Do some Marian Prayers seem to place Mary above Jesus?

[Micael]

THE THIRD NOVENA PRAYER TO OUR LADY OF PERPETUAL HELP states:

“because thou wilt obtain for me the pardon of them; nor from the devils, because thou art **more powerful ** than all hell together; nor even from Jesus, my judge, because by one prayer from thee He will be appeased”.

Am I mis-understanding something or is this passage comming dangerously close to Mary Worship against the 1st Commandment. Does it not seem to presume that Jesus does anything Mary desires(even though this may be true, presuming this is not humbe-thus even unMarian) I realize it may not be actualy saying this. However, it can be easily mis-interpreted into saying this the way it has been written?

here is the entire Novena. olph.net/olph/olphpray.htm
What do you think?

 

[porthos11]

Micael:

THE THIRD NOVENA PRAYER TO OUR LADY OF PERPETUAL HELP states:

“because thou wilt obtain for me the pardon of them; nor from the devils, because thou art **more powerful ** than all hell together; nor even from Jesus, my judge, because by one prayer from thee He will be appeased”.

Don’t leave out the immediate context:

“For, if thou protect me, I fear nothing; not from my sins, because thou wilt obtain for me the pardon of them; nor from the devils, because thou art more powerful than all hell together; nor even from Jesus, my judge, because by one prayer from thee He will be appeased.”

The prayer says I fear nothing, not sins, or devils or the justice of God, because our Lady’s prayers count much to him. Essentially, I have nothing to fear because Mary’s prayers will help me remain in a state of grace (of course, with my cooperation).

When Jesus comes as judge, there will indeed be much to fear if you are in sin. We simply ask our Lady to pray for us that we will be spared his dreadful judgment.

And yes, she is more powerful than all hell together. Why? Because she is the Savior’s Mother. She has a lot of pull with him. She is the devil’s worst enemy, aside from God himself.

 

[Micael]

I agree with you Porthos,

However, it does seem presumptuous. Nothing related to God should be presumed even if for the most righteous reasons.

Regardless your point is well taken. Thank you.

 

[NotWorthy]

Micael:

I agree with you Porthos,

However, it does seem presumptuous. Nothing related to God should be presumed even if for the most righteous reasons.

Regardless your point is well taken. Thank you.

What is presumptious about Porthos’ (well-put) post?

Notworthy

 

[Swiss_Guard]

Micael:

THE THIRD NOVENA PRAYER TO OUR LADY OF PERPETUAL HELP states:

Am I mis-understanding something or is this passage comming dangerously close to Mary Worship against the 1st Commandment. Does it not seem to presume that Jesus does anything Mary desires(even though this may be true, presuming this is not humbe-thus even unMarian)

St. Louis de Montfort says that Jesus does what Mary asks of Him because she never goes against the will of God.

If you believe that Mary is the Immaculate Conception, if you believe she was never even an occasion of sin during her life on earth, it stands to reason that she never goes against the will of God. Therefore, Mary would never ask her Son anything that is against His will!

If you don’t believe Mary is the Immaculate Conception, if you believe she is just another human being, if you believe God just used her to bring Christ into the world and then tossed her aside, then I can see where you have a problem with the prayer.

It all depends on your belief of Mary. If you believe what the Catholic Church teaches of the Blessed Mother, there is no reason to even think this prayer violates the First Commandment in any way. If you accept the errors of the Protestant reformers, then you will believe it is against the First Commandment.

 

[Lazerlike42]

Swiss Guard:

St. Louis de Montfort says that Jesus does what Mary asks of Him because she never goes against the will of God.

If you believe that Mary is the Immaculate Conception, if you believe she was never even an occasion of sin during her life on earth, it stands to reason that she never goes against the will of God. Therefore, Mary would never ask her Son anything that is against His will!

If you don’t believe Mary is the Immaculate Conception, if you believe she is just another human being, if you believe God just used her to bring Christ into the world and then tossed her aside, then I can see where you have a problem with the prayer.

It all depends on your belief of Mary. If you believe what the Catholic Church teaches of the Blessed Mother, there is no reason to even think this prayer violates the First Commandment in any way. If you accept the errors of the Protestant reformers, then you will believe it is against the First Commandment.

True except for one point - the Protestant reformers believed in the Immaculate Conception. It is modern Protestants who have chosen to jettison it.

 

[Swiss_Guard]

Lazerlike42:

True except for one point - the Protestant reformers believed in the Immaculate Conception. It is modern Protestants who have chosen to jettison it.

You are correct Lazer and thanks for pointing it out. Maritn Luther and John Calvin had no problem with the Immaculate Conception. They did have a problem with intercessory prayer and Catholic devotion to the Blessed Mother.

 

[Contarini]

The OP is misleading in one important respect. There’s no reason to think that Marian prayers put Mary above Jesus in any way. Saying that Jesus will always answer Mary’s prayers doesn’t put Mary above Jesus–Mary is still acting as a suppliant.

I do have a problem with the prayer cited, however, because it implies that a certain form of prayer is automatically effective irrespective of the choices by the person praying. There’s a mysterious relationship between prayer, free will, and divine grace. The less this is put in terms of some kind of necessary cause-effect relationship, the better.

Edwin