Do the Atheists have it right: Just Be Good for Goodness' Sake?

[PRmerger]

Not really, but now that I look at it, maybe a little.

One big difference, of course. Lewis suggests that mankind can grow out of being animals due to the ability to be educated. LaVey claims mankind is the most vicious animal *because *of the ability to be educated.

Lewis maintains that we are distinguished from animals by our ability to reason, to seek.

You were being coy about whether you’re a seeker or not. I simply pointed out that being a seeker–having the ability to reason–distinguishes us from other animals.

If you’re not a seeker, so be it. That’s your choice.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

Lewis maintains that we are distinguished from animals by our ability to reason, to seek.

You were being coy about whether you’re a seeker or not. I simply pointed out that being a seeker–having the ability to reason–distinguishes us from other animals.

If you’re not a seeker, so be it. That’s your choice.

Well, first, define “seeker”. I’ve only heard of that in Harry Potter… and a Star Wars game.

 

[Faustina2001]

Wow, I have been having discussions with an Athiest For 7 years now. If your an Athiest they say they don’t believe but they have faith even though they don’t think they do everyone does. Everyone Trusts that a red light will stay red while a green one is green. But does everyone know what good is? I think Everyone has there own opinion what is good. Like was said previuosly on here, but If Athests don’t believe there is A God then why be good? I mean whats the point?

 

[PRmerger]

Well, first, define “seeker”. I’ve only heard of that in Harry Potter… and a Star Wars game.

Well, if you know what a seeker is in quidditch, then I’m pretty sure you can extrapolate what a seeker is in life. Similar concept.

 

[Sarpedon]

An atheist saying “just be good for goodness’ sake” is the same as a religious person saying “jump up and down for jumping’s sake!”

There has to be a reason why something is done.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

Well, if you know what a seeker is in quidditch, then I’m pretty sure you can extrapolate what a seeker is in life. Similar concept.

Similar concept; different goals… If you’re talking in a spiritual way, I guess I am.

 

[crowonsnow]

In one sense the only thing Christianity does is to definitively condemn the latter behavior - to claim that goodness is at the foundation, so to speak, of our universe, and that we are compelled to be part of that goodness because any other way of being goes against our very natures, even as we have the freedom to go against them.

How can you say that Christianity condemns the latter behavior if Christians carried out all those actions? Is being inherently evil somehow part of Christian belief? Why is Christianity so obsessed with evil? Can there be no Christianity without evil?

 

[fhansen]

How can you say that Christianity condemns the latter behavior if Christians carried out all those actions?

Why? Because Jesus wouldn’t have condoned the behavior and nothing in the Christian message condones it and evil exists w/without Christianity but Christianity identifies it as such and so proves her doctrine on OS to be right. Why should it surprise anyone that people behave badly?

And because of the countless people who did take the message to heart and created hospitals and orphanages and schools and universities and gave and gave and gave and made altruism a genuine value-probably for the first time in human history where previously the highest value was placed on vanquishing ones enemy instead of loving him. One has to revise history to overlook that part of it.

 

[PRmerger]

How can you say that Christianity condemns the latter behavior if Christians carried out all those actions? Is being inherently evil somehow part of Christian belief? Why is Christianity so obsessed with evil? Can there be no Christianity without evil?

Do you believe that a democracy is responsible for all the crimes committed by those in office? Do you condemn our system of government because those who claim to uphold democracy also have lied, cheated and stolen while in power?

Do you refuse to take part in the US Postal Service because a postal worker went berserk?

Do you homeschool your children because a teacher slept with a student?

 

[crowonsnow]

Do you believe that a democracy is responsible for all the crimes committed by those in office? Do you condemn our system of government because those who claim to uphold democracy also have lied, cheated and stolen while in power?

Do you refuse to take part in the US Postal Service because a postal worker went berserk?

Do you homeschool your children because a teacher slept with a student?

Christianity is not a democracy. It is a theocracy. And it’s supposed to be something better than a democracy, or a school or a postal service. So are your analogies valid?

Or are you simply stating that Christianity does in fact contain evil? That would certainly seem to be the case.

 

[PRmerger]

Christianity is not a democracy.
It is a theocracy. And it’s supposed to be something better than a democracy, or a school or a postal service. So are your analogies valid?

I am not making any analogies at all, crow. I am simply asking you if you think that democracy is evil, since proponents of democracy commit evil. Do you think the Postal Service is evil as well? What about our system of education? Haven’t some bad things been done by teachers in the name of “educating” our young?

 

[Nino]

no no no! an athiest can NOT be a good person for where did they get their values…from an aztec god who demanded human sacrifice…or a left wing nazi god who blamed the jews for every wrong,or a commie leader who demanded all concessions as in Yalta thus placing some 750million innocent christians in the tender hands of good ole Joe (thats whay FDR called him) hands and thus some 43 million were murdered! no…one who believes in only ones self cannot be deemed …good…only like a bachelor who has no wife and children…what does he know about life anyway?..there is no goodness in a athiestic culture…cuba,china etc…please I am double parked and this is pure nonsense…only Jesus brought goodness into this stupid bleak cruel world…Let us all pray that this marxist anti-semitic muslim coming into the white house will live for his entire first term,to prove once and for all that marxism is nonsense…just a gang exploiting people…let us pray that he lives and changes to see the light…signals are being sent that …well…again please join me in prayer for this young man and for America…and of course for humanity…Nino

 

[Sarpedon]

“Just be good for goodness’ sake” can only work up until the point where somebody, anybody, asks “why?”

Suppose you manage to get tons of people jumping up and down for “jumpings’ sake.” How long do you think you can keep this going?

 

[PRmerger]

Let us all pray that this marxist anti-semitic muslim coming into the white house will live for his entire first term

Yikes! You’re not saying that Obama is a muslim, are you?
What evidence do you have for that??

And why should we pray that he will live for his entire first term??

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

Yikes! You’re not saying that Obama is a muslim, are you?
What evidence do you have for that??

And why should we pray that he will live for his entire first term??

Obama is not Muslim; that’s a common misconception.

A lot of people think he may be in danger due to the amount of racists who obviously do not approve of his presidency.

Ironically Yours.

 

[PRmerger]

Obama is not Muslim; that’s a common misconception.

A lot of people think he may be in danger due to the amount of racists who obviously do not approve of his presidency.

Ironically Yours.

Just for the sake of clarity, I was not aghast that Obama was muslim–only that someone on this forum would claim that he was.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

Just for the sake of clarity, I was not aghast that Obama was muslim–only that someone on this forum would claim that he was.

Yes, I know.

 

[Ender]

I think the lesson we can take from these historical events is that without goodness in the form of humanism, Christianity is morally bankrupt.

Can morality exist without God? I have not heard anyone give an explanation of how this could be so without having to change the definition of morality. I’d be very interested in knowing what humanistic goodness is and why we should believe there is such a thing.

To answer the OP, it has always seemed to me that if God does not exist then neither the atheist nor anyone else can behave morally since morality itself would be no more real that unicorns or leprechauns. Conversely, if God exists, then the atheist can certainly behave morally where his personal opinion accords with moral truths.

Ender

 

[Sarpedon]

Generally speaking, atheism only appears in societies with efficient and preexisting justice systems.

 

[crowonsnow]

Can morality exist without God? I have not heard anyone give an explanation of how this could be so without having to change the definition of morality. I’d be very interested in knowing what humanistic goodness is and why we should believe there is such a thing.

To answer the OP, it has always seemed to me that if God does not exist then neither the atheist nor anyone else can behave morally since morality itself would be no more real that unicorns or leprechauns.