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jeanne71350
Guest
Just a question…if someone could clarify that would be great. Thanks!
-Jeanne
-Jeanne
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FSSPOblate
Guest
I don’t know exactly about Matrimony, but I know it definitely is not Holy Orders!
L
Lucky10279
Guest
Sisters do not receive either. When they become a religous it is not a sacrament, it is the same for brothers.
Lucky10279 (Mikayla)
Lucky10279 (Mikayla)
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Nowhere_Man
Guest
Neither. They are part of the laity (just like religious brothers), although consecrated in a special way.
J
jeanne71350
Guest
But aren’t they espoused to Christ, called a Bride of Christ, and take a vow? Sounds like marriage. I’ve had teachers tell me 2 different things and I’m confused.
-Jeanne
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Zsofia_A
Guest
It is an interesting question…here even some of the priests are wearing a wedding ring expressing that they belong to Jesus…it is confusing…
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Love_Divine
Guest
I’ve seen that too. I also washere even some of the priests are wearing a wedding ring expressing that they belong to Jesus…it is confusing…
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Trishie
Guest
Neither Matrimony nor Orders. It is not a sacramental, but a devotional espousal, if viewed in that manner. Nuns/Sisters don’t actually enter into a marriage relationship with the Lord. They are committed to loving and serving Him and His people.
Rings denote commitment. They are a sign to others that the Nun or Priest is not available, except in serving as a Sister, Brother, Nun, or Priest. Brothers also do not receive Holy Orders or matrimony, but their commitment, when lived authentically, is truly valuable, as is that of Sisters and Nuns.
Canon Law:
Canon 1055.1 The marriage covenant, by which a man and a woman establish between themselves a partnership of their whole life, and which of its own very nature is ordered to the well-being of the spouses and to the procreation and upbringing of children, has, between the baptised, been raised by Christ the Lord to the dignity of a sacrament.
Rings denote commitment. They are a sign to others that the Nun or Priest is not available, except in serving as a Sister, Brother, Nun, or Priest. Brothers also do not receive Holy Orders or matrimony, but their commitment, when lived authentically, is truly valuable, as is that of Sisters and Nuns.
Canon Law:
Canon 1055.1 The marriage covenant, by which a man and a woman establish between themselves a partnership of their whole life, and which of its own very nature is ordered to the well-being of the spouses and to the procreation and upbringing of children, has, between the baptised, been raised by Christ the Lord to the dignity of a sacrament.
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Love_Divine
Guest
I thought that was part of the purpose of wearing a habit/clerical suit/cassock and collar?
T
Trishie
Guest
Yes, but many don’t these days! The ring is a private choice for a priest. Many don’t wear them. Some simply wear a cross on collar or pocket.I thought that was part of the purpose of wearing a habit/clerical suit/cassock?
I know a priest who only began to wear a ring after a woman tried to target him romantically. It seemed to be a signal, ‘keep off, I’m not available’.
Rings are worn, yes, to denote marital commitment,
but also, alternately, to denote other kinds of commitment.
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Love_Divine
Guest
That’s a problem that needs rectifying.
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ConstantineTG
Guest
Neither. They make vows
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puzzleannie
Guest
do you mean consecrated religious sisters? no they obviously receive neither sacrament since matrimony is for married people, and they are vowed to celibacy, and holy orders is only for men.
they make a profession, vows, or consecration depending on the rules of their order, but this is not a sacrament. she is symbolically a bride of Christ because she is serving the Church and a type of the Church, and some orders may wear a wedding ring to symbolize this. A priest may wear a wedding ring because he stands in persona Christi, he is a type of Christ and his “bride” is the Church. This symbolism is expounded by St. Paul.
J
JReducation
Guest
The language is a little confusing. Religious (male and female) make vows. The usual vows are chastity, poverty and obedience. Some communities only vow obedience, because their rule and constitutions command chastity and poverty. They vow to obey the rule. Other communities, such as the Jesuits and Mother Teresa’s Missionaries of Charity make a fourth vow. The Benedictines make two: Obedience and Stability.
