Do soldiers go to Hell or Purgatory?

[Jean_Anders]

Hi, I believe that your father is in heaven. I know that in my sufferings I always call on the Lord and that is why he permits the suffering we go through. Your father has already been in Hell In Nam and all the suffering he had to have gone through for us and his family back home and being raised in Christianity he had the knowledge that he could call upon God for help. God knows our hearts. I think you did the right thing when you went through with his right to that last sacrament. God is all knowing and he will bless you for being merciful.

 

[YipYupYep]

Solders go to heaven.

 

[budgie2]

Every sin can be forgiven including killing in war. As a pacifist I believe any form of killing is still a sin but if there was lots of pressure on him from superiors in the army to take life this lessens his guilt alongside need for self-defence. The sacrament we normally use for forgiveness of sin including mortal sin is Confession however, we can sometimes gain indulgences for those who have already passed away. A nice book I read was Kate’s Story about a girl who tried to gain indulgences for her father. If he has passed away he is in the hands of a loving merciful God and I pray for you.

 

[Michael_David]

Every sin can be forgiven including killing in war. As a pacifist I believe any form of killing is still a sin but if there was lots of pressure on him from superiors in the army to take life this lessens his guilt alongside need for self-defence. The sacrament we normally use for forgiveness of sin including mortal sin is Confession however, we can sometimes gain indulgences for those who have already passed away. A nice book I read was Kate’s Story about a girl who tried to gain indulgences for her father. If he has passed away he is in the hands of a loving merciful God and I pray for you.

Budgie2, a question for you:
I am not a pacifist, but still believe it is wrong to kill.
Let’s say you are brought into a fire-fight… to ‘flee’ the situation (normal reaction taken here in the States, as well as how the law looks at it) would mean your AWOL; another: a cop is chasing someone who has already killed another, and around a corner has to decide whether he gets shot, or he shoots the criminal (mind you, the criminal is ‘innocent’ yet, since he has not been convicted in our courts); another: you are in your home and someone comes in the back door with a knife, intent on robbing you and taking your family hostage so you turn over everything to him, you have a gun in the dresser, and as you open the drawer to turn over money to him (with him far enough away from your family and you) do you shoot him?

Now, in any of these situations, one may say it was ‘justified’ the actions we did… since it was really ‘self-defense’ and or ‘duty’ actually a ‘reaction’ to the others ‘action’. And here you say confession would do. Will It? How would this affect you ‘down to the core’ for having done it? Evaluating this from the safety of your home, and not ever having done it, comes up WRONG compared to the one that DID do it… and what and how it affects them… even after confession and societies blessing. One may even say, if the other wouldn’t of done what he did, I wouldn’t of had to do what I did… blame the other. Wasn’t it the actions of N. Vietnam that got us there to ‘react’ and stop it? Wasn’t it the actions of Saddam in Iraq that got us there to ‘react’ and stop him? Isn’t it the actions of Bin Ladin (9-11) that has us hunting him all over the world? Isn’t our military acting more like a ‘cop’ then in the defense of our countries homeland from invasion?

I know of only one book that comes close to the effects this has on one who has to do it, in the front lines… and that is “The Dark Night of The Soul”. This is ‘close’ to the effects one goes through after being there and doing such… even after confession.

 

[CatholicBloke]

I haven’t read all of these posts so I don’t know if it was already said… sorry if it was.

First, in Exodus 17, God intercedes through Moses to help his people win a battle. They were killing. It was not only allowed by God, but supported by God. So, battles “can” be righteous.

Second, John 15:13 No one shows greater love than when he lays down his life for his friends.

I believe that soldiers are doing this. They are putting themselves into danger so that we can have freedom (including freedom to be catholic).

Further, nobody can say for certain whether or not someone who has died is headed for hell. That is between that person and God.

Having said that, there are certainly things that could or could not cause soldiers to go to hell. I am sure that it has to do with the way that they kill. Here are two examples:

1. You are shooting because you are trying to save yourself and your fellow soldiers from death.
2. You are shooting because you hate the other side and want to kill as many of those &^&s as you can.

