R
- Status
T
Tonks40
Guest
Ya got me there! LOL!!Not a Mark fan eh?
R
rlg94086
Guest
Well, that changes everything! I edited my post accordingly.
C
ComputerGeek25
Guest
God does not tolerate suffering. People, through free will enable suffering.
L
Leebo
Guest
Well stated, let me add to this.
I worked for 10 years for a state govt. I worked with emotionally disturbed children for most of that time, and juvenile offenders for the last 3 years.
Here are a list of some of the problems.
- Poor allocation of resources. They spend alot of money, mostly on beaurocrats, who never even come in contact with an emotionally disturbed child.
The Licsenced couselor will see the child probably for less than two hours a week, once individually and once in group.
The children will spend the rest of the time with people being paid the same as a small town cab driver or fast food burger flipper.
The rest goes to administrators who shuffle papers.
The more money you are paid and the more training you have the less time you spend with the children.
- What works doesn’t matter. Because of the possibility of lawsuits there are tons of guidelines and paperwork designed to cover the states arse. These guidelines are set up by “experts” who live in the state capital and most likely have never stepped foot in a mental health facility. Everything is designed to be politically correct and nothing is designed with the children in mind.
- Poor training, now don’t get me wrong, you will spend alot of time, usually over 40 hours, training, It mainly consists of reading over a bunch of policies, most of which don’t apply to you, and the others so nuinced and detailed as to make them hard to understand and impossible to memorize.
So you learn to do things that at least somewhat work. Of course when something goes wrong, you are liable, not the facility. The fact that the training is ineffective doesn’t matter.
I will leave at that for now. I may share some more examples later.
C
ComputerGeek25
Guest
Oh, we had the ultimate welfare state - The USSR. They did not incent people to go out and work and contribute to the greater good.
We all know how well that turned out.
J
JenDid
Guest
Hmm…What would Jesus do? What would the apostles say about all of this?
** 6 The community of believers was of one heart and mind, and no one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they had everything in common.
33
With great power the apostles bore witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great favor was accorded them all.
34
There was no needy person among them, for those who owned property or houses would sell them, bring the proceeds of the sale,
35
and put them at the feet of the apostles, and they were distributed to each according to need.
36
Thus Joseph, also named by the apostles Barnabas (which is translated “son of encouragement”), a Levite, a Cypriot by birth,
37
sold a piece of property that he owned, then brought the money and put it at the feet of the apostles.*
* *Acts of the Apostles, *4:32-37
Redistribution of wealth! Everything held in common! Everyone taken care of according to their need!
Sounds like a commie Liberal think tank to me…
In Christ,
Jennifer
** 6 The community of believers was of one heart and mind, and no one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they had everything in common.
33
With great power the apostles bore witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great favor was accorded them all.
34
There was no needy person among them, for those who owned property or houses would sell them, bring the proceeds of the sale,
35
and put them at the feet of the apostles, and they were distributed to each according to need.
36
Thus Joseph, also named by the apostles Barnabas (which is translated “son of encouragement”), a Levite, a Cypriot by birth,
37
sold a piece of property that he owned, then brought the money and put it at the feet of the apostles.*
* *Acts of the Apostles, *4:32-37
Redistribution of wealth! Everything held in common! Everyone taken care of according to their need!
Sounds like a commie Liberal think tank to me…
In Christ,
Jennifer
E
estesbob
Guest
And it failed then and has failed everytime it has been tried since.
R
rlg94086
Guest
Was that meant to be a model for government? I don’t see the evidence of that. It sounds more like the community decided freely that it was the best way to go…sort of like…oh, I don’t know…creating a religious order.
If you are headed off to be a nun or to live in a Catholic commune somewhere, may God bless you. Go for it!
R
rlg94086
Guest
I don’t know if the small community failed, but certainly any idea of it being a model government is false. People sold what they had and held all things in common. That works for a little while…as long as people have stuff to sell. At some point, people have to go to work and/or ask for donations. But, who gives the donations? That would be working people.
L
Leebo
Guest
I think i read this in Chicken Soup for the Soul.
A women was assigned at the last minute to teach a middle school class. As the school year progressed the childrens performance was so advanced and outstanding that it caught the attention of the principle and school administrators. The principle asked her what she had done to get such results.