Through the public profession of the vows, the religious consecrates his or her life to God, in a stable community either as a hermit, monk or nun, or as an active religious. The profession of vows is not a sacrament. It is a public covenant to live the Christian life in intimate communion with Christ and your brothers or sisters in community.
Deacons, priests and bishops each receive one of the orders of the Sacrament of Holy Orders. The Sacrament of Holy Orders does not require vows. There is no covenant. However, the Church has included two promises that secular men make when they are ordained deacon. They must promise to obey their bishop and to remain celibate. If they are married, they will remain celibate if they are widowed. For those who are single, they are to remain single. This promise of celibacy is not a vow and is not the same as the vow of chastity. The promise of celibacy requires that the person live a chaste life as a single person or a married man, whatever his case may be. However, it does not require him to let go of his natural family and to become one with a spiritual family, which is the case for religious.
Males may be called to be both, religious and clergy. Women are never called to be clergy. Therefore, some men are vowed or consecrated religious and ordained clerics. Others are not.
Religious who are not ordained are canonically in the lay state. However, they are not part of the laity. There is a difference. For more information on that you can read the CCC, Perfectae Caritatis, or Vita Consacrata.
To be canonically lay, means that one is not a cleric (ordained). Why are they not part of the laity? The doctrine of the Church is that the religious life is complete by itself. Is not an intermediate state between the priesthood and the laity. It is not part of the priesthood. It is not part of the laity.
Somewhere along the lines, the Latin Church began to call priests Father and non-ordained religious Brother. Those titles are not exactly accurate. Each religious community has its own rules about titles. You have to follow them when they come to your parish. In my community, every man is Brother. Father is the superior. It makes no difference if he’s priest or not. He’s always Father. We teach the lay faithful to call all of us Brother and to call our superior, Father, regardless of whether the man is ordained or not. The stress is on the call to the consecrated life, not on the ministerial priesthood. In other words, they are brothers who serve the Church as priests. Some religious communities of men have deacons. The guy who hears your confession is always Brother or Friar. Every community has its own rules about this.
Sisters are not the counterpart of religious brothers. They are one of several forms of religious life. A woman may be a sister, nun, hermit or consecrated virgin. All of them are part of the consecrated life. A man can be a hermit, monk, friar or lay-brother. That’s where people become confused. Not all brothers are lay-brothers, even if they’re not ordained. For example, among the Carthusians, they have lay-brothers and they have brothers. The brothers are monks in solemn vows. The lay-brothers are monks in simple vows.
The marriage image is more difficult one to understand. Religious, men and women, do not marry Jesus. Marriage is only between one man and one woman (at a time). However, the image works, because in the religious life the intimacy between the religious and Christ should be as intense, as faithful, and as loving as the intimacy between spouses.
St. Francis of Assisi always referred to the brothers as spouses, mothers, and sons of God. The relationship between the religious and God is that of spouses. Like a mother brings life into the world, the religious brings the life of Christ to his brothers and sisters in community. Like a son, the religious is obedient to the Father.
As time passed, the term spouse was replaced with “bride”. You can’t call a male a “Bride of Christ.” It does not work. Eventually, many people got the mistaken idea that women religious are brides of Christ and that all male religious should be priests and those male religious who are not priests are half-baked something or other, they are neither priests nor sisters. That was very unfortunate, because it created a mindset in many Catholics in the Latin Church that Men either get married or become priests and those who are not smart enough to be priests become religious, while women become sisters. Of course everyone forgot that women can become nuns, hermits or consecrated virgins.
The wearing of a wedding band is common to many religious communities of men and women.
Finally, what about a priest who is not a religious. A secular man may be called to be a priest, but not a consecrated religious. He has choices too. He can join a diocese, usually the one where he lives or where he was baptized. He is called a Diocesan Priest or he can join a fraternity or society of priests such as Maryknoll, Missionhurts, FSSP, Christ the King or Oratorian. He does not consecrate his life to God through vows, but he belongs to a community of men who are priests working in the same ministry and supporting each other, while not having the obligations to each other that religious men and women have.
