Do Protestants have anything similiar to the CCC?

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My BIL (my husband’s brother) is Lutheran…was raised Catholic, as were the rest of my husband’s family, growing up. Most of his family are either now: atheists, Lutheran, Buddhist, or non practicing Catholics. Not sure how this happened, but a thread for another time.

That being said…is there a moral code, similiar to the CCC, that Lutherans follow? Is my BIL considered a fallen away Catholic, or a practicing Lutheran?

Finally, do Protestants have any moral codes, with respect to:

*fertility drugs
*embryonic stem cell research
*natural family planning
*sexual conduct and acts within a marriage

Just curious as to if Protestants and Catholics both follow Christ–why would we be seen as committing mortal sins if we violate certain doctrine, and the Protestants are not held to the same standards?

My BIL recently became an ‘elder’ of the Church…does anyone know what that entails?

Hope I’m making sense…your thoughts are appreciated.🙂
 
I know the Episcopal church has a catechism. However, it’s not nearly as detailed when it comes to moral rules as the CCC is, though it does state what the beliefs of the Episcopal church are.

I think for the most part, Protestant churches leave specifics of morality up to individual people. I highly doubt any would be nearly as specific as the CCC when it comes to what married people do while alone together, and personally I think that’s a good thing. Perspectives on birth control and fertility drugs vary widely among Protestants. My parents, when they were still Christians, were against birth control, but not all Protestants are.

Also, I know that sincere Protestant Christians follow Christ to the best of their knowledge and ability, just as sincere Catholic Christians do.

An elder is a leader in the church. I’m not Lutheran so I don’t know the specifics, though.

I’ll probably add more later!
 
HannahLisa said:
I know the Episcopal church has a catechism. However, it’s not nearly as detailed when it comes to moral rules as the CCC is, though it does state what the beliefs of the Episcopal church are.

I think for the most part, Protestant churches leave specifics of morality up to individual people. I highly doubt any would be nearly as specific as the CCC when it comes to what married people do while alone together, and personally I think that’s a good thing. Perspectives on birth control and fertility drugs vary widely among Protestants. My parents, when they were still Christians, were against birth control, but not all Protestants are.

Also, I know that sincere Protestant Christians follow Christ to the best of their knowledge and ability, just as sincere Catholic Christians do.

An elder is a leader in the church. I’m not Lutheran so I don’t know the specifics, though.

I’ll probably add more later!
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Thank you for your reply…could you clarify your second paragraph…you state that you think it’s a good thing, what our CCC or that Protestants don’t have something as specific?
 
There are various famous Protestant catechisms. The Heidelberg and Westminster Catechisms come to mind.
 
whatevergirl said:
Thank you for your reply…could you clarify your second paragraph…you state that you think it’s a good thing, what our CCC or that Protestants don’t have something as specific?
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Before I clarify, let me say that I’m actually a Protestant…

I think the CCC is good inasmuch as it makes it very clear what the doctrines of the Church are. While not every person who claims to be Catholic will be living out the faith, the actual beliefs of the Church itself are there if you should wish to read them. The Protestants definitely lack in this regard, especially now, and especially non-denominational churches.

However, I think that some of the specifics on how people should live their lives contained in the CCC approach legalism. What the CCC actually says is all right, but it is easy to take it too far.
 
HannahLisa said:
Before I clarify, let me say that I’m actually a Protestant…

I think the CCC is good inasmuch as it makes it very clear what the doctrines of the Church are. While not every person who claims to be Catholic will be living out the faith, the actual beliefs of the Church itself are there if you should wish to read them. The Protestants definitely lack in this regard, especially now, and especially non-denominational churches.

However, I think that some of the specifics on how people should live their lives contained in the CCC approach legalism. What the CCC actually says is all right, but it is easy to take it too far.
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Being a cradle Catholic, yet still learning all that my faith has to offer me, can be challenging. It is surprising to me that growing up Catholic, (but not attending Catholic school) that there is much I do not know, or have just learned in my 30’s, about the RCC. I am of the belief that the CCC is divinely inspired, but I ponder over some of the sexual issues contained within its pages, as it relates to married couples. I also was speaking with a coworker today, who has become a dear friend over these months, and she explained that she used fertility drugs, and gave birth about 6 months ago to twins. She is Catholic and said …‘if I’m going to Hell for this, how can that be? God brought life into this world through me, the fertility drugs could have been usurped by God, if He truly did not want me to get pregnant.’ I agree to a point. I explained to her the Church’s basic principles and the way that such issues can become slippery slopes. But, again–an otherwise devout Catholic, going to Hell over taking fertility drugs, and bringing life into this world?