She answered that she just figured they could handle the advanced pace and material due to the fact that they were intellectually gifted. The principle raised his brow and asked “gifted”?
The teacher said yes, and pulled out a list of her students with numbers beside their names. She said that with "IQ’s this high that she figured they could handle to advanced work.
The principle shyly pointed out to the teacher that the numbers were locker numbers, not IQ scores.
That story provides at least some anadoctal evidnece that raised expections can effect performance despite IQ.
A women was assigned at the last minute to teach a middle school class. As the school year progressed the childrens performance was so advanced and outstanding that it caught the attention of the principle and school administrators. The principle asked her what she had done to get such results.
She answered that she just figured they could handle the advanced pace and material due to the fact that they were intellectually gifted. The principle raised his brow and asked “gifted”?
The teacher said yes, and pulled out a list of her students with numbers beside their names. She said that with "IQ’s this high that she figured they could handle to advanced work.
The principle shyly pointed out to the teacher that the numbers were locker numbers, not IQ scores.
That story provides at least some anadoctal evidnece that raised expections can effect performance despite IQ.
L
Leebo
Guest
A very important point needs to be made here. They took their belongings to the church leaders, not the government.
J
JenDid
Guest
I wasn’t suggesting a model government. Merely a model for Christian behavior toward our fellow human beings.
When Christ told the rich young man to sell everything and come follow him, he didn’t say, “I’m starting a religious order where we’re all going to hold things in common, come follow Me.”
He did, however, mention that it was easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven. (And yes, I know he was referring to the city gate, not an actual needle.) How difficult it seems for some of us to be willing to share some of our own wealth, meager or otherwise, with those who have even less. So easy to rationalize it by assuming those in need are scammers and layabouts.
It’s so easy for people to make sweeping pronouncements about others whose situation in life isn’t like theirs. So easy to judge…but didn’t we hear something about not judging lest we be judged?
And let’s not forget “Whatever you did for the least of these, you did for Me.”
I’d rather my taxes go toward supporting the elderly, disabled, and poor children getting the health care, nutrition and education they need than pay for another multibillion dollar war. And before you all start in on me about THAT, I have two sons in the military and yes, I support the troops. Just not their idiot commander in chief.
The Peace of Christ Be With You!
Jennifer
When Christ told the rich young man to sell everything and come follow him, he didn’t say, “I’m starting a religious order where we’re all going to hold things in common, come follow Me.”
He did, however, mention that it was easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven. (And yes, I know he was referring to the city gate, not an actual needle.) How difficult it seems for some of us to be willing to share some of our own wealth, meager or otherwise, with those who have even less. So easy to rationalize it by assuming those in need are scammers and layabouts.
It’s so easy for people to make sweeping pronouncements about others whose situation in life isn’t like theirs. So easy to judge…but didn’t we hear something about not judging lest we be judged?
And let’s not forget “Whatever you did for the least of these, you did for Me.”
I’d rather my taxes go toward supporting the elderly, disabled, and poor children getting the health care, nutrition and education they need than pay for another multibillion dollar war. And before you all start in on me about THAT, I have two sons in the military and yes, I support the troops. Just not their idiot commander in chief.
The Peace of Christ Be With You!
Jennifer
J
JenDid
Guest
Those people in the example would qualify for SSI in which case their modest apartments are not paid for by their jobs. They are subsidized by the big bad government, my friends!
R
rlg94086
Guest
Hi Jennifer,
Don’t make the mistake of equating charity with taxation. They aren’t the same thing. You are correct about what Christ told us to do as individuals, and we should be very giving. However, to use His teaching to justify taxation, you are perverting it from a free gift to a forced tax.
They had taxation at the time, and Jesus was also clear that we should not evade paying our taxes, but he didn’t teach that we should tax everyone and create a nanny state.
BTW…calling the president an idiot the sentence right before saying “The Peace of Christ Be With You!” is a little odd, don’t you think?
R
rlg94086
Guest
Great! Then I guess we don’t need to increase it, do we? They are doing just fine. Thanks for pointing that out.