If you can remember this by morning, you get a degree in Canon Law.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
Through the public profession of the vows, the religious consecrates his or her life to God, in a stable community either as a hermit, monk or nun, or as an active religious. The profession of vows is not a sacrament. It is a public covenant to live the Christian life in intimate communion with Christ and your brothers or sisters in community.
Deacons, priests and bishops each receive one of the orders of the Sacrament of Holy Orders. The Sacrament of Holy Orders does not require vows. There is no covenant. However, the Church has included two promises that secular men make when they are ordained deacon. They must promise to obey their bishop and to remain celibate. If they are married, they will remain celibate if they are widowed. For those who are single, they are to remain single. This promise of celibacy is not a vow and is not the same as the vow of chastity. The promise of celibacy requires that the person live a chaste life as a single person or a married man, whatever his case may be. However, it does not require him to let go of his natural family and to become one with a spiritual family, which is the case for religious.
Males may be called to be both, religious and clergy. Women are never called to be clergy. Therefore, some men are vowed or consecrated religious and ordained clerics. Others are not.
Religious who are not ordained are canonically in the lay state. However, they are not part of the laity. There is a difference. For more information on that you can read the CCC, Perfectae Caritatis, or Vita Consacrata.
To be canonically lay, means that one is not a cleric (ordained). Why are they not part of the laity? The doctrine of the Church is that the religious life is complete by itself. Is not an intermediate state between the priesthood and the laity. It is not part of the priesthood. It is not part of the laity.
Somewhere along the lines, the Latin Church began to call priests Father and non-ordained religious Brother. Those titles are not exactly accurate. Each religious community has its own rules about titles. You have to follow them when they come to your parish. In my community, every man is Brother. Father is the superior. It makes no difference if he’s priest or not. He’s always Father. We teach the lay faithful to call all of us Brother and to call our superior, Father, regardless of whether the man is ordained or not. The stress is on the call to the consecrated life, not on the ministerial priesthood. In other words, they are brothers who serve the Church as priests. Some religious communities of men have deacons. The guy who hears your confession is always Brother or Friar. Every community has its own rules about this.
Sisters are not the counterpart of religious brothers. They are one of several forms of religious life. A woman may be a sister, nun, hermit or consecrated virgin. All of them are part of the consecrated life. A man can be a hermit, monk, friar or lay-brother. That’s where people become confused. Not all brothers are lay-brothers, even if they’re not ordained. For example, among the Carthusians, they have lay-brothers and they have brothers. The brothers are monks in solemn vows. The lay-brothers are monks in simple vows.
The marriage image is more difficult one to understand. Religious, men and women, do not marry Jesus. Marriage is only between one man and one woman (at a time). However, the image works, because in the religious life the intimacy between the religious and Christ should be as intense, as faithful, and as loving as the intimacy between spouses.
St. Francis of Assisi always referred to the brothers as spouses, mothers, and sons of God. The relationship between the religious and God is that of spouses. Like a mother brings life into the world, the religious brings the life of Christ to his brothers and sisters in community. Like a son, the religious is obedient to the Father.
As time passed, the term spouse was replaced with “bride”. You can’t call a male a “Bride of Christ.” It does not work. Eventually, many people got the mistaken idea that women religious are brides of Christ and that all male religious should be priests and those male religious who are not priests are half-baked something or other, they are neither priests nor sisters. That was very unfortunate, because it created a mindset in many Catholics in the Latin Church that Men either get married or become priests and those who are not smart enough to be priests become religious, while women become sisters. Of course everyone forgot that women can become nuns, hermits or consecrated virgins.
The wearing of a wedding band is common to many religious communities of men and women.
