Do some Catholic pratices have pagan origins?

[BListon]

One of my good friends (she’s messianic-jewish) told me that Catholicism incorporated various Pagan beliefs into their religion. For example, she claimed that the Constantine changed the worship day from Saturday to Sunday to promote Pagan sun worship. She also mentioned that the Pope’s hat had origins in the worship of the Fish-god, Dagon, and that it is supposed to represent an open mouth and two fins. Also she mentioned that most of our holidays such as Christmas and Easter have Pagan origins also. what do I tell her?

 

[1ke]

what do I tell her?

That you have a bridge for sale?

Gullible, capital G.

 

[Armyvet007]

Ask her for specific scholarly works from where she is drawing these conclusions from. A lot of these rumors/conspiracy theories are based on pseudo-scholarly work.

 

[Bezant]

One of my good friends (she’s messianic-jewish) told me that Catholicism incorporated various Pagan beliefs into their religion. For example, she claimed that the Constantine changed the worship day from Saturday to Sunday to promote Pagan sun worship. She also mentioned that the Pope’s hat had origins in the worship of the Fish-god, Dagon, and that it is supposed to represent an open mouth and two fins. Also she mentioned that most of our holidays such as Christmas and Easter have Pagan origins also. what do I tell her?

I would ask why it’s a problem if those original practices are largely dead or unknown to us today.

Jewish, Christian and Muslim communities have all dabbled with pagan customs at one time or another and brought them into their religion.

 

[TeenageConvert]

One of my good friends (she’s messianic-jewish) told me that Catholicism incorporated various Pagan beliefs into their religion. For example, she claimed that the Constantine changed the worship day from Saturday to Sunday to promote Pagan sun worship. She also mentioned that the Pope’s hat had origins in the worship of the Fish-god, Dagon, and that it is supposed to represent an open mouth and two fins. Also she mentioned that most of our holidays such as Christmas and Easter have Pagan origins also. what do I tell her?

Some pagan practices have been adapted.
Like in ancient Rome on December 25 they celebrated the birth of the sun god, and around the time we celebrate Easter some group of pagans celebrated something about a goddess of fertility named “Ishtar” and that’s how Easter got it’s name.
The early Christians did it to blend in though. If they were fasting and celebrating at the same time as the Romans, they were less likely to be noticed and killed.

 

[1ke]

Some pagan practices have been adapted.
Like in ancient Rome on December 25 they celebrated the birth of the sun god, and around the time we celebrate Easter some group of pagans celebrated something about a goddess of fertility named “Ishtar” and that’s how Easter got it’s name.
The early Christians did it to blend in though. If they were fasting and celebrating at the same time as the Romans, they were less likely to be noticed and killed.

Neither of these things is true.

 

[Baelor]

Neither of these things is true.

The first one most definitely is accurate: Dies Natalis Solis Invicti. In fact, it is so accurate that there is a section on the page discussing connections to Christianity, including statements by His Holiness (who argues, in my opinion, convincingly that the Christmas date is connected to March 25th rather than December 25th in origin).

 

[JimmytheButcher]

Does Pagan automatically mean that something is evil?

That should be the first question when answering so common an accusation.

The answer is no. Paganism is not intrinsically evil. Not say like abortion or contraception, or income-taxes!

GK Chesterton has a wonderful write-up on the old canard which every Catholic of English speech should search out. It clears up a lot of mis-conception. I suggest a good glass of ale. Homebrew will do; that is, if you can’t find any other real beer.

Finally, I arrive at the answer, I can give. Catholicism is neither Islam nor Biblical Fundamentalism. Catholicism is not a religion of a book. Book religions are city-religions. And city religions are corrupt and in the final analysis Sodom and Gemorrah. No, Catholicism is a country religion. Catholicism is a sister to all of the pagani; that is, the country-folk.

Catholicism has much more in common with the village Hindu than the say the Salt Lake City Mormon. Catholicism has much more in common with the village idiot than with the radical femenist. Catholicism has much more in common with beer and pretzels than with fast-food and fad-diets.

