Do Sacraments Save?

[Genesis315]

As for being Catholic being necessary for salvation, this is also a truth. As Scripture tells us, we must be born again to be saved, and when we are born again we become members of Christ’s Body–therefore, membership in His Body, the Church, is necssary for salvation:

1 Corinthians 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members; and all the members of the body, whereas they are many, yet are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or free; and in one Spirit we have all been made to drink.

As Our Lord says, He has only one flock:

John 10:7 Jesus therefore said to them again: Amen, amen I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All others, as many as have come, are thieves and robbers: and the sheep heard them not. 9 I am the door. By me, if any man enter in, he shall be saved: and he shall go in, and go out, and shall find pastures. 10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I am come that they may have life, and may have it more abundantly.

11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd giveth his life for his sheep. 12 But the hireling, and he that is not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and flieth: and the wolf catcheth, and scattereth the sheep: 13 And the hireling flieth, because he is a hireling: and he hath no care for the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd; and I know mine, and mine know me. 15 As the Father knoweth me, and I know the Father: and I lay down my life for my sheep. 16 And other sheep I have, that are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice, and there shall be one fold and one shepherd.

And which flock is this? The one fed by Peter:

John 21:15 When therefore they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter: Simon son of John, lovest thou me more than these? He saith to him: Yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith to him: Feed my lambs. 16 He saith to him again: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? He saith to him: Yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith to him: Feed my lambs. 17 He said to him the third time: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved, because he had said to him the third time: Lovest thou me? And he said to him: Lord, thou knowest all things: thou knowest that I love thee. He said to him: Feed my sheep.

And this has been repeated by spokemen of the Church, in fact quite recently Pope Benedict said this (speaking of St. Cyprian in his audience on June 6, 2007):

Indeed, the Church was easily his favourite subject. Cyprian distinguished between the* visible, *hierarchical *Church *and the *invisible *mystical *Church *but forcefully affirmed that the Church is one, founded on Peter.

He never wearied of repeating that “if a man deserts the Chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, does he think that he is in the Church?” (cf.* De unit. [On the unity of the Catholic Church], *4).

Cyprian knew well that “outside the Church there is no salvation”, and said so in strong words (Epistles 4, 4 and 73, 21); and he knew that “no one can have God as Father who does not have the Church as mother” (*De unit., *6). An indispensable characteristic of the Church is unity, symbolized by Christ’s seamless garment (*ibid., *7): Cyprian said, this unity is founded on Peter (*ibid., *4), and its perfect fulfilment in the Eucharist (*Epistle *63, 13).

Here he simply repeats what his predecessors had said:

Pope John Paul I said this in his audiences of August 27 and September 13 of 1978:

“According to the words of St. Augustine, who takes up an image dear to the ancient Fathers, the ship of the Church must not fear, because it is guided by Christ and by His Vicar. 'Although the ship is tossed about, it is still a ship. It alone carries the disciples and receives Christ. Yes, it is tossed on the sea, but, without it, one would immediately perish.”

“It is difficult to accept some truths, because the truths of faith are of two kinds: some pleasant, others unpalatable to our spirit. For example, it is pleasant to hear that God has so much tenderness for us, even more tenderness than a mother for her children. Other truths, on the contrary, are hard to accept. God must punish if I resist. That is not agreeable, but it is clear that Jesus and the Church are the same thing: indissoluble, inseparable. Christ and the Church are only one thing. It is not possible to say: ‘I believe in Jesus, I accept Jesus, but I do not accept the Church.’ When the poor Pope, when the bishops, the priests, propose the doctrine, they are merely helping Christ. It is not our doctrine; it is Christ’s: we must merely guard it and present it.”

And also Pope John Paul II in this sermon from October 12, 1981 and

“The mystery of salvation is revealed to us and is continued and accomplished in the Church…and from this genuine and single source, like ‘humble, useful, precious and chaste’ water, it reaches the whole world. Dear young people and members of the faithful, like Brother Francis we have to be conscious and absorb this fundamental and revealed truth, consecrated by tradition: ‘There is no salvation outside the Church.’ From her alone there flows surely and fully the life-giving force destined in Christ and in His Spirit, to renew the whole of humanity, and therefore directing every human being to become a part of the Mystical Body of Christ.”

