Do Protestants really follow the Bible alone?

[batman1973]

I ask you then to name the books of the Bible.

Seems to me that there is a difference between what the 4th Century Catholic Magisterium and the 21st Century Catholic Magisterium agree upon as the Canonical Books of Holy Scripture and what books are contained in the Protestant Bible today.

This is a faily simple request that I hope you do not ignore. I admit that I have not read a Protestant version of the Bible in many years, so please enlighten me.

I think you know full well that the Protestant version of the Bible has 66 books. My bone of contention with you is that you accuse Martin Luther of removing books. PROVE IT. I did a google search, and guess what? HE DIDN’T! So, pray ye, recite for me thy doctrine.

 

[Papa_Paul]

I think you know full well that the Protestant version of the Bible has 66 books. My bone of contention with you is that you accuse Martin Luther of removing books. PROVE IT. I did a google search, and guess what? HE DIDN’T! So, pray ye, recite for me thy doctrine.

If you are happy with your research and feel vindicated, I am happy for you. The Catholic Bible contains 73 books.

HMMMM … I wonder what happened to the Protestant Bible to be missing all those books from the 4th Century Catholic Church. I guess we will never know.

 

[benjohnson]

I
Pehaps I should disappear?

No don’t disappear - if you have truth to tell, then tell it! All I’m asking is that you be convincing and not divisive.

The type of person that can be convinced by the truth, is generally the same kind of person who is put off by broadside attacks.

You have an opertunity here with several non-catholics to convince them of their errors - make the most of it.

 

[BVMFatima]

If you are happy with your research and feel vindicated, I am happy for you. The Catholic Bible contains 73 books.

HMMMM … I wonder what happened to the Protestant Bible to be missing all those books from the 4th Century Catholic Church. I guess we will never know.

 

[nitesnake]

I think you know full well that the Protestant version of the Bible has 66 books. My bone of contention with you is that you accuse Martin Luther of removing books. PROVE IT. I did a google search, and guess what? HE DIDN’T! So, pray ye, recite for me thy doctrine.

Most any bible scholar (even Lutherans) will tell you that Luther did remove books from the bible that he considered apostasy.

Like most other protestants, you’re trying to convince yourself of something which simply isn’t true.

 

[benjohnson]

If you are happy with your research and feel vindicated, I am happy for you. The Catholic Bible contains 73 books.

HMMMM … I wonder what happened to the Protestant Bible to be missing all those books from the 4th Century Catholic Church. I guess we will never know.

This error looks to be fixed in our synod. The LCMS has recently published the detuterocanonicals with a study guide, and has indicated that in the future, it will probably include them in it’s English bibles at some point.

German Lutheran bibles, as a rule, always containd the detutercanonicals following Luther’s example - German and Scandinavian Lutherans typically bought their English bibiles from the English bible publishers that excluded them after the Westminster confession.

 

[Papa_Paul]

No don’t disappear - if you have truth to tell, then tell it! All I’m asking is that you be convincing and not divisive.

The type of person that can be convinced by the truth, is generally the same kind of person who is put off by broadside attacks.

You have an opertunity here with several non-catholics to convince them of their errors - make the most of it.

I assume others to be as hard headed as myself. That means, the only person who can convince me that I even have errors is myself.

I pose questions and make statements that I believe lead to the truth. It is up to the audience to follow, if they so choose.

I believe in “Learn by doing!” I was never much of book learner myself, until I needed to fix something. Then I posed questions and discovered the Motors Manual. I was not any smarter but I learned by doing and things got fixed.

 

[Papa_Paul]

This error looks to be fixed in our synod. The LCMS has recently published the detuterocanonicals with a study guide, and has indicated that in the future, it will probably include them in it’s English bibles at some point.

German Lutheran bibles, as a rule, always containd the detutercanonicals following Luther’s example - German and Scandinavian Lutherans typically bought their English bibiles from the English bible publishers that excluded them after the Westminster confession.