Fertility drugs weren’t even on the medical scene until 20 years ago, maybe? I try to have a blind faith, but some of these issues…just seem harsh to condemn a person for wanting to bring life into the world. In the same light, if a person has cancer, and goes through chemo–is that interrupting God’s will perhaps for that person to die? I often ponder how the Church makes such distinctions…do eveything to save a life, but not everything to bring life into the world–both premises based on modern technological advances. No embryos were killed during her implantation. Perhaps, we could say she was lucky…but, she looks at it as she is blessed. She said ‘I can’t look at my boys and think that this was not God’s providence.’ It is hard to see that it isn’t, I agree…yet she is in mortal sin because she took fertility drugs?

I dunno.🤷
 
I personally wouldn’t use fertility drugs. I would adopt instead. That’s one of those things that I don’t really have an opinion on for everyone. I can see the Catholic Church saying that those aren’t okay, though. I do have a problem with the Church getting into married people’s beds and saying what kinds of intimacy they can and can’t have. To me that’s just too much like legalism.
 
HannahLisa said:
I personally wouldn’t use fertility drugs. I would adopt instead. That’s one of those things that I don’t really have an opinion on for everyone. I can see the Catholic Church saying that those aren’t okay, though. I do have a problem with the Church getting into married people’s beds and saying what kinds of intimacy they can and can’t have. To me that’s just too much like legalism.
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You use the term legalism…that is the term my husband (who is also a cradle Catholic) uses from time to time. I can understand the reasons behind the Catholic Church’s concern for our well being, both in and out of the bedroom with our spouses, but confused as to why if one does not have intercourse, for whatever the reason, it would be considered ‘evil’ and mortally sinful. That seems too harsh to me…In reading the CCC’s stance on this, it also goes on to say that if one is engaging in foreplay, one should not look to sexual intercourse as the next step, and that is why you are doing that. Understood, but are we to suppose that God created such a pleasurable act to not think of the pleasure in it, in sharing this moment with one’s spouse? I try my best, but it can be challenging.
 
As far as I know, foreplay is designed to lead to intercourse…Which is why people who are not married are sometimes/often encouraged not to engage in too much kissing, even, because kissing leads to other things. This is a view I’ve seen with conservative Protestants.

As for whether a mortal sin is a mortal sin for those not under the CCC…I believe the criteria for mortal sin involves knowing it’s a sin and choosing to do it anyway, does it not? Since Protestants don’t know that whatever they are doing is a sin, they are not fulfilling the criteria and so it’s not a mortal sin. Though, that definition seems to be open to sin becoming subjective.
 
HannahLisa said:
As far as I know, foreplay is designed to lead to intercourse…Which is why people who are not married are sometimes/often encouraged not to engage in too much kissing, even, because kissing leads to other things. This is a view I’ve seen with conservative Protestants.

As for whether a mortal sin is a mortal sin for those not under the CCC…I believe the criteria for mortal sin involves knowing it’s a sin and choosing to do it anyway, does it not? Since Protestants don’t know that whatever they are doing is a sin, they are not fulfilling the criteria and so it’s not a mortal sin. Though, that definition seems to be open to sin becoming subjective.
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Yes…close. For a sin to be mortal, there needs to be three criteria basically, which is by the gace of God, that He is so patient with us…when you think about it.
  1. its subject must be a grave (or serious) matter;
  2. it must be committed with full knowledge, both of the sin and of the gravity of the offense;
  3. it must be committed with deliberate and complete consent.
And the Church has a number of sins that could fall into this category, but again–the mortal sin would encompass those three aspects–in totality.
 
According to those criteria, I don’t think a person who was not aware of the gravity of what they were doing could be committing a mortal sin. The lack of knowledge keeps it from being mortal, though they are still sinning.

