Do the catholic people worship Mary?

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6glargento said:
i think that its time for joeseph smith to be banned from this forum, he is a internet troll.
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This is another case of telling Catholics what they believe instead of asking.

I was as poorly catechised as the next baby boomer, but I never, ever, not even once attributed anything to Mary that is attributable only to God.

Mary wouldn’t have it any other way.
 
Randy_Carson said:
We’re supposed to trust the memory of a seven-year old 20-30 years later as opposed to the Catholic Church? [snip]

If you want credibility, Joseph, find a single passage from the Catechism of the Catholic Church that talks about worshipping Mary.
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Well, the Catechism may be trumps for authoritativeness, but the songs that a seven-year-old Catholic child grows up singing are probably far more likely than the Catechism to inform what he/she ends up knowing and thinking permissible where Mary and other matters are concerned.

To be fair, the OP’s question isn’t “does the Catechism or official Catholic teaching permit worship of Mary?” The question on the header and the gist of the original post is “do the Catholic people worship Mary?” The answer to the first question, as you document admirably, appears to be “no.” The answer to the second is not so obvious, and being unsure how to answer it isn’t a result of not knowing any Catholics–quite the contrary, it’s the Catholics I’ve personally known that have made me uncertain on that subject. Even to an observer of good will, the facts on the ground often point to worship (and I don’t mean hyperdoulia).
 
Joseph_Smith said:
A friend of mind has forwarded me a song that she was taught in the 2nd Grade as her catholic school. Listed her.

"Daily, daily sing to Mary Sing, my soul, her praises due;
All her feasts, her actions worship, With the heart’s devotion true.
She is mighty to deliver; Call her, trust her lovingly;
When the tempest rages round thee, She will calm the troubled sea.

Gifts of heaven she has given, Noble Lady, to our race;
She the Queen who decks her subject, With the light of God’s own grace." (Baltimore Catechism No.1, 63)

notice the ********
If Roman Catholics do not worship Mary, then why does line three say to worship her?
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While I respectfully admit that my Catholic brethren are correct when it comes to the use of the word worship, I would point out the following to all.

Line three does NOT say to worship her.

The line says, “her actions worship” Her actions. whose actions? Mary’s. Her actions what? Worship. Who does MARY’S actions worship?

The line is not saying to worship Mary. It says Mary’s actions worship. Since the next line then says that these actions are with a “heart’s true devotion” it is obvious that Mary’s actions worship God.

There is nobody saying to worship Mary here. Even though there is another older meaning for the word worship, this explanation is not even needed for this poem is talking of Mary’s actions worshiping God and are not calling for worship or devotion in the older meaning, of Mary at all. .
 
Le_Cracquere said:
Even to an observer of good will, the facts on the ground often point to worship (and I don’t mean hyperdoulia).
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Ahhh no they don’t. Sorry, but this resembles typical anti-Catholic bilgewater. “Yeah, Catholics say they don’t worship Mary, but nudge nudge wink wink” Notice we never get concrete examples of “facts on the ground”. It’s always, “I know some people who know some people who robbed some people.”

Scott
 
MariaG said:
While I respectfully admit that my Catholic brethren are correct when it comes to the use of the word worship, I would point out the following to all.

** Line three does NOT say to worship her.

The line says, “her actions worship” Her actions. whose actions? Mary’s. Her actions what? Worship. Who does MARY’S actions worship?

The line is not saying to worship Mary. It says Mary’s actions worship.** Since the next line then says that these actions are with a “heart’s true devotion” it is obvious that Mary’s actions worship God.

There is nobody saying to worship Mary here. Even though there is another older meaning for the word worship, this explanation is not even needed for this poem is talking of Mary’s actions worshiping God and are not calling for worship or devotion in the older meaning, of Mary at all. .
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Thanks Maria for catching that!!!👍
 
You still haven’t described Catholic worship and the more you post the more you prove that you do not understand Catholic worship.