And also in this audience from May 31, 1995

Since Christ brings about salvation through his Mystical Body, which is the Church, the way of salvation is connected essentially with the Church. The axiom extra ecclesiam nulla salus"–“outside the Church there is no salvation”–stated by St. Cyprian (Epist. 73, 21; PL 1123 AB), belongs to the Christian tradition. It was included in the Fourth Lateran Council (DS 802), in the Bull Unam Sanctam of Boniface VIII (DS 870) and the Council of Florence (Decretum pro Jacobitis, DS 1351). The axiom means that for those who are not ignorant of the fact that the Church has been established as necessary by God through Jesus Christ, there is an obligation to enter the Church and remain in her in order to attain salvation (cf. LG 14)…Thus it can also be said that sine ecclesia nulla salus–“without the Church there is no salvation.” Belonging to the Church, the Mystical Body of Christ, however implicitly and indeed mysteriously, is an essential condition for salvation.

 

[Genesis315]

Mingling of grace and obligatory ritual does not work - they are at utter odds with eathother.

Why? Our Lord didn’t think so and neither did the Apostles who commaned people to partake in the rituals of Baptism and the “breaking of the bread” as well as the Apostle James who commanded the sick to be annointed with oil in a ritual for the remission of their sins.

 

[Teflon93]

You are not understanding properly. We now LOVE God’s law. It is no longer I that sin but sin that dwells in me. However, I have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. Read Romans 7. Paul gives a good presentation here. Anyone who PRACTICES SIN has not seen God.

1Jo 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

I certainly admit that I do not understand the bolded passage.

I am interested in how you square that circle.

Catholics certainly agree with the John passage quoted; that is why the sacrament of penitence is necessary, that we who sin can return to the Body of Christ.

Since you presumably do not adhere to the necessity of this sacrament, how do you deal with the continuing appearance of rotten fruit within us as we are all sinners and remain so?

 

[Keikiolu]

Whenever you make anything an “OBLIGATION”, it is a law. When it is law, the Spirit is not at work. …{snip}…

Your categorical “judgment” is not only wrong, but unsupported.

Who “makes” it (some act) an obligation? You (the believer) do, because you BELIEVE that God has asked you to do a thing which is in your best interest.

This kind of obligation (self imposed) can certainly be called a law, and since this “law” is the result of one’s belief that God has asked you to do something, and God ONLY asks you to do what is best for you, this “law” is imposed voluntarily and inspired by the Spirit of God.

The nonsensicalness of protest-ant “anti-true-authoritarianistic” rationalization is quite amusing.

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

 

[Linkowski]

I am not really sure that it is possible to convey what I am trying to convey to you…especially since you are biased. So, rather than sit here and be misunderstood, ridiculed and belittled, I will go somewhere else. This is what Christ would have done when he faced folly of this sort.

 

[Teflon93]

I am not really sure that it is possible to convey what I am trying to convey to you…especially since you are biased. So, rather than sit here and be misunderstood, ridiculed and belittled, I will go somewhere else. This is what Christ would have done when he faced folly of this sort.

Well, only after he’d fashioned a whip, overturned some tables, chased the moneylenders out, and purified the place…Christ certainly didn’t shy away from standing up to people when he needed to!

 

[Linkowski]

Well, only after he’d fashioned a whip, overturned some tables, chased the moneylenders out, and purified the place…Christ certainly didn’t shy away from standing up to people when he needed to!

“My shoes are black”…alright now you tell me they are white!

 

[Keikiolu]

I am not really sure that it is possible to convey what I am trying to convey to you…especially since you are biased. So, rather than sit here and be misunderstood, ridiculed and belittled, I will go somewhere else. This is what Christ would have done when he faced folly of this sort.

If you’re having trouble with your communication skills, we’re always here to help you properly form and clarify what it is that you are trying to convey.

It’s not exactly “cowardice” per se that you’re exhibiting,… more like,… lack of perseverance,… which we are told not to do.

How about showing a little backbone, and understanding that we are telling you WHY we believe as we do, and why it is wrong to believe as you do.

If you can’t handle being told you’re wrong, and running away from the challenge, you certainly are not in the right place to talk,… and are probably not of the right sort to be called anything but a nominal Christian.

But then,… I could be wrong. You might be a first rank Christian having a bad day and losing patience with not being instantly understood and worshipped as the authority that I’m sure you think yourself.

Best to 'ya…!

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

 

[Contarini]

These seven sacraments are nothing more than a series of good works.

No, they aren’t. This is the false assumption that makes their entire argument collapse. You have no reason to take this argument seriously, since they make no attempt to prove their fundamental premise. Sacraments are gifts of God, not human works.