Do you know how the Church came up with these criteria? I know they are contained in the CCC, but that’s about it, and I’m curious about the original source.
 
The two categories of sin (venial vs mortal) can be found in Sacred Scripture. In the Old Covenant there were sins that merited the death penalty and sins that could be expiated by an offering. This Law was a teacher that prepared the way for the faith (Gal. 3:24). In the New Covenant these material categories are replaced by spiritual ones, natural death by eternal death. There are thus daily faults for which we must daily ask forgiveness (Mt. 6:12), for even the “just man falls seven times a day” (Prov. 24:16), and mortal faults that separate the sinner from God (1 Cor. 6:9-10) for all eternity.

What is interesting to note about mortal sin, is that the Greek Orthodox Church doesn’t ‘dub’ it that…rather, they do acknowledge that there are sins that would separate a person from being permitted to receive Communion. St Paul talks about how one should be clean and pure of heart, before coming to the Lord’s table. Hope that helps a bit?
 
Yes, it does. Thank you! I don’t know if Protestants are held to the same standards…Sin is sin, but what constitutes a sin? Some Protestants would say using fertility drugs is not a sin. There isn’t really a consensus.

Back to part of the original topic…Protestants do not have a unified view of issues such as the ones you listed. Certain denominations may, though I don’t think any are as specific as the CCC when it comes to sexual conduct and acts within a marriage. To some extent, I think the ability to decide for yourself is good. On the other hand, I think that can be taken too far. Protestant Christianity has really lost unity when it comes to issues, which isn’t a good thing.

Also, I would consider your BIL a practicing Lutheran.
 
whatevergirl said:
The two categories of sin (venial vs mortal) can be found in Sacred Scripture. In the Old Covenant there were sins that merited the death penalty and sins that could be expiated by an offering. This Law was a teacher that prepared the way for the faith (Gal. 3:24). In the New Covenant these material categories are replaced by spiritual ones, natural death by eternal death. There are thus daily faults for which we must daily ask forgiveness (Mt. 6:12), for even the “just man falls seven times a day” (Prov. 24:16), and mortal faults that separate the sinner from God (1 Cor. 6:9-10) for all eternity.

What is interesting to note about mortal sin, is that the Greek Orthodox Church doesn’t ‘dub’ it that…rather, they do acknowledge that there are sins that would separate a person from being permitted to receive Communion. St Paul talks about how one should be clean and pure of heart, before coming to the Lord’s table. Hope that helps a bit?
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Don’t forget this one : "He that knoweth his brother to sin a sin which is not to death, let him ask, and life shall be given to him, who sinneth not to death. There is a sin unto death: for that I say not that any man ask. All iniquity is sin. And there is a sin unto death. " (1 John 5: 16-17)
 
whatevergirl said:
I also was speaking with a coworker today, who has become a dear friend over these months, and she explained that she used fertility drugs, and gave birth about 6 months ago to twins. She is Catholic and said …‘if I’m going to Hell for this, how can that be? God brought life into this world through me, the fertility drugs could have been usurped by God, if He truly did not want me to get pregnant.’ I agree to a point. I explained to her the Church’s basic principles and the way that such issues can become slippery slopes. But, again–an otherwise devout Catholic, going to Hell over taking fertility drugs, and bringing life into this world?

Fertility drugs weren’t even on the medical scene until 20 years ago, maybe? I try to have a blind faith, but some of these issues…just seem harsh to condemn a person for wanting to bring life into the world. In the same light, if a person has cancer, and goes through chemo–is that interrupting God’s will perhaps for that person to die? I often ponder how the Church makes such distinctions…do eveything to save a life, but not everything to bring life into the world–both premises based on modern technological advances. No embryos were killed during her implantation. Perhaps, we could say she was lucky…but, she looks at it as she is blessed. She said ‘I can’t look at my boys and think that this was not God’s providence.’ It is hard to see that it isn’t, I agree…yet she is in mortal sin because she took fertility drugs?