I’m sure God sees a huge difference there. Anyway, it would seem that soldiers have the opportunity to show the greatest love possible, or to be a sinful killer. Only God knows for sure, but if your father was a good man, than chances are, he fits into the first category.

 

[polishdude]

yes but wouldn’t god be more happy if a soldier would refuse to kill and rather get killed himself? I mean it’s better to be killed by someone that kill someone.

 

[BWNM]

Michael David,

I worked in the missions with foreign missionary priests. The country went from a colonial power to a Leninist-Marxist state. I decided to leave when some of the priests started to make anti-American comments. I went to a seminar and the whole day was spent demonstrating how much Americans consume in comparison to the rest of the world, and our institutional racism against blacks. I was a pretty simple young adult and myself had grown up in the inner city in an interracial neighborhood that became primarily black.

Anyway, the suffering of the people profoundly touched me. I came home and everything that was once so much a part of me now left me isolated and unfulfilled. My friends took me out to a nice seafood dinner. I looked out the window and down to the lake water, and immediately the cloudy sky and the muddy bank of the lake looked like the water I lived by, and right away I saw suffering people with little food come to my mind. I almost vomited over the dinner table. My friends and others gradually pulled back from me. I wanted to be alone. My pastor wasn’t well and wasn’t able to give me the time he wanted. I worked in graduate school with a black neo-Marxist Ph.D. candidate, and hearing him talk made it worse. I just couldn’t adjust back home.

I went to confession to the priest I knew since I was a child. I got in there and finally told him I was carrying the sins of my country on my back and it was breaking me. I confessed my own selfishness and materialism, I confessed being an American, I mean I felt weird, but I said it. I can’t remember what happened after that. But as I left, the priest opened the door of his confessional to peak out. I felt OK.

I went back to the office at graduate school and they noticed that what was burdening me was now gone. Go in to confession and unburden on to the Lord what was bothering you about yourself. Forgive yourself. There are alot of Far Left non-Christians who think we are hypocrites because we say we are Pro Life but support going off to war. Whatever.

There are people like myself out there, irregardless of what the Church sanctions or not that still have sensitive consciences. May be if you could define and put into words and bring it to the Lord through the priest – in faith – you can be set free. It is in Jesus Christ we find true freedom.

True friends don’t abandon a friend in such a need. War is ugly, no matter what kind of man it is, psychological shock of killing another human is tremendous and stays with that person for a life time. But there is reprieve,only God himself can sooth that soul and Lord waits.

I also would like to say, that in War or any fight etc… there is only two - aggressor and defender. Defender will defend his family, country with his life, while aggressor wants to dominate and destroy, and thus he commits a serious sin, in which leads to eternal death. For in War ugliness and cruelty of human heart becomes visible.

What is sad, is that many young people in 60’s didn’t want this, many of them where drag to that war for political game pool played on international stage, and people responsible for it have blood of so many innocent people on their hands that is no even funny. That game is played today as if it was some kind of chess match. As a person who’s family lived through WWI, WWII and communist regime with its full glory, I sympathize with many Americans who have to deal post Vietnam trauma, especially that many of them where in there’s 20’s. And as of today, war continues and it will till the end of time, for there is always on aggressor and defender.

God Bless

P.S As for the Father of a soldier, pray and have trust in the Lord, for only He knows heart of your Father better then anyone else, have faith. My uncle was a staunch communist, rejected Church for many years, my family have prayed for years in silence for his conversion, it took long, long time, but he did came back to church and pass away peacefully receiving last sacraments. I miss that man so much for he was like a father to me, but I trust the Lord and continue to pray for him.

 

[TeresaofRoses]

The Old Testament has God ordering the Israelites to wage war and destroying every living thing. Many times God has ordered war to punish the sinful. Murder, more specifically premeditated murder, is a sin. How God judges a person involves what is in your heart. I believe war itself is hell, so therefore to punishment is served.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

yes but wouldn’t god be more happy if a soldier would refuse to kill and rather get killed himself? I mean it’s better to be killed by someone that kill someone.

Is it?

 

[YipYupYep]

yes but wouldn’t god be more happy if a soldier would refuse to kill and rather get killed himself? I mean it’s better to be killed by someone that kill someone.

What an awful post.

Ill bet your an American, living free in this paradise.