Since the sacraments are supposedly necessary for salvation, and since the sacraments are only available through the Catholic church,

They should not attack Catholicism if they don’t know what Catholics believe. None of the sacraments are only available through the Catholic Church. Baptism, in Catholic belief, is available everywhere (anyone can baptize), though by definition all baptized people are in some sense members of the Catholic Church. It’s true that Catholics don’t recognize the Eucharist (and reconciliation, ordination, anointing, and confirmation) as present among Protestants, but they do recognize it as present among the Orthodox, so the tract is still mistaken.

I ask you again, can you accept that everyone outside the Catholic church will burn forever in hell?

Again, they show their ignorance. The Catholic Church does not teach this, first of all because valid sacraments are found outside the full communion of the Catholic Church, and in the second place because people who implicitly desire the sacraments are understood to receive the grace they convey. Even the Council of Trent, no fountain of mushy ecumenism, said that baptism by desire saved people (though the modern Catholic Church has a more generous understanding of what “baptism by desire” can mean).

Please understand, these sacraments, which the Catholic church contends are necessary for salvation, did not even come from God.

Baptism did not come from God? The Lord’s Supper did not come from God? Marriage did not come from God? Confessing our sins did not come from God? Anointing the sick did not come from God? Laying on of hands did not come from God? This is sheer nonsense. The specific rules governing the sacraments have developed over time, but the basic actions are all found in the New Testament (confirmation is the most dubious one).

If sacraments are necessary for salvation, why does God’s Word proclaim the following?

“But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.” John 20:31

Where does it say that believing in Jesus somehow excludes the sacraments?

“For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.” 1 Corinthians 1:18

This proves nothing. The sacraments all proclaim the Cross and Resurrection of Jesus. Baptism unites us with Christ’s death (Romans 6); the Eucharist makes us sharers in His Body and Blood; confirmation gives us a fuller share in the grace flowing from His wounded side; anointing unites our sickness and death with His and makes His healing mercy accessible to us; reconciliation applies to our penitent souls the forgiveness Christ gained for us on the Cross; ordination makes some of us ministers of Christ’s Cross; and marriage unites a man and a woman in a loving relationship that mirrors that between Christ and the Bride for whom He gave His life.

All the sacraments flow from the Cross. These people are blind and foolish. May God have mercy on them.

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

Whenever you make anything an “OBLIGATION”, it is a law.

So is faith law?

Edwin

 

[NotWorthy]

IIf you can’t handle being told you’re wrong, and running away from the challenge, you certainly are not in the right place to talk,… and are probably not of the right sort to be called anything but a nominal Christian.

But then,… I could be wrong. You might be a first rank Christian having a bad day and losing patience with not being instantly understood and worshipped as the authority that I’m sure you think yourself.

Give LInk a break. He loves the Lord, and that alone should deserve a break. But the fact that we are Christians, too, should mean that we are more than willing to give him a break.

Knowing how to say what you want to say doesn’t mean you are right. If so, Dr. (?) White would be right all the time.

 

[Linkowski]

So is faith law?

Edwin

Saving faith is a gift from God. Grace and works - contrary.

 

[Contarini]

Saving faith is a gift from God.

But without this gift no one will be saved, right?

This is therefore “obligatory” in a sense sacraments are not (since Catholics agree that people can be saved without physically receiving any sacrament–even the Council of Trent taught this).

Your argument is a straw man.

Edwin

 

[Mannyfit75]

Saving faith is a gift from God. Grace and works - contrary.

Your words are contrary to the Scripture itself.
Epistle of James Chapter 2 verse 16-26:

16 And one of you say to them: Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; yet give them not those things that are necessary for the body, what shall it profit? 17 So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself. 18 But some man will say:** Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without works; and I will shew thee, by works, my faith.** 19 Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou, that faith did co-operate with his works; and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled, saying: Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to him to justice, and he was called the friend of God. 24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only? 25 And in like manner also Rahab the harlot, was not she justified by works, receiving the messengers, and sending them out another way?

26 For even as the body without the spirit is dead; so also faith without works is dead.

 

[Gamera]

Some one sent me this article and I dont know what to answer. Please help me! Iam a Catholic and can’t conteplate leaving my Church?

Relax. The article is easily refuted.

Are the sacraments necessary for salvation?

Grace (God’s friendship) is necessary for salvation. Sacraments are the means instituted by Jesus Christ through which grace ordinarily is given to us.

“The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation.” Pg. 292, #1129

The grace itself is what is necessary. Nobody says you must receive all seven sacraments to be saved. Think about it — how many people have received all seven sacraments? Obviously that is not the meaning.

