Do Protestants know where we got the Bible?

[ChurchAuthority]

Yeah, I knew what you meant. Just wanted to make sure others did as well.

But that is really the point, isn’t it? How can anyone determine what is inspired and what is not? I used Clements Letter to the Corinthians as an example because it sounds as inspired as any of Pauls writings. Man, on his own, could never have made that determination. It follows then, that all Christians, Catholic and non-Catholic, must place their hope in the fact that the Catholic Church made its determination through the guidance of the Holy Spirit. And if it did, what does this say about those who choose to believe in the inspired nature of the Bible, yet reject the Catholic Church’s authority to interpret the meaning it contains?

I couldn’t have said it better myself!

 

[Anna_Scott]

Yes, I know where we got the Bible. Yet it was my own study of church history that taught me, not any teachings from my church.

Izdaari,

I had the same experience growing up in Southern Baptist Churches. When I started studying the history of the transmission of Scripture (on my own,) I was rather shocked. More shocks came when I studied the history of the different faiths. I was most shocked by the origins of the Southern Baptist Church. There have been discussions among Southern Baptists, for a few years now, regarding changing their name. When you read the history of the SBC, you can see why.

Peace,
Anna

 

[estesbob]

I’m not rooted deeply in Church history, but if Luther believed that, why did he break away?

Pride.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

No.

Yes.

:clapping:

 

[JonNC]

Very straight and to the point!

Very straight and to the point, but beyond anecdotal remarks, no evidence or facts have been provided to support your opinion. As far as the answer being obvious, please see post #4.

I would suggest, however, that the average Catholic in the pew may be as poorly catechized on the issue as the average non-Catholic.

Jon

 

[estesbob]

Very straight and to the point, but beyond anecdotal remarks, no evidence or facts have been provided to support your opinion. As far as the answer being obvious, please see post #4.

I would suggest, however, that the average Catholic in the pew may be as poorly catechized on the issue as the average non-Catholic.

Jon

Difference being that it is not necessary for a Catholic to be well catechized on Scripture as we do not read Scripture to learn the truth, rather we read Scripture to better understand the truth that has already been revealed to us by the Church.

 

[JonNC]

Difference being that it is not necessary for a Catholic to be well catechized on Scripture as we do not read Scripture to learn the truth, rather we read Scripture to better understand the truth that has already been revealed to us by the Church.

Not sure I understand the difference, my friend (BTW, how are you?). Reading scripture is not going to be the way one learns about its development since the Apostolic era. And catechesis, at least in Lutheranism, is often as much about studying the Catechism and teaching documents as scripture itself.

Jon

 

[Matthew_P_Muehl]

In reality is seems that they don’t.Logically speaking they can’t explain how we are able to have the true word of God.

I think it’s because the words Catholic Church are involved!

Matthew

 

[Anna_Scott]

Difference being that it is not necessary for a Catholic to be well catechized on Scripture as we do not read Scripture to learn the truth, rather we read Scripture to better understand the truth that has already been revealed to us by the Church.

estesbob,

I’m not sure what you’re trying to say, exactly. The Pope has encouraged Catholics to improve their familiarity with the Bible:

Link to CatholicTimes: ct.dio.org/comment-and-dialogue/vatican-letter/bible-school-pope-encourages-study-devotion-to-scripture.html

Bible school: Pope encourages study, devotion to Scripture
Written by Cindy Wooden
"
. . . .In his apostolic exhortation, Verbum Domini (The Word of the Lord), the pope encouraged Catholics to embrace and value each of the ways God tries to speak to humanity.

The document, a papal reflection on the conclusions of the 2008 Synod of Bishops on the Word of God, was released at the Vatican Nov. 11 and emphasized the need to improve Catholics’ familiarity with the Bible and with the need to read and understand it in harmony with the church. . . .

