Do regular Catholics (like me) really commit so many mortal sins? Really?!

[SHoJjhmou]

Grievious matter is surely not determined by monetary value, but by the action itself. Even stealing a pin is a breach of the decalogue, and that is what constitutes grievious matter, not the value of the item stolen.

No, the definition earlier from the Baltimore Catechism simply states that ‘Sufficient reflection’ means that "we must know the thought, word or deed to be sinful at the time we are guilty of it". That has got nothing to do with the value of the item you wish to steal. Stealing, regardless of what you are stealing, is sinful. Stealing is always grave matter as it is a breach of the Ten Commandments. There is no ‘get out clause’ for stealing items of low monetary value.

The Ten Commandments did not say “Thou shalt not steal things of great value, but it’s OK to steal little things”.

That is quite different. In that case you had not intended to kill.

We also must know at the time we make the decision to sin that the sin we are committing is mortally sinful…this is included in the sufficient reflection/full knowledge condition…

Also, there are such things in which a sin is small enough even if it is one of the commandments it would not be grave matter…such as a teenager disobeying his parents and throwing away his vegetables, or one stealing a one dollar bill from a man who is not poor…

Although the question was not raised there is a difference between killing and murdering…murdering is sinful, whereas killing is not…

Hope I might have been able to be of any type of help…

 

[Brendan_64]

The Baltimore Catechism addresses this (I made the red marking):
Q. 1290. What is the seventh Commandment?
A. The seventh Commandment is: Thou shalt not steal.

Q. 1291. What sin is it to steal?
A. To steal is a mortal or venial sin, according to the amount stolen either at once or at different times. Circumstances may make the sin greater or less, and they should be explained in confession.

You are right, it is not okay to steal smaller things. Venial sin is still wrong.

I did not know this, I ought to get myself a Baltimore Catechism.

 

[SHoJjhmou]

The Baltimore Catechism addresses this (I made the red marking):
Q. 1290. What is the seventh Commandment?
A. The seventh Commandment is: Thou shalt not steal.

Q. 1291. What sin is it to steal?
A. To steal is a mortal or venial sin, according to the amount stolen either at once or at different times. Circumstances may make the sin greater or less, and they should be explained in confession.

You are right, it is not okay to steal smaller things. Venial sin is still wrong.

 

[steve_b]

I came back to the faith over a year ago, and was in a state of mortal sin but have repented.

Welcome home :tiphat:
b:

I do feel that many people on this forum (myself included) are scrupulous. I have committed most of the typical mortal sins mentioned in earlier post but changed my life entirely when I came back to the church.

Scrupulosity = The habit of imagining sin where none exists, or grave sin where the matter is venial

I’ve been on these forums for 10 years, and I have to say, I don’t run into people who inflate no wrong to wrong, nor no wrong to mortal sin wrong. I’m trying to think of a conversation where that happened and I can’t think of one. What’s more prevelant that I find, is the opposite of that.

Taking mortal sin and dumbing it down to a venial sin or no sin at all.

THAT’s not being scrupulous, but it is being wreckless.
b:

on this forum people talk frequently about confessing mortal sins which has led me to (incorrectly) believe that most devout catholics are frequently in a state of mortal sin.

Let’s qualify that a bit with some examples.

• C & E Catholics (Christmas and Easter Catholics) only go to mass 2 times a year. They deliberately miss mass on the other 50 Sundays and other holy days of obligation. Objectively speaking, they are all in mortal sin. How many of THEM go to confession before receiving the Euchrist on the only 2 masses they attend in the year?
• If knowing up front they are intending to only go to mass twice /year, they would make the sacrament of confession a mockery to go just for those masses they attend.
• If they don’t go to confession, and receive the Eucharist in mortal sin they heap sacrilege on top of their mortal sin.
• If the stats are correct, supposedly 20% of Catholics faithfully go to mass on Sunday and other holy days of obligation. They probably live out their faith in the other areas as well. But it also means 80% don’t live out their Catholic faith… and objectively speaking, 80% are in mortal sin because of missing mass.