I hope this happens. There is so much wisdom within.

I would also recommend the Dedache and The Shepard of Hermas. I have enjoyed reading many of the Books that did not make the final cut of 73 books, and found good reason for their exclusion.

 

[batman1973]

If you are happy with your research and feel vindicated, I am happy for you. The Catholic Bible contains 73 books.

HMMMM … I wonder what happened to the Protestant Bible to be missing all those books from the 4th Century Catholic Church. I guess we will never know.

Wow. You really don’t read, do you? Or do you only read what you want? Luther did not at any time REMOVE any books. Don’t believe me?Fine. Search the threads here. Far more learned Catholics have said that he did not. They were removed by publishers to save money on printing costs. Now, care to make any more inaccurate statements, or are you done here?

 

[benjohnson]

Most any bible scholar (even Lutherans) will tell you that Luther did remove books from the bible that he considered apostasy.

Like most other protestants, you’re trying to convince yourself of something which simply isn’t true.

You’re simply wrong: if you can read German, here’s the title pages of Luther’s bible

lstc.edu/gruber/luthers_bible/1534.php

Scroll down, and you can see the ‘missing’ books even if you don’t quite read German.

http://www.lstc.edu/gruber/luthers_...mage&title=Gruber38a&img=images/gruber38a.jpg

 

[PRmerger]

I agree, sometimes it is difficult for me to be diplomatic.

I ask that you pray for me to find a more appealing approach. Maybe this venue is beyond my reach as a vehicle to bring others to the fullness of Christianity.

I was hoping to inspire curiosity, instead I may be causing deeper division.

Pehaps I should disappear?

You don’t need to disappear.

But I suggest you model your posts after a few prolific and charitable posters here. Copy their styles, and perhaps your comments will be better received.

To wit, in addition to the posters here of late on this thread, I suggest you imitate the manner of posting of: guanophore, pablope, KathleenGee, Anna Scott, GKC…

 

[benjohnson]

To wit, in addition to the posters here of late on this thread, I suggest you imitate the manner of posting of: guanophore, pablope, KathleenGee, Anna Scott, GKC…

Put youself on that list, PRmerger! I bet that between all the Catholics you’ve listed and yourself, there’s been not a few people finding themselvs in RCIA.

 

[dberrie2000]

It might be more accurate to say there is a Protestant ethos rather than a philosophy which all sects stemming from the Reformation share.

I would not disagree with that, but any denomination which claims water baptism is essential for salvation, does not share a theology that is common to most Protestant denominations, nor their theology.

Protestant denominations, for the main, are faith alone–no acts of obedience necessary for His grace unto life. Most sola fide denominations separate faith from works–when referring to salvational requirements.

 

[PRmerger]

Put youself on that list, PRmerger! I bet that between all the Catholics you’ve listed and yourself, there’s been not a few people finding themselvs in RCIA.

Awww, shucks, friend.

 

[JustaServant]

Please!

This is the electronic age, as well as the age of the w.w.w.

Do not act as if you can not just Google: “Martin Luther Bipolar” or “Martin Luther Manic Depressive”

There are various studies and opinions that have been submitted for decades from Catholic and non-Catholic Psychologists and Psychiatrists about Martin Luther.

It is the same for any assertion. Do not take my word, when the Web holds the answers.

Doing psychological examinations of people who have been dead for 500 years is certainly not good psychology. Just becase a few one can a few psychiatrists who will do so proves nothing. I simply point you to the cable ‘news’ channels which hosts many such ‘pundits’ who are willing to sell thier services for a buck.
I really believe you need to change your rotwieler style of posting, it impresses no one and your voice will be ignored.

 

[asd72]

I would not disagree with that, but any denomination which claims water baptism is essential for salvation, does not share a theology that is common to most Protestant denominations, nor their theology.