See also:

Catholic Church Documents related to Biblical Studies
compiled by Felix Just, S.J., Ph.D.
Link: catholic-resources.org/ChurchDocs/

See also:

Catechism of the Catholic Church
Vatican Link: vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s1c2a3.htm

**PART ONE
THE PROFESSION OF FAITH

SECTION ONE
“I BELIEVE” - “WE BELIEVE”

CHAPTER TWO
GOD COMES TO MEET MAN

ARTICLE 3
SACRED SCRIPTURE

I. CHRIST - THE UNIQUE WORD OF SACRED SCRIPTURE
**
101 In order to reveal himself to men, in the condescension of his goodness God speaks to them in human words: "Indeed the words of God, expressed in the words of men, are in every way like human language, just as the Word of the eternal Father, when he took on himself the flesh of human weakness, became like men."63

102 Through all the words of Sacred Scripture, God speaks only one single Word, his one Utterance in whom he expresses himself completely:64

You recall that one and the same Word of God extends throughout Scripture, that it is one and the same Utterance that resounds in the mouths of all the sacred writers, since he who was in the beginning God with God has no need of separate syllables; for he is not subject to time.65

103 For this reason, the Church has always venerated the Scriptures as she venerates the Lord’s Body. She never ceases to present to the faithful the bread of life, taken from the one table of God’s Word and Christ’s Body.66

104 In Sacred Scripture, the Church constantly finds her nourishment and her strength, for she welcomes it not as a human word, “but as what it really is, the word of God”.67 "In the sacred books, the Father who is in heaven comes lovingly to meet his children, and talks with them."68. . . . . .

V. SACRED SCRIPTURE IN THE LIFE OF THE CHURCH

131 "And such is the force and power of the Word of God that it can serve the Church as her support and vigor, and the children of the Church as strength for their faith, food for the soul, and a pure and lasting fount of spiritual life."109 Hence "access to Sacred Scripture ought to be open wide to the Christian faithful."110

132 "Therefore, the study of the sacred page should be the very soul of sacred theology. The ministry of the Word, too - pastoral preaching, catechetics and all forms of Christian instruction, among which the liturgical homily should hold pride of place - is healthily nourished and thrives in holiness through the Word of Scripture."111

133 The Church "forcefully and specifically exhorts all the Christian faithful. . . to learn the surpassing knowledge of Jesus Christ, by frequent reading of the divine Scriptures. Ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ.112

Peace,
Anna

 

[estesbob]

estesbob,

I’m not sure what you’re trying to say, exactly. The Pope has encouraged Catholics to improve their familiarity with the Bible:

See also:

See also:

Peace,
Anna

I agree we should read Scripture but we are not a Sola Scriptura Church. Scripture is just one of the three facets supporting Catholic Doctrine, the other two being Sacred Tradion and the infallible teachngs of the Magestrium. Since protestant denominations acknowledge no authority outside of Scripture studying is much more important thato them than it is to a Catholics

 

[Nicea325]

That doesn’t even make sense. Your statement is contradictory.

Heresy is heresy because it is false. It is not of God, it of man and imagination.

If you are brought closer to God by analyzing why the heresy is false, it is not the heresy, but Truth that is bringing you to God.

Heresy doesn’t teach you about Truth. It expresses false ideas. False ideas damage your spiritual life and relationship with God by either changing your relationship with God (through understanding) and/or confusing the individual. If spiritual death is more severe than physical death, then spiritual confusion (a sickness) is not something to be entertained.

To ‘entertain’ falsehoods, for whatever personal reasoning, is to invite confusion into your life.

I agree 100%. Heresy can push one further away from God,not closer.

 

[Tony888]

Difference being that it is not necessary for a Catholic to be well catechized on Scripture as we do not read Scripture to learn the truth, rather we read Scripture to better understand the truth that has already been revealed to us by the Church.

How does the RCC ‘reveal truth’ to you if not primarily through scripture?

• I thought the mass readings came from scripture
• I’ve never heard that the Catechism is used as a direct source in mass

 

[estesbob]

How does the RCC ‘reveal truth’ to you if not primarily through scripture?