Have you missed my posts, go back and read…
Either you are guilty of false witness and just bigoted or truly you are ignorant. Which one is it.

Please describe Catholic worship.
God Bless,
Scylla
 
Joseph_Smith said:
As sinners people worship the work of there hands, there education, there self rightious, there ablility, there lies, thre false concepts, there one self worth, there thinking or lack there of and they worship them all thinking they are all correct.
As a christian we are told to put off the former conduct And to put on the mind of Christ. Christ is God in the flesh and he also is our example of walking the faith out in truth. To a christian whom is seeking God and is seeking to be correct before God would indicate a good heart. Christ is the one and only person we have to Go to for wisdom as to the things that are correct and rightious in reguards to our conduct before God and in how to live correctly to God. Chist is the example God has given for all christians. Christians are being conformed in his image. So as we are being conformed to his image then he is the example we must all defer to.
The apostles are his voice to his church and in his wisdom he has given us the bible. From the beginning of the bible to the end the main focus is that God has created man and Man does not know God. Yeat we see a man here and there who know GOD, Aberham mouse ect. even a few woman have come to the truth of God as shown by God. God picks a people Israel and shows himself strong on there behalf. They in return rebell and worship all manner to things until God visits destruction on them many times. The point being God does not change. It is to be noted that Father God changes not. His wrath is stored up for those who do such.
The religious leader of then israel also engaged in worship of false idols even making the law a idol before God, engaging in all manner of sin before God. How did God expose there vast sin, he sent Jesus the promised messiah. You can’t really look at Jesus and not be faced with your own sin. To look at Jesus you have to study the scriptures he gave and the revelations that the Holy Apostles of God gave. You can’t know God and worship other gods and you can’t be saved and follow another christ. In worshiping any person in anyform other then God. That makes them your lord before the Lord of lords. To pray to another person makes that person your god and you have rejected the one true God. Sin is anything that seperates you from God. And the worship of creation over the creator is sin.
Our knowedge and wisdom as christians first and formost comes from fellowship with the Word of God. This fellowship comes in the form of the study of his word, And in praying into Christ. Our one mediator between God and man. We enter into the presents of Christ each time we pray. Thus we need not other person to mediate. A born again christian is a Priest and as spirit existing in a body. In times of prayer we enter into the presents of God presenting our pertition directly unto God thru Christ. Each of us is a extention of a Christ. We have the spirit of Christ indwelling in us and the spirit of the father is with in us. We are the tabernacle made with out hands, As each christian is a spiritual tabernacle in which Christ dwells and the Father dwells the only person that can present your prayers to Father is Christ who is in you. Thus God made each christian a priest unto God. You see you are not praying to God in heaven you are praying to God the hope of Glory in you. Thus Christ came preaching the Kingdom of God is at hand. What Kingdom a new Kingdom that has never existed. ***So are there any other people in the tabernacle of your body named Peter Paul & Mary. No one is in your spirit body execpt Christ and the Father and you. You in effect are a copy of the trinity and the heavenly tabernacle. So if none of these past saints can be in your tabernacle then can they recieve prayer and present them to God in you. No they can’t!
Yeat there is a also the existance of the eternal GOD in heaven and his Sons abode. And they exist in another state also. But as you know all these great things i need not insturct you in Error.
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I have four words for you:
White. Space.
Shorter. Posts.
 
"So if none of these past saints can be in your tabernacle then can they recieve prayer and present them to God in you. No they can’t! "

This is part of where the misunderstanding comes from… Saints are not “past”, they are alive in Christ! 🙂
 
I also seem to be having trouble. There is a reference to the Baltimore Catechism. Yet the Baltimore Catechism is in the form of questions and answers not songs.

Could you please tell me what the reference is supposed to mean?
 
Still waiting on two threads for your answer.

Please descibe official Catholic worship, or admit that you are a liar. I will apologize as incorrectly identifying you if you describe official Catholic worship.

Scylla
 
MariaG said:
Respectfully to Joseph Smith.