Protestant denominations, for the main, are faith alone–no acts of obedience necessary for His grace unto life. Most sola fide denominations separate faith from works–when referring to salvational requirements.

“Faith alone” is mentioned in James 2:24, but it says: You see that a man is justified by works and not by FAITH ALONE.

Catholics believe we are brought into the covenant family of God by faith and baptism, which is a total free gift of God. But as a child of God we must have what the Apostle Paul called “faith working through love” (Gal 5:6). Paul says if he has faith and not love he is nothing (1Cor 13:2).

He who believes in the Son has eternal life, he WHO DOES NOT OBEY the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him (John 3:36). John seems to have a different view of obedience to you! Jesus too! I seem to remember Him saying “if you love me you will keep my commandments”.

Jesus sound like He wants us to OBEY and LOVE.

 

[JonNC]

Most any bible scholar (even Lutherans) will tell you that Luther did remove books from the bible that he considered apostasy.

Like most other protestants, you’re trying to convince yourself of something which simply isn’t true.

Luther’s translationof the Bible into German contains 74 books. This is a simple fact.

Jon

 

[Randy_Carson]

Luther’s translationof the Bible into German contains 74 books. This is a simple fact.

Jon

Jon-

Would Martin Luther have removed the Book of James from the New Testament if not for the intervention of others?

 

[JonNC]

Jon-

Would Martin Luther have removed the Book of James from the New Testament if not for the intervention of others?

Not based on what he said:
“…I will say nothing of the fact that many assert with much probability that this epistle is not by James the apostle, and that it is not worthy of an apostolic spirit; although, whoever was its author, it has come to be regarded as authoritative.”

and

“Though this epistle of St. James was rejected by the ancients, I praise it and consider it a good book, because it sets up no doctrines of men but vigorously promulgates the law of God. However, to state my own opinion about it, though without prejudice to anyone, I do not regard it as the writing of an apostle;"

He questioned its authorship, and the way James seems to speak very little of Gospel, but more of law. Its also a fact that he preached from James until his death.

Jon

 

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 —I would not disagree with that, but any denomination which claims water baptism is essential for salvation, does not share a theology that is common to most Protestant denominations, …
Protestant denominations, for the main, are faith alone–no acts of obedience necessary for His grace unto life. Most sola fide denominations separate faith from works–when referring to salvational requirements.

“Faith alone” is mentioned in James 2:24, but it says: You see that a man is justified by works and not by FAITH ALONE.

Amen. Which means, for me–anyone interpreting faith alone to mean there are no acts of obedience to Jesus Christ required for His grace unto life are outside of the Bible.

Catholics believe we are brought into the covenant family of God by faith and baptism,

Although I am LDS–I would agree with the Catholics. That is Biblical. But most Protestant denominations would call that false doctrine.

which is a total free gift of God. But as a child of God we must have what the Apostle Paul called “faith working through love” (Gal 5:6). Paul says if he has faith and not love he is nothing (1Cor 13:2).

I don’t understand repentance and water baptism being a free gift–unless you are referring to the opportunity to do such. Repentance and water baptism was given for the remission of sins–and that is not a free gift–it is an opportunity. The free gift is described as such:

Romans 5:18—King James Version (KJV)

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

That free gift came to all men–regardless of faith.

He who believes in the Son has eternal life, he WHO DOES NOT OBEY the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him (John 3:36).

Amen!! And that is my point–God gives His grace to those who obey Him–obedience to Jesus CHrist is a mandate for eternal life–and anyone who teaches that obedience is not necessary–is teaching a doctrine of satan, IMO.

John seems to have a different view of obedience to you! Jesus too! I seem to remember Him saying “if you love me you will keep my commandments”.

Nope. The LDS are not faith alone–they believe in obedience to Jesus Christ as necessary for eternal life.

Jesus sound like He wants us to OBEY and LOVE.

Not only sounds like–but commands it.

Hebrews 5:9—King James Version (KJV)

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;