Every inch is fought for ground. Sacrificed for. Soaked in blood. Not yours, I’m sure.

Its right and proper for an American soldier to force the enemy, when is combat, to die for there country. Yes, there are details and situations, however, overall, the statement is true.

 

[CatholicBloke]

What an awful post.

Ill bet your an American, living free in this paradise.

Every inch is fought for ground. Sacrificed for. Soaked in blood. Not yours, I’m sure.

Its right and proper for an American soldier to force the enemy, when is combat, to die for there country. Yes, there are details and situations, however, overall, the statement is true.

I actually am not completely sure what you are trying to say. However, if you are suggesting that American soldiers are overly aggressive, you obviously very mistaken. If that is the case, I have no idea where you get your information. Even if you don’t agree with the American government’s policies on war, if you think the strategies are too aggressive, you can’t project that onto the soldiers. The soldiers are constantly scrutinized for matters of rules of engagement, so there little room to be careless. In most cases, they cannot fire until fired upon. How is that forcing the enemy to die?? Finally, if you are suggesting that the militants and terrorists who the US soldiers are fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan are being forced to fight - you need to seriously rethink this…

As for not killing and letting yourself die, that sounds very respectable when you isolate the situation. However, if you think about the implications of that action, it would definitely not be what God would want that person to do. The soldiers rely on each other for survival. If someone decides to give up, that means that another soldier could lose their life. You are potentially killing someone on your own team if you just give up. Plus, there is no guarantee that you would die. You might just get seriously injured. Then, you would force your fellow soldiers to carry you back to the base, which puts them in danger and you would take up the hospital space, medical supplies and the doctor’s time, when it could go to someone who is actually fighting.

If a soldier is contemplating this, they need to tell their commanding officer and NOT head out into battle.

 

[YipYupYep]

I actually am not completely sure what you are trying to say. However, if you are suggesting that American soldiers are overly aggressive, you obviously very mistaken.

I am not suggesting that.

Even if you don’t agree with the American government’s policies on war, if you think the strategies are too aggressive, you can’t project that onto the soldiers.

I am an American and I have no problems with the American Government and completely support out troops.

you need to seriously rethink this…

Huh?

As for not killing and letting yourself die, that sounds very respectable when you isolate the situation. However, if you think about the implications of that action, it would definitely not be what God would want that person to do. The soldiers rely on each other for survival. If someone decides to give up, that means that another soldier could lose their life. You are potentially killing someone on your own team if you just give up. Plus, there is no guarantee that you would die. You might just get seriously injured. Then, you would force your fellow soldiers to carry you back to the base, which puts them in danger and you would take up the hospital space, medical supplies and the doctor’s time, when it could go to someone who is actually fighting.

If a soldier is contemplating this, they need to tell their commanding officer and NOT head out into battle.

What does any of this have to do with my defense of the United States Armed Forces and our sacrifice on the battlefield?

 

[CatholicBloke]

I am not suggesting that.

I am an American and I have no problems with the American Government and completely support out troops.

Huh?

What does any of this have to do with my defense of the United States Armed Forces and our sacrifice on the battlefield?

Oh, well then I have no idea what you were trying to say in your previous post. Oh well.
As for the second part of my reply, I was responding to someone else. Someone asked if it would be better to let yourself be killed than to kill.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

What an awful post.

Ill bet your an American, living free in this paradise.

Every inch is fought for ground. Sacrificed for. Soaked in blood. Not yours, I’m sure.

Its right and proper for an American soldier to force the enemy, when is combat, to die for there country. Yes, there are details and situations, however, overall, the statement is true.

Thanks. I always salute those who paid the ultimate price to protect our freedom.

 

[CatholicBloke]

What an awful post.

Ill bet your an American, living free in this paradise.

Every inch is fought for ground. Sacrificed for. Soaked in blood. Not yours, I’m sure.

Its right and proper for an American soldier to force the enemy, when is combat, to die for there country. Yes, there are details and situations, however, overall, the statement is true.

Ohhhhhhhhhh! Haha, I was completely wrong about the tone of your message. Wow. I understand now! I was confused by the way you worded it. It seemed sarcastic to me. But I guess that is why writing on forums will never be as effective as talking in person

Wow, sorry for the confusion. I have very high respect for our soldiers and I thought you were attacking them.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

The OP was worried about his Dad’s soul and people are turning this into an anti-war screed. Nice.