Is your friend the famous friend that seems to be online when on searches for “Baltimore Catechism No.1, 63”?

WORSHIPPING MARY – THE SIN OF SUPERSTITION
Subtitle: A former Catholic proves why worshipping Mary is disastrous!

Seems to be the same story.
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ehhe, there must be couple of Joseph Smith’s out there who happen to speak the same words.

I knew all along that he just copied articles online and present here as if his words. That explains why he got stuck when people asking him questions - his answers are kinda pointing to all directions.

Now, who is the real prophet? 😃
 
6glargento said:
i think that its time for joeseph smith to be banned from this forum, he is a internet troll.
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No that would give him an importance he does not deserve. It would be better to just ignore him. The problem with that is there are others who lurk here and they are waiting for the truth.
 
If the firstborn creature is the Word become flesh, she who would be the means of the Incarnation must also have been present in the divine thought before every other creature. From this stems Mary’s unique relationship with the Holy Trinity.

Amorth, G. An Exorcist Tells His Story, Ignatius, San Francisco 1999.
 
Scottgun said:
Ahhh no they don’t. Sorry, but this resembles typical anti-Catholic bilgewater. “Yeah, Catholics say they don’t worship Mary, but nudge nudge wink wink” Notice we never get concrete examples of “facts on the ground”. It’s always, “I know some people who know some people who robbed some people.”
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Must I? If you insist on the concrete examples, I was thinking of things like a fellow student at college who’d been raised on stories of Mary’s miracles and answered prayers, but never heard a thing about why her Son was crucified or much else about where He fit in; of a co-worker of mine who described her youthful understanding of the distinction between Catholicism and Protestantism by saying “they had Jesus; we had Mary.” I was thinking of Neuhaus’s Catholic Matters (excellent book), in which he conversed with a lady in his parish who explained Mary’s superior power and worshipfulness compared with her Son. I also recall the author’s bemused resolve to be charitable and not argue the point with her–I respect Fr. Neuhaus massively, but doubt he’d have been as equable towards a parishioner who expressed doubts about the Immaculate Conception or perpetual virginity.

Of course, giving concrete examples is a losing game. I know too well how this works: 1) get asked for specifics; 2) give them; and 3a) either hear the aggrieved cries of “anecdotal evidence,” or 3b) see each concrete example isolated, held down squirming, and textually dissected until it can yield up an interpretation of “not technically worship.” Let the games begin.

If you think that only a bigot could possibly be made suspicious by examples like the above, I guess I’ll have to deal with it. But for the record: if I were a receptacle of, or had much patience for, “typical anti-Catholic bilgewater,” I wouldn’t be considering RCIA.
 
Le_Cracquere said:
Must I? If you insist on the concrete examples, I was thinking of things like a fellow student at college who’d been raised on stories of Mary’s miracles and answered prayers, but never heard a thing about why her Son was crucified or much else about where He fit in; of a co-worker of mine who described her youthful understanding of the distinction between Catholicism and Protestantism by saying “they had Jesus; we had Mary.” I was thinking of Neuhaus’s Catholic Matters (excellent book), in which he conversed with a lady in his parish who explained Mary’s superior power and worshipfulness compared with her Son. I also recall the author’s bemused resolve to be charitable and not argue the point with her–I respect Fr. Neuhaus massively, but doubt he’d have been as equable towards a parishioner who expressed doubts about the Immaculate Conception or perpetual virginity.

Of course, giving concrete examples is a losing game. I know too well how this works: 1) get asked for specifics; 2) give them; and 3a) either hear the aggrieved cries of “anecdotal evidence,” or 3b) see each concrete example isolated, held down squirming, and textually dissected until it can yield up an interpretation of “not technically worship.” Let the games begin.

If you think that only a bigot could possibly be made suspicious by examples like the above, I guess I’ll have to deal with it. But for the record: if I were a receptacle of, or had much patience for, “typical anti-Catholic bilgewater,” I wouldn’t be considering RCIA.
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Well perhaps the reason people cry “ancedotal evindence” is because that all you present to bolster your case. We are to ignore 2,000 years of Church teachings because you know of two people who who misunderstand Our Churchs doctrine on Mary ?