Quite frankly, it doesn’t matter if Catholicism has any pagan origins at all. What matters is that the Church has recognised the intrinsic value of human reason. Mankind has always been searching for the Divine. The only thing God at the Immaculate Conception and then again at the Incarnation was pick man up and turn him in a better direction. Men and women have always known in the pagan lands that they are supposed to be on journey. The trouble they had was finding the right road. Jesus Christ came to show us that road, and it is the King’s Highway, the Road to Emmaus, the center-aisle of the metropolitan basilica and the country-church.

 

[flameburns623]

Be proud that your Christian ancestors thought so highly of their heritage (and by extension, yours) that they incorporated portions of their patrimony into the worship of the One True God. And remember: nothing which was true, pure, strong, courageous, or beautiful in pre-Christian religion is alien to our God.

 

[kalel76]

Some pagan practices have been adapted.
Like in ancient Rome on December 25 they celebrated the birth of the sun god…

This is a popular misconception that Christmas is an adapted pagan feast, but this is not true at all. See the article: Sol Invictus evidently not a precursor to Christmas It states that the pagan holiday Sol Invictus was established in 274 on December 25th. However, the dating of Christ’s birth to December 25th happened some 60 years earlier by Hippolytus.

…and around the time we celebrate Easter some group of pagans celebrated something about a goddess of fertility named “Ishtar” and that’s how Easter got it’s name.

I would like to call this a misconception, but this is more like an utter falsehood. “Easter” is the name used by English speaking Churches. Much of the Church calls the it what it actually is: Passover.

From the Wikipedia article on Easter’s Etymology:

The Greek word Πάσχα and hence the Latin form Pascha is derived from Hebrew Pesach (פֶּסַח) meaning the festival of Passover. In Greek the word Ἀνάστασις (upstanding, up-rising, resurrection) is used also as an alternative.
.
.
In all Romance languages, the name of the Easter festival is derived from the Latin Pascha. In Spanish, Easter is Pascua, in Italian and Catalan Pasqua, in Portuguese Páscoa and in Romanian Paşti. In French, the name of Easter Pâques also derives from the Latin word but the s following the a has been lost and the two letters have been transformed into a â with a circumflex accent by elision.

 

[1ke]

The first one most definitely is accurate: Dies Natalis Solis Invicti. In fact, it is so accurate that there is a section on the page discussing connections to Christianity, including statements by His Holiness (who argues, in my opinion, convincingly that the Christmas date is connected to March 25th rather than December 25th in origin).

Wikipedia? Pu-leez

If you study the history of the Feast of the Nativity, it becomes clear that Wikipedia is not a reliable source. There is much evidence for the December date unrelated to the Roman sun god. Also, Christmas was celebrated on many different days between about the years 200 and 400 in various parts of the known world.

 

[Baelor]

Wikipedia? Pu-leez

If you study the history of the Feast of the Nativity, it becomes clear that Wikipedia is not a reliable source. There is much evidence for the December date unrelated to the Roman sun god. Also, Christmas was celebrated on many different days between about the years 200 and 400 in various parts of the known world.

I am not saying they are related. I am saying they are unrelated. That does not change the fact that the poster’s statement that there was a feast to the sun god on 25 December is totally accurate, because there was. That does not mean it has any connection whatsoever to Christmas.

 

[PacoG]

The Church’s role in the world is to sanctify the world. As the Prefaces that are said during Masses of the Easter Season: “The joy of the Resurrection renews the whole world.”

Little round bread disks might have been used in some pagan services as were gold chalices, cords of beads, bowls of incense, etc. There might have been a big pagan holiday in Rome on December 25 and so forth and so on. But the Church sanctified them and put them in the service of God. Jesus’ Resurrection made the whole world good again.

As Pope Benedict said in his inaugural address: “If we let Christ into our lives, we lose nothing, nothing, absolutely nothing of what makes life free, beautiful and great…He takes nothing away, and he gives you everything. When we give ourselves to him, we receive a hundredfold in return.”

Jesus’ Resurrection renewed Sunday as a day of celebration and reclaimed it from the pagans. His passion reclaimed bread. December 25 was redeemed by the Church deciding to replace a pagan holiday with the celebration of His birth. The joy of his birth, life, passion, death, resurrection and ascension renewed the whole world.