What are the sacraments?:

“There are seven sacraments in the Church: Baptism, Confirmation or Chrismation, Eucharist, Penance, Anointing of the Sick, Holy Orders, and Matrimony.” Pg. 289, #1113

Right. All seven sacraments are found in Scripture: Baptism (Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16; 1 Peter 3:20-21); Communion (Luke 22:19-20; John 6:53-58; 1 Cor. 11:23-25); Confession of sins to God through a priest (Matt 16:19; John 20:21-23); Confirmation (Acts 8:14-17; Heb. 6:2); Marriage (Mark 10:2-12; 1 Cor. 7:39); Ordination (1 Tim. 5:22); Annointing of the Sick (Mark 6:13; James 5:14-15).

These seven sacraments are nothing more than a series of good works.

Nope. Here’s the first major error. Sacraments are not “works” performed by us. They are gifts which we receive. God does all the “work” in a sacrament.

As we have already seen in previous chapters, the Bible states repeatedly that good works will never save anybody:

No. Nowhere does the Bible say that.

“Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight…” Romans 3:20

“deeds OF THE LAW.” meaning the Law of Moses. This is the second major error. Works of the law means obeying Jewish ritual — not good deeds in general. Nowhere does it say that good deeds in general cannot justify us. On the contrary, James 2:24 says we are “justified by works and NOT by faith alone.”

Here is what God thinks of our good works:

“But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags…” Isaiah 64:6

Out of context verse. The next verse reads, “There is no one that calls upon your name” (Is. 64:7). Does that literally mean there is NO ONE who calls on God’s name? No, of course not. It is poetic language. Isaiah is using hyperbole to make his point. He is not telling us that literally all good deeds are worthless – that is absurd.

Must one be a Catholic to be saved?

No. That isn’t what Catholics believe.

Since the sacraments are supposedly necessary for salvation, and since the sacraments are only available through the Catholic church, then obviously, one must be a faithful member of the Catholic church to be saved.

Though you will never hear a spokesperson for Catholicism admit it, this is exactly what this Catholic doctrine purports.

I ask you again, can you accept that everyone outside the Catholic church will burn forever in hell?

Nope. Wrong again. The Catholic Church presumes ALL trinitarian baptisms to be valid, whether performed by a Catholic priest, a Protestant minister, or a circus tent faith healer. Had the author actually studied Catholicism, they would know this.

Traditions of men

… are what the author is using to argue against God’s word.

Please understand, these sacraments, which the Catholic church contends are necessary for salvation, did not even come from God. They are man-made rules which have been handed down through generations.

So when you perform them, you are not obeying God, you are obeying the traditions of men.

All seven sacraments appear in the New Testament.

One must wonder, under such conditions, if these sacraments are really necessary, or if the Catholic church is using man’s traditions to scare people into lifelong obedience to the church, under the threat of eternal damnation.

Silly propaganda meant to scare the uninformed reader.

Salvation: through Christ or sacraments?

False dichotomy. Salvation is BY Christ THROUGH the sacraments.

The balance is conclusory rhetoric penned by someone who doesn’t know their Bible very well.

I hope that helps.

 

[Church_Militant]

Saving faith is a gift from God. Grace and works - contrary

.In your highly fallible modern post reformation interpretation perhaps. Not according to the Word of God.

Do sacraments impart grace by the will of God?

What does the Word of God say?

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? Rise up, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, invoking his name.

 

[upbeatjonm]

You are not understanding properly. We now LOVE God’s law. It is no longer I that sin but sin that dwells in me. However, I have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. Read Romans 7. Paul gives a good presentation here. Anyone who PRACTICES SIN has not seen God.

1Jo 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Linkowski, the purpose of the forum is to discuss issues. Don’t be surprised that you surrounded by Catholics on Catholic Answers forum. But it is good for us to hear other opinions, since it helps us sharpen our faith, and realize how rich the faith is. The Advocate was given to us by Christ, and is infused into us via the sacraments. The Advocate comes through baptism, confirmation, anointing of the sick, and the others. We believe what Jesus said about these sacraments when he initiated them, and gave them to us a a gift. We accept the gift.

 

[fellowChristian]

**Sacrament **

c.1175, from O.Fr. sacrament (12c.), from L. sacramentum “a consecrating,” from sacrare “to consecrate” (see sacred); a Church Latin loan-translation of Gk. mysterion “mystery.”

A Sacrament is a visible sign of an inward grace.

Think of them like a ladder 7 steps to help you find your way to God.

The Sacraments

** What is a sacrament? **

A sacrament is an outward sign instituted by Christ to give grace.
How many sacraments are there?
There are seven sacraments: Baptism, Confirmation, Holy Eucharist, Penance, Anointing of the Sick, Holy Orders, and Matrimony.