• I thought the mass readings came from scripture
• I’ve never heard that the Catechism is used as a direct source in mass

Through the unchanging teachings of the Church as supported by tradition and Scripture

 

[Mark_David]

Hi JonC, in answer to your #4 post : You’d be the first to admit that Lutheranism is closer to Catholicism than most (if not all) other branches of Protestantism. How many other Protestants in the pews are well-learned on Luther, let alone on Catholic history? I’m familiar with both of those quotes you posted; I guess old Marty didn’t have much positive to say about the Church outside of them Do you have the date for the second quote? That must have been before he was excommunicated.

 

[Izdaari]

Izdaari,

I had the same experience growing up in Southern Baptist Churches. When I started studying the history of the transmission of Scripture (on my own,) I was rather shocked. More shocks came when I studied the history of the different faiths. I was most shocked by the origins of the Southern Baptist Church. There have been discussions among Southern Baptists, for a few years now, regarding changing their name. When you read the history of the SBC, you can see why.

Peace,
Anna

That inspired me to look up the history of the SBC. Hmm, interesting. Thanks!

 

[ESMDHokie77]

Hi JonC, in answer to your #4 post : You’d be the first to admit that Lutheranism is closer to Catholicism than most (if not all) other branches of Protestantism. How many other Protestants in the pews are well-learned on Luther, let alone on Catholic history? I’m familiar with both of those quotes you posted; I guess old Marty didn’t have much positive to say about the Church outside of them Do you have the date for the second quote? That must have been before he was excommunicated.

Your statement reminds me of something I just read in “If Protestantism Is True” by Devin Rose, (an excellent book by the way), about modern day evangelicals. The statement is essentially this: no matter how much modern day evangelicals owe to the reformers and how similar they are, they (generally) aren’t interested in reading about the reformers because all they need is to read the Bible for the truth.

 

[JonNC]

=Mark David;8103170]Hi JonC, in answer to your #4 post : You’d be the first to admit that Lutheranism is closer to Catholicism than most (if not all) other branches of Protestantism.

With the possible exception of some Anglicans, I believe you are correct.

How many other Protestants in the pews are well-learned on Luther, let alone on Catholic history?

Some in the pews probably care little more about Luther than Rome, to be sure, in large part because of what you stated in the first sentence. First, however, I would say that, if well catechized, despite denomination, they have a level of knowledge of the history of the Church. Secondly, my quoting Luther to the OP was to make sure it is understood that expressing generalities about protestants is usually filled with exceptions. I would suggest that Anglicans, perhaps Methodists, and some others probably have a reasonable level of knowledge about Church history, again if they are well catechized.

I’m familiar with both of those quotes you posted; I guess old Marty didn’t have much positive to say about the Church outside of them Do you have the date for the second quote? That must have been before he was excommunicated

I’m sure, based on what happened, he wasn’t terribly enamored with Rome.
The second quote was in an open letter to Pope Leo in 1520.

Jon

 

[JonNC]

Your statement reminds me of something I just read in “If Protestantism Is True” by Devin Rose, (an excellent book by the way), about modern day evangelicals. The statement is essentially this: no matter how much modern day evangelicals owe to the reformers and how similar they are, they (generally) aren’t interested in reading about the reformers because all they need is to read the Bible for the truth.

I suspect you may be right. Some of the online writings about Luther by some apporach the hostility sometimes expressed about Rome. One would think, however, that this kind of dedication to scripture would lead one to read more about its history since the Apostolic age. Perahps those posters from that perspective would share their views and experiences. Until they do, it seems hard to make a statement based in fact regarding what they know and don’t know about the history of the Bible.

I will say this in closing, I am honestly perplexed by those who are unwilling to acknowledge the efforts of the undivided Church, and even the Catholic Church since the Schism.

Jon

 

[Jim_Dandy]

That inspired me to look up the history of the SBC. Hmm, interesting. Thanks!

I find the history of all man-made ecclesial communities interesting – the Assemblies of God, for example, founded in 1914 in Hot Springs, Arkansas. There is only one Church founded by Christ for the salvation of the world, in A.D. 33, in Jerusalem.

Jim Dandy
Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, ecstatic to be Catholic!

 

[estesbob]

That inspired me to look up the history of the SBC. Hmm, interesting. Thanks!

For Protestants, it is imperative that they not examine any Church history prior to the so-called Reformation.