That’s alot of Catholics in mortal sin. In extension, I certainly don’t think 80% of Catholics have a legitimate excuse to miss Sunday mass all year long.

Why is missing mass so serious?

From The CCC [2178 (Catechism of the Catholic Church - Paragraph # 2178) & scripture #22

 

[backtocatholic]

Do you really think that the Ten Commandments are so difficult to break then? Because that is grave matter.

Grave matter is not just the things that secular society views as grave (murder, rape etc) or sexual sins. Breaking the Ten Commandments constitutes grave matter.

Perhaps people should open their Catechisms and read the relevant sections as it is all in there and written in quite straightforward language.

Yes. I do understand that to break any of the ten commandments in a serious way is a mortal sin. My problem is that I think I am committing mortal sin in many instances when I am not. I have recieved and continue to receive guidance from a number of priests in relation to this.

My point is that it should be possible for a committed christian to get to the stage where they rarely commit a mortal sin.

My other point is that many posts on this forum - including this one seem to imply that is almost impossible to be free of mortal sin and this type of thinking breeds scrupolosity.

In my own case I have found the advice of experienced priests to be very encouraging and positive. I have also gained a lot of knowledge from participating in the forum and have recieved many kind and insightful replies to many of my posts.

However in my case all this talk of how easy it is to commit a mortal sin has caused me to get things out of proportion. At the end of the day none of us here (myself included) have all the answers.

 

[SHoJjhmou]

Yes. I do understand that to break any of the ten commandments in a serious way is a mortal sin. My problem is that I think I am committing mortal sin in many instances when I am not. I have recieved and continue to receive guidance from a number of priests in relation to this.

My point is that it should be possible for a committed christian to get to the stage where they rarely commit a mortal sin.

My other point is that many posts on this forum - including this one seem to imply that is almost impossible to be free of mortal sin and this type of thinking breeds scrupolosity.

In my own case I have found the advice of experienced priests to be very encouraging and positive. I have also gained a lot of knowledge from participating in the forum and have recieved many kind and insightful replies to many of my posts.

However in my case all this talk of how easy it is to commit a mortal sin has caused me to get things out of proportion. At the end of the day none of us here (myself included) have all the answers.

Whoa whoa whoa. Hold it. First of all, breaking the Ten Commandments in A SERIOUS WAY is grave matter. Disobeying your parents (breaking the 4th Commandment), fighting with your brothers, etc, are not grave matter. Defrauding or intentionally murdering others is.

Also, you NEED to have sufficient reflection and full consent.

You ABSOLUTELY CANNOT commit a mortal sin accidentally. DO NOT GO DOWN THE PATH YOU ARE GOING. I went down that path myself, believing almost anything was grave matter, and that is a major reason why I’m still to this day recovering from scruples.

Don’t worry about offending God. That’s how you screw up.

Also, take the advice of a good confessor. People on the internet are not always right, you know.

 

[SHoJjhmou]

Also, like I said before, we can never know if someone has mortally sinned, no matter what.

The person who skips Mass on Sundays might be under pressure by a member of their family to not go, he might not even know of the obligation, he might have accidentally missed Mass, he might have forgotten to go to Mass, he might live too far away to go to Mass, he might be sick or convalescent, he might have to save a person’s life/be in the military, etc.

Remember, we will be judged according to how we judge others.

However, don’t be afraid to admonish the sinner (don’t worry, in order to commit a mortal sin of omission by not admonishing the sinner, 5 conditions must be met, not including sufficient reflection/full consent of the will) for fear of judging.

 

[backtocatholic]

Welcome home :tiphat:

Scrupulosity = The habit of imagining sin where none exists, or grave sin where the matter is venial

I’ve been on these forums for 10 years, and I have to say, I don’t run into people who inflate no wrong to wrong, nor no wrong to mortal sin wrong. I’m trying to think of a conversation where that happened and I can’t think of one. What’s more prevelant that I find, is the opposite of that.