Finally, what about a priest who is not a religious. A secular man may be called to be a priest, but not a consecrated religious. He has choices too. He can join a diocese, usually the one where he lives or where he was baptized. He is called a Diocesan Priest or he can join a fraternity or society of priests such as Maryknoll, Missionhurts, FSSP, Christ the King or Oratorian. He does not consecrate his life to God through vows, but he belongs to a community of men who are priests working in the same ministry and supporting each other, while not having the obligations to each other that religious men and women have.
If you can remember this by morning, you get a degree in Canon Law.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
S
Stylites
Guest
Individual priests and nuns could have received the Sacrament of Matrimony before they became priests and religious, thinking of widowers and widows.
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J
JReducation
Guest
Don’t forget, Catholics who were born into the Oriental Churches can marry and be ordained deacons and priests.
Christians who were born Protestant, marry, become ministers and convert, can also be ordained in the Latin Church.
There was an old law that allowed a husband and wife to separate and enter religious life. The parents of St. Maximilian Kolbe did this. The father later left religious life. But the mother died a Felician Sister, a branch of the Third Order Regular of St. Francis. I don’t remember at what point the father died. He did live out the rest of his life in a Franciscan Friary.
In other words, one can be validly married and a religious. This is very rare and you need permission to do this. The Martins, the parents of St. Therese, asked for permission to do the same. He wanted to be a Franciscan Friar and the mother wanted to be a Poor Clare Nun. The permission was denied, but they were redirected to joine the Brothers and Sisters of Penance, later known as the Third Order Secular of St. Francis and today known as the Order of Secular Francisans, SFO not OSF. However, they did observe continence after the birth of their last child, with the approval of the Superior of the Secular Franciscans. You cannot to this without permission.
If I may ask for one simple favor.
For the sake of us religious men who are serving around the world and who have given their lives for the Church and the many deacons who serve our Church in the East and West, can we include them in our speech?
All of our speech seems to use the same two words, “Priests and Nuns”. The expression not only leaves out a bunch of people, but the nuns that most people mean are not nuns, they are sisters. Mother Angelica is a nun. Mother Teresa was a sister.
Seventy percent of priests are not consecrated men. Ninety-nine percent of deacons are not consecrated men either. In other words, they are not religious. They are secular men who belong to a diocese or a fraternity of priests such as the FSSP or the Maryknoll. Interestingly, the number of bishops who are consecrated religious is quite high. I would guess, by the number of bishops that I have met in different countries that 10% of the bishops whom I have met are consecrated religious.
Yesterday, I had lunch with a wonderful friend who is a priest. He is a diocesan priest. We were talking about this very point, how most people don’t understand the difference between Holy Orders and the Consecrated Life. He made this statemen. I hope I can remember it exactly as he made it.
"I had no idea that there was such a thing as religious life for men. All my life I have heard of ‘Dominican, Franciscan, Redemptorist, Salesian’ priests and simply understood that they were priests like other priests and they were different because they lived in a community. I had no idea that the religious life has nothing to do with the priesthood and that these priests lived very different lives from the rest of us in the world. Nor did I know that there were religious in these communities who lived the same life. I always thought that those whom they call ‘lay brothers’ were men who did not meet the requirements to be priests, so they were allowed to enter the community as servants to the priests.
I was blown away, a few months ago, when I met a Franciscan superior, who is not a priest nor a lay-brother. The man is a theologian who went through the same program that every priest goes through and several more years of theology that 99% of priests do not go through. He’s also a Physician and his assistant is a priest. What confused me was the the friars were calling him Father and the assistant was being called Brother. I figure that the Father was a priest and the Brother was not. I was shocked when the Brother said, ‘I’m the priest. Father X
is our superior.’ "
He began to ask me about the different charisms and forms of consecrated life. The whole concept of brotherhood vs lay-brother blew him away. He thought that all brothers are lay brother and that brotherhood simply meant that everyone in the community treats the other guy like a brother. He did not know that in some religious families a man is canonically a brother, whether he is ordained or not. These brothers go by different names: hermit, monk or friar.