I dunno.🤷
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Taking fertility drugs are not a problem with the Church…see Catechism paragraph 2375. The problem as you described it would be her having had fertilized embryos implanted. This takes away the natural way for conceiving children, which is through the marital act, and puts it in the hands of a Dr. Also, most (name removed by moderator)lants like this use multiple fertilized eggs and they implant only some of them leaving the rest to sit frozen until someone decides to kill them or whatever…of the ones implanted, they only expect some to survive so essentially, they are expecting some of them to abort early in the pregnancy. The paragraphs explaining these things better than I can are 2376-2378.

2375 Research aimed at reducing human sterility is to be encouraged, on condition that it is placed "at the service of the human person, of his inalienable rights, and his true and integral good according to the design and will of God."166
 
whatevergirl said:
My BIL (my husband’s brother) is Lutheran…was raised Catholic, as were the rest of my husband’s family, growing up. Most of his family are either now: atheists, Lutheran, Buddhist, or non practicing Catholics. Not sure how this happened, but a thread for another time.

That being said…is there a moral code, similiar to the CCC, that Lutherans follow? Is my BIL considered a fallen away Catholic, or a practicing Lutheran?

Finally, do Protestants have any moral codes, with respect to:

*fertility drugs
*embryonic stem cell research
*natural family planning
*sexual conduct and acts within a marriage

Just curious as to if Protestants and Catholics both follow Christ–why would we be seen as committing mortal sins if we violate certain doctrine, and the Protestants are not held to the same standards?

My BIL recently became an ‘elder’ of the Church…does anyone know what that entails?

Hope I’m making sense…your thoughts are appreciated.🙂
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I would surely not call your BIL a fallen away Catholic. I would call him a quite established practicing Lutheran. It sounds to me that he has begun to establish his faith in the Lutheran church and in my thoughts, that’s perfectly fine. Catholicism isn’t for everyone. To me it is far better to be a practicing Protestant than someone who falls out of church to never care about it again.
 
whatevergirl said:
You use the term legalism…that is the term my husband (who is also a cradle Catholic) uses from time to time. I can understand the reasons behind the Catholic Church’s concern for our well being, both in and out of the bedroom with our spouses, but confused as to why if one does not have intercourse, for whatever the reason, it would be considered ‘evil’ and mortally sinful. That seems too harsh to me…In reading the CCC’s stance on this, it also goes on to say that if one is engaging in foreplay, one should not look to sexual intercourse as the next step, and that is why you are doing that. Understood, but are we to suppose that God created such a pleasurable act to not think of the pleasure in it, in sharing this moment with one’s spouse? I try my best, but it can be challenging.
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I see that you have a profound misunderstanding of the Catholic teachings on sexuality. I suggest you read Pope JP II’s writings on the subject. God definitely created sex to be enjoyed, and that is the Catholic position.

The CCC cites two purposes to sex within marriage. The first is the procreation of children. The second, equally important, is the physical and emotional bonding of the spouses - the “glue” that makes them “one flesh”. The total donation of self, one to another, and the bliss that results from such donation creates a bond of intimacy that cannot be broken. This bond helps the spouses weather the difficulties of life and stay united so that the children will be protected against the breakup of the family.

That is the primary reason why sex outside of marriage is so evil - it creates the sacred family bond between people who have no intention to be bonded as a family under the sacrament of marriage. The pain caused by the breakup of persons so bonded is terribly painful, especially to the children that often result.

God love you,
Paul
 
PaulDupre said:
I see that you have a profound misunderstanding of the Catholic teachings on sexuality. I suggest you read Pope JP II’s writings on the subject. God definitely created sex to be enjoyed, and that is the Catholic position.

The CCC cites two purposes to sex within marriage. The first is the procreation of children. The second, equally important, is the physical and emotional bonding of the spouses - the “glue” that makes them “one flesh”. The total donation of self, one to another, and the bliss that results from such donation creates a bond of intimacy that cannot be broken. This bond helps the spouses weather the difficulties of life and stay united so that the children will be protected against the breakup of the family.

That is the primary reason why sex outside of marriage is so evil - it creates the sacred family bond between people who have no intention to be bonded as a family under the sacrament of marriage. The pain caused by the breakup of persons so bonded is terribly painful, especially to the children that often result.

God love you,
Paul
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Thanks Paul…I actually have been doing a lot of self reflection lately…and praying…and I posted a thread on my epiphany…yes, I did have a misunderstanding of it.
 
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