Catholics dont worship Mary. The Church makes it clear we are not to worship Mary. I think that preety much sums it up.
 
I note that the criticism of the hymn from the Westminster Hymnal [1940] the lines are quoted out of context. To get the full meaning you need see each line in the context of the whole verse…

This is one of the favourite tricks anti-catholics like to play. Take things out of context then quote them as if they were in context. That is reprehensible. It is sheer aggression, not a genuine attempt to ask a question. I recommend you read the lines again, in the context of the whole verse.

But just a quick review here for those who do not have access to the whole hymn:

All her feasts, her actions worship, With the heart’s devotion true.

Her actions worship her Divine Son.
She is mighty to deliver; Call her, trust her lovingly;
When the tempest rages round thee, She will calm the troubled sea.
She is mother most blessed for she delivered the very Son of God, who at the foot of the cross gave her Mother-hood to His Apostle John and to us through him

Gifts of heaven she has given, Noble Lady, to our race;
She the Queen who decks her subject, With the light of God’s own grace." She gave us Christ through her noble womb which made her a Noble Lady to our race. Christ made her a permanent motherhood to His followers and co-Heirs with Christ of His Father(Baltimore Catechism No.1, 63)

The hymn you are quoting from, was written in the 12th century. I teach English. I can tell you that the meanings of language change over time. It is difficult to translate 16th century English into modern English. You are taking language from the 12th century and applying a meaning as though it was written in the last 100 years. You cannot do that with English, else you end up with mis-translations

notice the ********
**If Roman Catholics do not worship Mary, then why does line three say to worship her? **

It doesn’t. Read the whole verse again. It is Mary who is doing the worshipping of the fruit of her womb! Yours is a ludicrous mis-translation or you are

Take in consideration that in Rev.19:10, it says, “And I fell at his feet to worship him [the angel of God], And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellow-servant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God:”

The text you quote is no longer valid since the arguement you put forward is not a valid translation

THis is a hymn. Hymns are not ‘teachings ex-cathedra’ as you appear to believe.

These titles of idolerty are added to Mary by the catholic church over 1700 years.

I have never heard of them.Quote your source. Anyone can say anything but it if you cannot quote your source then it is worthless. It could also be a criminal offence to allude to someone or an organisation that you cannot substantiate. It is called slander and defamation of character. So, tell us your source then we can test it.
"Ark of the Covenant Her womb WAS the ark of the covenant
Seat of wisdom
Morning star
The burning bush
Jacob’s ladder
Benefactress
Advocate -
Helper
Guide
Foundation of the Church
Sign of hope
Restorer of life
Majestic cloud that led Israel

Tjhe rest of these cannot be answered unless you quote their context and source. As we have seen above, you have already distorted the truth by selecting text and taking it out of context, to infer meanings not intended
Mary was not created until the time of Jesus she is creation and did not in any way exist before the birth of Christ.

She by definition must have existed before Christ else how could she bear Him in her womb!!! Common sense says a mother must exist chronologically before her child!!!
In the Giving of the titles the church is climing that Mary is God.

Again, you are very careful in your criticism not to quote either your source or the context. If you seriously want an explanation, give us the context and the sourceeach one of the titles are titles of God this is blasphemy and idolery.Not valid if taken out of context
The Catholic Church teaches that all graces flow through Mary; You have misread line one of verse 5. What it actually says is: ‘all our** joys** flow through Mary’

All our joys do flow from Mary
all them join her praise to sing
trembling sing the Virgin Mother
Mother of our Lord and King

What is wrong with that!!!

So far as I am aware, no where does Mother Church say that 'all graces flow through Mary.
 
This topic is asinine…as is all objections to Catholicism…they are all simple misunderstandings of the true teachings of The Church…Does a quote from the late, great Archbishop Fulton Sheen ring a bell for anyone???
 
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