When you speak about religious life and Holy Orders, remember that there is much more to it than priests and sisters. The secular deacon with the wife and 10 kids has also received Holy Orders; therefore, he too is a cleric. The bishop is also a cleric Bishops are the only members of the clergy who have the fulness of the Sacrament of Holy Orders. These men are: deacon, presbyter and bishop.
It’s more appropriate to say Holy Orders and Religious life or Holy Orders and Conscrated Life. This way you include everyone.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
S
Stylites
Guest
Thanks for all the information, Brother JRe.. . .
If I may ask for one simple favor.
For the sake of us religious men who are serving around the world and who have given their lives for the Church and the many deacons who serve our Church in the East and West, can we include them in our speech?
All of our speech seems to use the same two words, “Priests and Nuns”. The expression not only leaves out a bunch of people, but the nuns that most people mean are not nuns, they are sisters. Mother Angelica is a nun. Mother Teresa was a sister.
. . .
J
JReducation
Guest
You’re very welcome.
I was at a gathering in our diocese and the deacons and religious men happened to perk up when the bishop told the laity that was present, "In your prayers, remember that we need deacons and brothers. You seem to have forgotten them. Do not let your prayers for vocations focus only on what you need, but pray for what the Church needs. The deacons and brothers are essential to the Church’s ministry, but have become the forgotten vocation. We priests are to blame, because we have never acknowledge them. It’s time we changed beginning in prayer.
Earlier, I saw in interview between Fr. Benedict G. and Archbishop Dolan. A person in the audience asked a question about the Franciscans of the Renewal and used the phrases “priests and nuns.” Father Benedict responded, “We’re not a community of priests and nuns. We’re a community of friars and sisters.”
At that point the Archbishop chimed in and told the audience, The brother has become the forgotten religious, as if he were dispensable…
Fr. Benedict said something to the effect that we have become utilitarian in our approach to vocations. We think about, pray for and acknowledge those who serve us and meet our immediate needs. There are many men and women who are consecrated religious and they too meet the spiritual needs of the Church.
Recently, Fr. Richard, the Superior General of the Missionaries of the Poor came out and said that they have reduced the number of ordinations to the priesthood to 10% of their brothers in order to preserve the purity of the religious life. Too often people confuse Holy Orders and Consecrated Life as being one. There are now over five branches of the Franciscans that have no more ordinations or are ordaining less men for the same reason. The beauty of the religious life and its benefit for the individual and for the spiritual life of the Church has to be brought out again as it we before WW I.
I think this is where the “nun/sister” confusion comes from. We’re too young to remember the 19th century and early 20th. We had tons of priests and sisters in our parishes, but no one ever taught us that they were not what we thought they were. The priests were diocesan (secular) not consecrated me and the women were religious sisters not nuns. As a result most people don’t have a clue what makes a nun. They identify every woman who is a consecrated religious as a nun. The truth is that there are very few nuns, because it’s a way of life that is limited to very special women. God gives the grace to live this life only to a few. Other women he calls to be sisters, wives, mothers or to remain single in the world. The nuns make up only about 5% of women religious. Together with monks and hermits, they answer the call to live the most intense form of consecrated life in the Church. God calls them to the most noble way of life and to be the powerhouse of the religious life. Their way of life has all the necessary features for the salvation of the soul (the monk,hermit or nun) without any of the distractions.
Imagine being called to live in an exclusive union with God, in silence, in solitude, just you and God until the day you die. It’s really heaven on earth. That’s the way it will be in heaven. The relationship with the saints and God is one-on-one and not mediated by circumstances or others as is the case for the married person or the religious who is involved in the apostolate or the priest who is in the ministry of the ordained. These monks, nuns and hermits, don’t have any of that. They don’t need it. God has given them the grace to live a life that anticipates heaven. It’s absolutely awesome. We must pray that God will call more men and women to that way of life, not because it’s good for us, but because it’s good for them. Charity always seeks the good of the other. Obviously, because we are one Body what benefits the heart, will benefit the leg.
I’ve always liked the analogy that the religious who are closest to Christ in silence, solitude and penance are the heart of the Body, the rest of us are different parts.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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