 

[TeresaofRoses]

Some transformation in the soul must occur with soldiers whom have engaged in warfare. I wouldn’t put all my eggs in the purgatory basket, nor would I think there will be some devine retribution for a soldiers doing his or her job. What I find disturbing is, what is happening, here and now. I was reading that Fort Cambell, KY base was closed down for three days because of the suicide rate.
If you’re a soldier, and you are having trouble with stress, or readjusting to civilian life, please, please, find someone impartial and talk. There’s no shame in having trouble with post traumatic stress disorder. Just remember, there’s more to supporting the soldiers that just saying you do. Reach out to returning veterans.

 

[KRAS]

Thank you all for the Kind words and Interesting Bantar Makes for good reading at work …

it has put my heart at ease… Thank you all … again

 

[PureHeart]

My Father recently Passed away in October, He was distant from the Church and even Started to deny The Church, I did make Sure that it was a catholic funeral, Did not make to many people happy. But As he son I felt responsiable to Finish His sacrements.

Now tha he has passed away, My Prayers for him have been about Purgatory and his many castls, He was a Soldier in Vietnam and I know he had taken lives in Battle. He wore His St. Christopher Medallian the whole time, Interesting Note i Have his Medallion, << whisper and i am named christopher >> Ok i am Rambling …

My question is what is the Belief in Death of a Solder who has killed … what Is His Fate…

I think if a soldier tries to bring peace to a nation (like Iraq) or defend his nation (Pearl Harbor) ;his fate is about the same as anyone else’s; however if a soldier purposely torchers and rapes and kills and justifies his evil acts by war his fate is not so predictable. If a person is heartly sorry , I feel this makes all the difference in the world.

 

[KRAS]

friend of mine recently said this to me in regards to this question i asked …

Anyhow, without reading anything first…this would be my take. I am under the understanding (that sounds funny) that death or killing in WARTIME, or in regards to a war or any battle that you are ordered to do as working in the service, doing what your commander needs you to do…that in that case its a little different.
It doesnt fall under the same category as killing a person, say in just regular life…with the intent of killing that particular person (personal) for a particular reason.
Because generally speaking in war-time you don’t actually KNOW these people…it isn’t personal really…you are doing what your leaders say to defend your country or whatever.
You don’t actually have the intent of killing (insert name of co-worker here j/k)…
because you know them personally and consider them a despicable human being and you are going to take matters in your own hands and render out justice by way of murder.
(Not that you haven’t thought about it…i mean the co-worker with the pony-tail having thought of it…or contemplating how it would happen, or the long slow agonizing technique I, i mean whoever, would use in a situation like that.) << I HAVE PONY TAIL she’s teasing me … >>
LMFBO…but anyhow…the gist is, i think i may have heard this on some radio show or maybe EWTN, i can’t remember, but that was sort of a general explanation.

The bottom line being the “intent”. Is your “intent” to actually kill this person cuz you hate them?? Usually thats not the case in war. You are told that"so and so" is the enemy and you have to get rid of the enemy. Its a business decision made by your commanders for your country.

Now of course there will be situations where maybe it is a bit more personal obviously, you didnt want to chop the guys head off with a machete…but maybe it was to protect your unit or what not (self defense)…and the fact that if your dad had REMORSE about it, most murderers dont have remorse…so thats “contrition” and say if he wanted, after war time he could have just maybe confessed to a priest, done some form or “repair” , reparation of some kind to society or the church , blah blah…which your dad, like my bro, prob didnt do…LOLOLOL…not to laugh sorry…but thats where WE, the magnificent awesome family members come in…we pray…a lot…for their pitiful selves…and do what we can because we are so crazy we STILL LOVE THEM (its irritating aint it)…and you did the right thing by making sure he had sacrament…and the catholic stuff…good job charlie brown…i mean charlie chris…

So this was Entertaining and a fun read Any comments … or tune ups would be appreciated … Now thats its fathers day i find it hard to concentrate as it is the first year with out him for this day makes me lil emotional.