O
Oscarthecat
Guest
yes, this spin has been tried before. You’re not taking into account a couple of important things, though-
first, that describes a voluntary community- not a system of government that enforces mandatory compliance using the threat of imprisonment, confiscation of your property, or worse.
second, the authority of the Apostles was given by Christ, and subsists in the Church- not in the government or in bureaucrats.
I don’t reject these principles, I just reject the idea that bureaucrats should be able to impose their interpretation of these principles on the rest of us.
J
JenDid
Guest
No, I don’t think it is odd.
[Origin: 1250–1300; ME < L idiōta < Gk idités private person, layman, person* lacking skill or expertise, equiv. to idiō- (lengthened var. of idio- idio-, perh. by analogy with stratiōtés professional soldier, deriv. of stratiá army) + -tés agent n. suffix]
Jesus called Peter Satan when he was out of line and I think he’d understand where I’m coming from with my reference to Mr. Bush, given the above definition and my intent.
John Kennedy said you can judge a government by how well it treats its most vulnerable. What I was saying was I would rather have my taxes used for the purposes of helping rather than harming people. The last I checked, we still are a government of, by and for the people. Not just those who have money and jobs, but all of us. Is the system perfect? No. But you don’t cut everyone off because some may not deserve it. Do you let a child go hungry because his parents, or more likely, single parent, doesn’t have a job?
Perhaps we could bring back the poor houses Ebenezer Scrooge grumbled about paying taxes to support. But then he had a change of heart in the end, didn’t he? “Business? Mankind was my business!”- A Christmas Carol
I’m not saying we need a “Nanny State.” But I do believe there is a place for government social programs, and as long as they are administered by and for human beings, they will be imperfect programs. But that is better than saying “Every man, woman and child for themselves!”
Peace of Christ Be With You
(and the president
)Jennifer
W
Walt_Oliver
Guest
This is a friendly reminder that we expect our posters to be charitable to one another and to exhibit that same charity to those in public life, including presidents, other politicians, and members of the Church hierarchy. Name calling, no matter who the target, is prohibited.
L
Leebo
Guest
equiv. to idiō- (lengthened var. of idio- idio-, perh. by analogy with stratiōtés professional soldier, deriv. of stratiá army) + -tés agent n. suffix]
Jesus called Peter Satan when he was out of line and I think he’d understand where I’m coming from with my reference to Mr. Bush, given the above definition and my intent.
John Kennedy said you can judge a government by how well it treats its most vulnerable. What I was saying was I would rather have my taxes used for the purposes of helping rather than harming people. The last I checked, we still are a government of, by and for the people. Not just those who have money and jobs, but all of us. Is the system perfect? No. But you don’t cut everyone off because some may not deserve it. Do you let a child go hungry because his parents, or more likely, single parent, doesn’t have a job?
Perhaps we could bring back the poor houses Ebenezer Scrooge grumbled about paying taxes to support. But then he had a change of heart in the end, didn’t he? “Business? Mankind was my business!”- A Christmas Carol
I’m not saying we need a “Nanny State.” But I do believe there is a place for government social programs, and as long as they are administered by and for human beings, they will be imperfect programs. But that is better than saying “Every man, woman and child for themselves!”
Peace of Christ Be With You
(and the president
)Jennifer
Jennifer it is hard to take you serouisly when you use such vitriol and hate for the president. You are just parroting leftwing talking points.
Let me ask you a question. How much money do you think the USA has spent on social programs the past 20 years? Yet we still have the same problems. It gets old getting talked down to by people that have such poor perspective on what actully goes on.
According to your previous posts you hate the president because he is rich. That is called envy.
We have spent enough money the past 20 years to give every poor man woman and child their own mansion, car, 20 year supply of food, ect. Yet we don’t have less poor.
So people like you codemn us that say “Hey maybe we need to try something else besides tax and spend because it obviously doesn’t work” and at the same time accuse us of being judgemental.
As far as the war is concerned, we will let history judge. I know that as things go down in Europe the next few years because of their Muslim population and past appeasement of Islamist extrmeists, alot of people are going to have a different perspective than they do now. Don’t get me wrong, I think the president was probably a bit too hasty, I just understand what he is up against. You are obviously one of those people who see all the worlds evil as a product of the USA.
Sorry you feel that way. Have you considered moving to Europe?
- Status