Taking mortal sin and dumbing it down to a venial sin or no sin at all.

THAT’s not being scrupulous, but it is being wreckless.

Let’s qualify that a bit with some examples.

• C & E Catholics (Christmas and Easter Catholics) only go to mass 2 times a year. They deliberately miss mass on the other 50 Sundays and other holy days of obligation. Objectively speaking, they are all in mortal sin. How many of THEM go to confession before receiving the Euchrist on the only 2 masses they attend in the year?
• If knowing up front they are intending to only go to mass twice /year, they would make the sacrament of confession a mockery to go just for those masses they attend.
• If they don’t go to confession, and receive the Eucharist in mortal sin they heap sacrilege on top of their mortal sin.
• If the stats are correct, supposedly 20% of Catholics faithfully go to mass on Sunday and other holy days of obligation. They probably live out their faith in the other areas as well. But it also means 80% don’t live out their Catholic faith… and objectively speaking, 80% are in mortal sin because of missing mass.

That’s alot of Catholics in mortal sin. In extension, I certainly don’t think 80% of Catholics have a legitimate excuse to miss Sunday mass all year long.

Why is missing mass so serious?

From The CCC [2178 (Catechism of the Catholic Church - Paragraph # 2178) & scripture #22

By devout catholics I am not referring to those who are picking and choosing which rules to follow but rather those who are incessantly trying to follow all of the rules while also loving God and doing their best to living good lives.

Also as catholics we cannot judge others. (I struggle with this one myself) and we are not allowed to judge the souls of others. We cannot know the intentions behind other peoples actions.

 

[SHoJjhmou]

I really feal like that line in the Catechism is really causing some confusion.

If you would read “Grave Matter” by Jimmy Akin, you would understand the whole thing better.

 

[Cat]

Yes. I do understand that to break any of the ten commandments in a serious way is a mortal sin. My problem is that I think I am committing mortal sin in many instances when I am not. I have recieved and continue to receive guidance from a number of priests in relation to this.

My point is that it should be possible for a committed christian to get to the stage where they rarely commit a mortal sin.

My other point is that many posts on this forum - including this one seem to imply that is almost impossible to be free of mortal sin and this type of thinking breeds scrupolosity.

In my own case I have found the advice of experienced priests to be very encouraging and positive. I have also gained a lot of knowledge from participating in the forum and have recieved many kind and insightful replies to many of my posts.

However in my case all this talk of how easy it is to commit a mortal sin has caused me to get things out of proportion. At the end of the day none of us here (myself included) have all the answers.

All that you say makes sense to me. It’s the reason I started this thread. Although steve b says that he has not seen this, I have seen it many times over the years on CAF–Catholics who never receive Holy Communion because they believe that everything they say, do, and think is a mortal sin. In one of my posts on this thread, I mentioned the poor Catholic who was worried that swallowing his own saliva was breaking the Fast before Mass, and therefore was a mortal sin. How very sad.

As interesting as the discussion about mortal/grave sin has been, I think that some of the posters on this thread have an overly-optimistic and completely unrealistic view of just how knowledgeable Catholics are about their own Church.

I honestly think that at this point in history, at least in the United States, many Catholics are beset with the same “invincible ignorance” that many Protestants suffer from.

These “Protestant Catholics” honestly, truly, yes, really!–do not realize that missing Mass is “mortal sin.” I doubt they know that there is such a thing as “mortal and venial sin,” or in fact, that there is such a thing as “sin.”

There is so much situational ethics around, and I think that many Catholics have fallen for it–they honestly, in their heart of hearts, believe that what’s wrong for some isn’t wrong for all, and what’s right for some isn’t right for all. Really, steve b! Yes, it’s terrible, but it’s reality, at least IMO.

If I am correct, then these Catholics should not be judged by all of us who know better, but pitied and prayed for. I believe that God wants us to gently lead these “Protestant Catholics” back to the Church, but we can’t do it with a whip. That will make them run away even more.

