Do Saints talk back to us?

[Linda_Marie]

My question about the Marian apparitions was twofold: WHY does MARY appear to us, and also a general “why would ANY saint appear to us because no one appeared after their death in the bible”.

My brother has many objections to the Catholic Church but seems unwilling to post any of his questions on here. Often times, the questions are good and I want the answer too.

So, could a demon appear as Mary or another saint? That seems to be my brother’s biggest objection with apparitions from Mary. He believes that it is most likely a demon who is trying to lead us away from God and that there were no apparitions in the bible by anyone (other than Jesus) after their death. He said that he thinks that the demon might say stuff which sound biblical (and probably is) just to gain our trust and then they can slowly start to lead us off the road to God.

I told him I think he gives more credit to demons than he does God. I think it is more likely (and am MUCH more willing to believe) that God is sending Mary to deliver a simple message than a demon to appear in the form of someone as holy as Mary, tell us biblical things to follow God, and continue to do this over time just so they can slowly start to divert us from God someday down the road.

Mary appears to call us back to God when people are in serious sin. The message is usually repent, return to the practice of the faith, receive the Sacraments and increase your prayer life or the amount of time you allocate to things of God rather than things of the world.

It is possible for the devil to impersonate a saint or Mary so great care must be taken to discern whether this is the case or not. The Church has a painstakingly slow process to determine this and does not say if an apparition is worthy of belief until after an exhaustive investigation taking years. Even then, you are not required to believe it; it is just worthy of belief and does not add to nor subtract from the deposit of faith given to us by Christ Jesus. It is a matter of private revelation.

Public revelation is binding on all Christians, but private revelation is binding only on those who receive it. The Catholic Church teaches that public revelation was completed, and therefore was concluded, with the death of the last apostle (Vatican II, Dei Verbum 4), but private revelation has continued.

“Throughout the ages, there have been so-called ‘private’ revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium [collective sense of the faithful] knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church. Christian faith cannot accept ‘revelations’ that claim to surpass or correct the revelation of which Christ is the fulfillment, as is the case in certain non-Christian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such ‘revelations’” (Catechism of the Catholic Church 67).

False Apparitions

It behooves us to wait until the Church completes her investigation before following any of them. As your brother says, the devil can hide one lie in a multitude of truths in order to lead us into darkness.

 

[patrick457]

2)What is the point of Marian apparitions? In the bible, no one appeared to the living after they had died, and the only apparitions were by Jesus or Angels.

Well, Samuel - who was dead at the time - certainly appeared to Saul when he went to the Witch of Endor in 1 Samuel 28:3-25. And in 2 Maccabees 15:11-16 (yes, I know it is a Deuterocanonical book), Jeremiah and Onias the high priest - both also deceased - appear to Judas Maccabeus in his dream. And Moses and Elijah showed up with Jesus up on that mountain: Elijah didn’t die yes, but Moses did - only, no one knows where exactly he was buried.

 

[patrick457]

Can I have a reference for this please Thanks!

He was referencing the story of Our Lady of the Pillar.
A story has it that James, son of Zebedee, was preaching in Caesaraugusta (modern-day Zaragoza in Aragon, Spain), to little success. One day, he retired by the banks of the Ebro River when he saw a vision of Mary upon an alabaster pillar surrounded by angels, recalling him back to Jerusalem. Of course, you know what happened when he came back there (Acts 12:1-2).

 

[dje101]

On the subject of Marian Apparitions, can anybody tell me:

1. How many “apparitions” have been reported (roughly)

and

1. How many have been accepted by the CC.

Thanks!

 

[Linda_Marie]

On the subject of Marian Apparitions, can anybody tell me:

1. How many “apparitions” have been reported (roughly)

Thousands, over the centuries, I don’t think we have an exact number.

and

1. How many have been accepted by the CC.

Thanks!

catholicdoors.com/isit/approved.htm

marypages.com/
faithofthefathersapparitions.blogspot.com/

 

[dje101]

Thousands, over the centuries, I don’t think we have an exact number.

catholicdoors.com/isit/approved.htm

marypages.com/
faithofthefathersapparitions.blogspot.com/

Thanks for the links! Very helpful.

However, I’m worried about this one:

1567: SAINT JOHN OF THE CROSS
He is known for having written his great guides for mystics. These are “The Ascent of Mount Carmel” and “The Dark Night Of The Soul.”