 

[James924]

Some pagan practices have been adapted.
Like in ancient Rome on December 25 they celebrated the birth of the sun god, and around the time we celebrate Easter some group of pagans celebrated something about a goddess of fertility named “Ishtar” and that’s how Easter got it’s name.
The early Christians did it to blend in though. If they were fasting and celebrating at the same time as the Romans, they were less likely to be noticed and killed.

I actually wrote a long paper on this a couple years ago. This was made up by a guy in the 1800s named Alexander Hislop. There is no etymological connection between the english/germanic word “easter” (german eostre for east, direction sun rises, conection with spring season, etc) and the acient mesopotamian word Ishtar. Also, keep in mind the Christian name for the Holy day is Pasch or Pascha, not easter, easter is just english from the german for east. So an important question to ask is: does Ishtar sound like Pasch?

I’ve attached the paper if anyone is interested in reading it.

 

[Leon_Bloy]

She’s wrong about some of what happened, and also about the “why.”

Certainly the Church has taken pagan practices and “sanctified” them for her own purposes. So what?

Let’s say centuries ago in Germany, a pagan tribe had a pagan festival every solstice. These people then learn about Christianity, decide it’s true, ask to be baptized, and give up their pagan beliefs in favor of Christian ones. But they kind of liked having the party that went with that pagan festival at that time of year, because they got to eat special foods, etc., that they looked forward to, so the bishop in this newly Christian land tells them, “You know what? Let’s celebrate the feast day of our patron saint on that day you used to have your pagan festival. That way, you can still make all the foods, beer, etc., you were used to having that time of the year, but this way, it will be pleasing in God’s sight.”

So what’s the problem? The Church did exactly this in many times and places.

 

[A_G]

Christmas didn’t exist before the birth of Christ, and Easter didn’t exist before Christ’s death and resurrection. We as Christians celebrate Jesus’ birth at Christmas, and his resurrection at Easter. If some people celebrated other holidays at these times, that has nothing to do with us, first of all. We do NOT celebrate anything pagan on these days, or any other days that others accuse us of. And even if some “elements” were used prior to Christianity (such as let’s say the Christmas tree as some claim), that does not change the fact that we are Christian and we are celebrating and worshipping God through His only Son Jesus Christ. The Vatican erects a Christmas tree in St. Peter’s Square every year now - so what? St. Peter’s Square has an Egyptian obelisk erected - so what? On top of that obelisk is a beautiful Christian symbol - a cross!

If certain things were “baptized” or “Christianized,” it’s fine. If the Church felt something was not appropriate, it would have gotten rid of it already. We must trust the Church’s judgement.

 

[James924]

That way, you can still make all the foods, beer, etc., you were used to having that time of the year…

Careful not to include the beer part if you’re talking to a Baptist

 

[Leon_Bloy]

Christmas didn’t exist before the birth of Christ, and Easter didn’t exist before Christ’s death and resurrection. We as Christians celebrate Jesus’ birth at Christmas, and his resurrection at Easter. If some people celebrated other holidays at these times, that has nothing to do with us, first of all. We do NOT celebrate anything pagan on these days, or any other days that others accuse us of. And even if some “elements” were used prior to Christianity (such as let’s say the Christmas tree as some claim), that does not change the fact that we are Christian and we are celebrating and worshipping God through His only Son Jesus Christ. The Vatican erects a Christmas tree in St. Peter’s Square every year now - so what? St. Peter’s Square has an Egyptian obelisk erected - so what? On top of that obelisk is a beautiful Christian symbol - a cross!

If certain things were “baptized” or “Christianized,” it’s fine. If the Church felt something was not appropriate, it would have gotten rid of it already. We must trust the Church’s judgement.

Well said. The Church never adopted anything that was actually pagan in itself. The Church does the work of and continues the teaching of Jesus and Him alone, but if He didn’t say anything one way or another about something (like putting a tree in your living room at Christmastime), the Church figures, as long as it is something that encourages people in their faith and reminds them of Jesus, then why not?