 

[backtocatholic]

Thanks. I think that your comments about not understanding our faith is very true. I’ve only started to understand our faith and boy am I confused. We can get as many definitions of mortal sin and a general understanding of the 3 conditions but its the practical application of these conditions I have trouble with. And yes - I am one of those people who seldom recieves Communion. Normally within the first hour after confession I worry that I’ve committed a mortal sin. I am scheduling yet another meeting with a priest to discuss this. Please keep me in your prayers.

 

[SHoJjhmou]

Thanks. I think that your comments about not understanding our faith is very true. I’ve only started to understand our faith and boy am I confused. We can get as many definitions of mortal sin and a general understanding of the 3 conditions but its the practical application of these conditions I have trouble with. And yes - I am one of those people who seldom recieves Communion. Normally within the first hour after confession I worry that I’ve committed a mortal sin. I am scheduling yet another meeting with a priest to discuss this. Please keep me in your prayers.

Praying for you. I know how awful it is to be scrupulous.

A word of advice for you: Doubtful sins should ABSOLUTELY not keep you away from receiving our Lord, even if we might think they are mortal. Unless you can swear on a Bible that you have willingly and knowingly commited a mortal sin (with all the three requirements), you should receive.

And please, if you know of a reliable priest, please follow his advice. It will quench your fears of commiting a mortal sin two-fold.

Remember, God loves you. Don’t scare yourself. God never gives us too big crosses that we can’t handle…with God’s help. Just trust in Him.

[SIGN]Don’t give up! God always comes out victorious![/SIGN]

 

[Pug]

Thanks. I think that your comments about not understanding our faith is very true. I’ve only started to understand our faith and boy am I confused. We can get as many definitions of mortal sin and a general understanding of the 3 conditions but its the practical application of these conditions I have trouble with. And yes - I am one of those people who seldom recieves Communion. Normally within the first hour after confession I worry that I’ve committed a mortal sin. I am scheduling yet another meeting with a priest to discuss this. Please keep me in your prayers.

Praying for you and your meeting with the priest to be fruitful.

 

[ProVobis]

Unless you can swear on a Bible that you have willingly and knowingly commited a mortal sin (with all the three requirements), you should receive.

There are other ways of not being properly disposed, such as being non-Catholic, have not fasted, have feelings of sickness, or just had a fight with your spouse, among other things.

 

[Vico]

Grievious matter is surely not determined by monetary value, but by the action itself. Even stealing a pin is a breach of the decalogue, and that is what constitutes grievious matter, not the value of the item stolen.

No, the definition earlier from the Baltimore Catechism simply states that ‘Sufficient reflection’ means that “we must know the thought, word or deed to be sinful at the time we are guilty of it”. That has got nothing to do with the value of the item you wish to steal. Stealing, regardless of what you are stealing, is sinful. Stealing is always grave matter as it is a breach of the Ten Commandments. There is no ‘get out clause’ for stealing items of low monetary value.

The Ten Commandments did not say “Thou shalt not steal things of great value, but it’s OK to steal little things”.

That is quite different. In that case you had not intended to kill.

Without sufficient reflection a mistake may be made which effects gravity of the act: it is not fully know how valuable the item is so there is not full knowledge of the gravity. In that case, the person may have not taken it.

The Baltimore Catechism is a series. No. 3 is for post-confirmation. No. 2 and the teachers version No. 4, is pre-confirmation. What I posted first is from No. 3, and my second post with the explanations is from No. 4.

So those are not my comments but the Catholic Church approved lesson from the Baltimore Catechism No. 4. by Rev. Thomas L. KinkeadNihil Obstat: D. J. McMahon, Censor Librorum
Imprimatur: *Michael Augustine, Archbishop of New York, New York, September 5, 1891

Nihil Obstat: Arthur J. Scanlan, STD, Censor Librorum
Imprimatur: *Patrick J. Hayes, D.D., Archbishop of New York, New York, June 29, 1921

cin.org/users/james/ebooks/master/baltimore/bapprob.htm

 

[SHoJjhmou]

There are other ways of not being properly disposed, such as being non-Catholic, have not fasted, have feelings of sickness, or just had a fight with your spouse, among other things.