Why would someone of the Christian faith write a guide for mystics? Didn’t the bible teach us not to fiddle around with mystics?

 

[AdamC]

Thanks for the links! Very helpful.

However, I’m worried about this one:

1567: SAINT JOHN OF THE CROSS
He is known for having written his great guides for mystics. These are “The Ascent of Mount Carmel” and “The Dark Night Of The Soul.”

Why would someone of the Christian faith write a guide for mystics? Didn’t the bible teach us not to fiddle around with mystics?

A mystic is a person who believes it is possible to have a personal relationship with the divine. Technically, all Christians are mystics.

mystic |ˈmistik|
noun
a person who seeks by contemplation and self-surrender to obtain unity with or absorption into the Deity or the absolute, or who believes in the spiritual apprehension of truths that are beyond the intellect.

That’s according to the New Oxford American Dictionary.

 

[dje101]

A mystic is a person who believes it is possible to have a personal relationship with the divine. Technically, all Christians are mystics.

mystic |ˈmistik|
noun
a person who seeks by contemplation and self-surrender to obtain unity with or absorption into the Deity or the absolute, or who believes in the spiritual apprehension of truths that are beyond the intellect.

That’s according to the New Oxford American Dictionary.

oh, thanks for the clarification!

 

[Shin]

People can be inspired by the Holy Spirit, by angels, and by saints.

Here’s a short story of St. Anthony the Great from the desert…

'Once several brothers visited Abba Anthony and asked him to explain a passage from Leviticus.

The Elder, without saying a thing went out of his cell into the desert.

Abba Ammonas, who was present, knowing the habits of St. Anthony (to pray in private), secretly followed him, without the Saint realizing it.

With amazement he confirmed the following:

"St. Anthony, having removed himself a little into the desert, stood in prayer and confidently cried out to God: ‘My God, send Moses to me, so that he can teach me the meaning of this passage.’ Immediately, I heard a voice from heaven, speaking with St. Anthony.

Abba Ammonas then noted that, while he heard the voice, what was relayed to St. Anthony, he could not comprehend.’

 

[patrick457]

On the subject of Marian Apparitions, can anybody tell me:

1. How many “apparitions” have been reported (roughly)

We can’t really give an exact number. A lot of people over the centuries down to our own time have claimed to have apparitions. In fact, it is said that of the 295 reported apparitions studied by the Holy See through the centuries only about a dozen have been approved, the latest being the May 2008 approval of the 17th- and 18th-century apparitions of Our Lady of Laus in France.

1. How many have been accepted by the CC.

Thanks!

Some of these would be:

Our Lady of Guadalupe (Tepeyac Hill, Mexico; 1531)
Our Lady of Laus (Saint-Étienne-le-Laus, France; 1664-1718)
Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal (Rue du Bac, Paris, France; 1830)
Our Lady of La Salette (La Salette, France; 1846)
Our Lady of Lourdes (Lourdes, France; 1858)
Our Lady of Pontmain (Pontmain, France; 1871)
Our Lady of Fátima (Cova da Iria, Fátima, Portugal; 1917)
Our Lady of Beauraing (Beauraing, Belgium; 1932-1933)
Our Lady of Banneux (Banneux, Belgium; 1933)
Our Lady of Akita (Akita City, Akita Prefecture, Japan; 1973)

There are also a number of feasts based on historical traditions involving purported apparitions. Some of these are:

Our Lady of the Pillar
Our Lady of the Snow
Our Lady of Walsingham (Walsingham, England; 1061)
Our Lady of Mount Carmel
Our Lady of the Rosary

These apparitions do not technically fall in the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith-approved category, since they generally predate the formation of the CDF (then called the Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Roman and Universal Inquisition) in 1542. They are recognized based on the papal declaration of the feast day rather than formal analysis by the Congregation. And as such, the actual historical verity of some of these apparitions is unclear for various reasons (say, the absence or scantiness of contemporary testimony) and has been debated by various experts within the Church.

Some would also point to the apparitions at Egypt, such as the ones at Zeitun during the late 1960’s up to the early 1970’s and those at Assiut in 2000 and 2001, but these, while now approved by authorities of the Coptic Orthodox Church, have not yet been given any official recognition by the Catholic Church.

If I’ve made any misstatements, anyone please feel free to correct.