** From whom do the sacraments receive their power to give grace? **

The sacraments receive their power to give grace from God, through the merits of Jesus Christ.
Let a man so account us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God. (I Corinthians 4:1)

**Do the sacraments give sanctifying grace? **

The sacraments do give sanctifying grace.
Then they laid their hands upon them, and they received the Holy Ghost. (Acts 8:17)

** Does each of the sacraments also give a special grace? **

Each of the sacraments also gives a special grace, called sacramental grace, which helps one to carry out the particular purpose of that sacrament.

** Do the sacraments always give grace? **

The sacraments always give grace if we receive them with the right dispositions.
Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily, will be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. (I Corinthians 11:27)

** Why are Baptism and Penance called sacraments of the dead? **

Baptism and Penance are called sacraments of the dead because their chief purpose is to give the supernatural life of sanctifying grace to souls spiritually dead through sin.
Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (John 3:5)

** Why are Confirmation, Holy Eucharist, Anointing of the Sick, Holy Orders, and Matrimony called sacraments of the living? **

Confirmation, Holy Eucharist, Anointing of the Sick, Holy Orders, and Matrimony are called sacraments of the living because their chief purpose is to give more grace to souls already spiritually alive through sanctifying grace.

** What sin does one commit who knowingly receives a sacrament of the living in mortal sin? **

He who knowingly receives a sacrament of the living in mortal sin commits a mortal sin of sacrilege, because he treats a sacred thing with grave irreverence.
Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily, will be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. (I Corinthians 11:27)

** Which are the sacraments that can be received only once? **

The sacraments that can be received only once are Baptism, Confirmation, and Holy Orders.

** Why can Baptism, Confirmation, and Holy Orders be received only once? **

Baptism, Confirmation, and Holy Orders can be received only once because they imprint on the soul a spiritual mark, called a character, which lasts forever.
And do not grieve the Holy Ghost of God, in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. (Ephesians 4:30)

 

[fellowChristian]

** Why is Baptism necessary for the salvation of all men? **

Baptism is necessary for the salvation of all men because Christ has said: “Unless a man be born again of water and the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
Now they who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls. (Acts 2:41)

**What are the effects of Confirmation? **

Confirmation increases sanctifying grace, gives its special sacramental grace, and imprints a lasting character on the soul.
And when Paul had imposed his hands on them, the Holy Ghost came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. **(Acts 19:6) **

**What is the Holy Eucharist? **

The Holy Eucharist is a sacrament and a sacrifice. In the Holy Eucharist, under the appearances of bread and wine, the Lord Christ is contained, offered, and received.
I am the living bread that has come down from heaven. If anyone eat of this bread he shall live forever. (John 6:51-52)

** What is Holy Communion? **

Holy Communion is the receiving of Jesus Christ in the sacrament of the Holy Eucharist.
He who eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, abides in me and I in him. **(John 6:57) **

** Whence has the priest the power to forgive sins? **

The priest has the power to forgive sins from Jesus Christ, who said to His apostles and to their successors in the priesthood: “Receive the Holy Ghost; whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.”
Receive the Holy Ghost; whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained. **(John 20:22-23) **

** What is Extreme Unction? **

Extreme Unction is the sacrament which, through the anointing with blessed oil by the priest, and through his prayer, gives health and strength to the soul and sometimes to the body when we are in danger of death from sickness, accident, or old age.
Is any one among you sick? Let him bring in the presbyters of the Church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. **(James 5:14) **

**What authority has the State regarding the marriages of baptized persons? **

Regarding the marriages of baptized persons, the State has the authority to make laws concerning their effects that are merely civil.
Then he said to them, “Render, therefore, to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” **(Matthew 22:21) **

**What is necessary to receive the sacrament of Matrimony worthily? **

To receive the sacrament of Matrimony worthily it is necessary to be in the state of grace, to know the duties of married life, and to obey the marriage laws of the Church.
For we are children of the saints, and we must not be joined together like heathens that know not God.** (Tobias 8:5)**

 

[LSK]

I have to say that I have yet to see anyone belittled or otherwise abused on this particular thread. The fact that we are asking you valid questions, to explain your theological bent, is not belittling you. We are willing to explain and defend the Holy Mother Church and from what I have read on this thread it has been done in a spirit of friendship.

Your definition of sin does not seem to be the same as our definition. Perhaps that is one of the reasons you do not understand how important the Sacraments are to our continued salvation. How would you define sin?