti-Christ…or whatever trials that come their way…just like the first 3 centuries…during the time of the Roman persecution.

and for after all…it is the rock from which the Church is founded on.

The Pope and the Vatican will not run away.

He is not saying that the Pope and the Vatican will run away.

He is saying that Rome will be destroyed. I would be interested in knowing where in the Bible they get that from.

 

[dronald]

Okay…seat of the temple of God…does this mean the Jerusalem Temple?

Or it could also be the Church at Rome?

Exactly. I think he was talking about the Christian Church. At this point, I don’t think he would even be thinking about the Jerusalem Temple.

Daniel 11:31 “His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation. 32 With flattery he will corrupt those who have violated the covenant, but the people who know their God will firmly resist him.

Contrast with the Abomination of Desolation that Jesus speaks of. Is it a common belief that all this is going on in Rome and not in Jerusalem? I always assumed the temples daily sacrifice would be done in Jerusalem and not in Rome, as there will be no daily sacrifice in Rome.

Look at Christ’s words:

Matthew 24:15-16“So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

I just don’t see Rome in this… Especially with the mention of Judea.

 

[openmind77]

Daniel 11:31 “His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation. 32 With flattery he will corrupt those who have violated the covenant, but the people who know their God will firmly resist him.

Contrast with the Abomination of Desolation that Jesus speaks of. Is it a common belief that all this is going on in Rome and not in Jerusalem? I always assumed the temples daily sacrifice would be done in Jerusalem and not in Rome, as there will be no daily sacrifice in Rome.

Look at Christ’s words:

Matthew 24:15-16“So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

I just don’t see Rome in this… Especially with the mention of Judea.

Daniel 11 and Matthew 24 definitely refer to the Jerusalem Temple - although they don’t mention rebuilding it.

It is 2 Thessalonians in which I am doubtful that Paul is talking about the same temple - he probably means the seat of the Church.

And where does it say that Rome will be destroyed?