Oh, I was saying this with the assumption that all of the other conditions were fulfilled…

Although being sick would not keep me away from receiving Our Lord

 

[SHoJjhmou]

Without sufficient reflection a mistake may be made which effects gravity of the act: it is not fully know how valuable the item is so there is not full knowledge of the gravity. In that case, the person may have not taken it.

The Baltimore Catechism is a series. No. 3 is for post-confirmation. No. 2 and the teachers version No. 4, is pre-confirmation. What I posted first is from No. 3, and my second post with the explanations is from No. 4.

So those are not my comments but the Catholic Church approved lesson from the Baltimore Catechism No. 4. by Rev. Thomas L. KinkeadNihil Obstat: D. J. McMahon, Censor Librorum
Imprimatur: *Michael Augustine, Archbishop of New York, New York, September 5, 1891

Nihil Obstat: Arthur J. Scanlan, STD, Censor Librorum
Imprimatur: *Patrick J. Hayes, D.D., Archbishop of New York, New York, June 29, 1921

cin.org/users/james/ebooks/master/baltimore/bapprob.htm

Full knowledge requires one to know if a sin is mortal or venial.

One CANNOT sin ACCIDENTALLY, or at least sin mortally accidenatlly.

If one recognizes the stealing of something to not be grave matter, but still steals, then he has not mortally sinned (however, do not think that one can steal a great deal of many little things without crossing the grave matter boundary…the value of the items stolen adds up, and once you cross an amount which is considered grave (say, the amount that an average person living in the area would earn in a day, or possibly a week) you are passed the line of grave sin).

But theologians (such as Jimmy Akin) have said before that one must know that the act is GRAVE MATTER, not just that it is simply wrong…

 

[HelenRose]

I generally go to confession with a basket full of petty sins. Many petty sins. Which translates to me that I am often a very petty person. I told a priest I foolish I felt because of this basket of sins. He kindly explained to me that petty habitual habits can in time become mortal sins and not to feel foolish in confessing them.

A little unkindness here, a word of gossip there, a blind eye to someone in pain, laziness, pettiness and so on, accumulate and can become a way of life. A way of life that leads us away from Christ.

 

[SHoJjhmou]

I generally go to confession with a basket full of petty sins. Many petty sins. Which translates to me that I am often a very petty person. I told a priest I foolish I felt because of this basket of sins. He kindly explained to me that petty habitual habits can in time become mortal sins and not to feel foolish in confessing them.

A little unkindness here, a word of gossip there, a blind eye to someone in pain, laziness, pettiness and so on, accumulate and can become a way of life. A way of life that leads us away from Christ.

If we get accustomed to commiting venial sins, we might soon find ourselves comitting mortal sins…

It’s best if we just aim to ammend our lives, don’t scruple but don’t be too lax, and ask God for help.

 

[Vico]

Full knowledge requires one to know if a sin is mortal or venial.

One CANNOT sin ACCIDENTALLY, or at least sin mortally accidenatlly.

If one recognizes the stealing of something to not be grave matter, but still steals, then he has not mortally sinned (however, do not think that one can steal a great deal of many little things without crossing the grave matter boundary…the value of the items stolen adds up, and once you cross an amount which is considered grave (say, the amount that an average person living in the area would earn in a day, or possibly a week) you are passed the line of grave sin).

But theologians (such as Jimmy Akin) have said before that one must know that the act is GRAVE MATTER, not just that it is simply wrong…

The sinful character must be known, unless it is a case of willful ignorance, which is culpable. Also, it is possible to mistakenly think that the act you freely consent to is grave matter. This is the opposite situation and shows an intention to sin gravely.