Do the Keys refer to an earthly kingdom?

[Angainor]

Jesus gave Peter the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Do Catholics take this kingdom to mean an earthly kingdom?

If so, why would Jesus teach us to pray “thy kingdom come” if the kingdom were already here?

 

[turboEDvo]

Humans were given dominion over the Earth. Peter was given the keys to Heaven. They are separate. Peter wouldn’t need keys to something he already had dominion over. I believe they are different.

Eamon

 

[Fidelis]

From the Catechism of The Catholic Church:

**The Church - instituted by Christ Jesus **

763 It was the Son’s task to accomplish the Father’s plan of salvation in the fullness of time. Its accomplishment was the reason for his being sent. “The Lord Jesus inaugurated his Church by preaching the Good News, that is, the coming of the Reign of God, promised over the ages in the scriptures.” To fulfill the Father’s will, Christ ushered in the Kingdom of heaven on earth. The Church “is the Reign of Christ already present in mystery.”

764 “This Kingdom shines out before men in the word, in the works and in the presence of Christ.” To welcome Jesus’ word is to welcome “the Kingdom itself.” The seed and beginning of the Kingdom are the “little flock” of those whom Jesus came to gather around him, the flock whose shepherd he is. They form Jesus’ true family. To those whom he thus gathered around him, he taught a new “way of acting” and a prayer of their own.

765 The Lord Jesus endowed his community with a structure that will remain until the Kingdom is fully achieved. Before all else there is the choice of the Twelve with Peter as their head. Representing the twelve tribes of Israel, they are the foundation stones of the new Jerusalem. The Twelve and the other disciples share in Christ’s mission and his power, but also in his lot. By all his actions, Christ prepares and builds his Church.

**The Church - perfected in glory **

769 “The Church . . . will receive its perfection only in the glory of heaven,” at the time of Christ’s glorious return. Until that day, “the Church progresses on her pilgrimage amidst this world’s persecutions and God’s consolations.” Here below she knows that she is in exile far from the Lord, and longs for the full coming of the Kingdom, when she will “be united in glory with her king.” The Church, and through her the world, will not be perfected in glory without great trials. Only then will “all the just from the time of Adam, ‘from Abel, the just one, to the last of the elect,’ . . . be gathered together in the universal Church in the Father’s presence.”

 

[Angainor]

Fidelis:

From the Catechism of The Catholic Church:

Catholic Catechism:

763…To fulfill the Father’s will, Christ ushered in the Kingdom of heaven on earth. The Church “is the Reign of Christ already present in mystery.”

I have to disagree. In addition to teaching us to pray “thy kingdom come”, Jesus denied his kingdom was of this earth.
John 18:36:

Jesus said "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But my kingdom is from another place

 

[Salmon]

Angainor:

I have to disagree. In addition to teaching us to pray “thy kingdom come”, Jesus denied his kingdom was of this earth.

Matt 13: 24Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

25But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

26But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

27So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

28He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

29But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

30Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

So, you believe that Jesus is saying that good people will co-exist in heaven with those plotting evil? And the time of the harvest comes AFTER we are in heaven together?

What a novel approach to visualizing heaven. I wonder why this idea hasn’t gained much popularity in 2000 years.

Peace in Christ…Salmon

 

[Steven_Merten]

Hello Angainor,

Have you ever heard the saying of St. Peter at the Pearly Gates?

Jesus swears to St. Peter that any sin that St. Peter and successors hold loost on earth, He will hold loost in heaven. Jesus swears to St. Peter that any sin that St. Peter and successors call upon him to hold bound in heaven, He will hold that sin bound in heaven. These are the “Keys to the Kingdom” (heaven).

The power behind the sacrament of reconciliation, which forgives you of your sin, is Jesus sworn oath to loost any sin in heaven that St. Peter calls upon Him to hold loost on earth. This is the key that helps you into the Kingdom.

The power behind Church Anathema is Jesus sworn oath to St. Peter to hold any sin bound in heaven that St. Peter calls upon Him to bind. You cannot go to heaven if Jesus holds you bound to a sin in heaven. Please visit Throwing Stones

NAB MAT 16:13Jesus replied, "Blest are you, Simon son of John! No mere man has revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. I for my part declare to you, you are ‘Rock,’ and on this rock I will build my church, and the jaws of death shall not prevail against it. I will entrust to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you declare bound on earth shall be bound in heaven; whatever you declare loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
NAB JOH 20:20

At the sight of the Lord the disciples rejoiced. “Peace be with you,” he said again. “As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” Then he breathed on them and said: "Recieve the Holy Spirit. If you forgive men’s sins, they are forgiven them; if you hold them bound, they are held bound."

Anathema

In passing this sentence, the pontiff is vested in amice, stole, and a violet cope, wearing his mitre, and assisted by twelve priests clad in their surplices and holding lighted candles. He takes his seat in front of the altar or in some other suitable place, amid pronounces the formula of anathema which ends with these words: “Wherefore in the name of God the All-powerful, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, of the Blessed Peter, Prince of the Apostles, and of all the saints, in virtue of the power which has been given us of binding and loosing in Heaven and on earth, **we deprive N-- himself and all his accomplices and all his abettors of the Communion of the Body and Blood of Our Lord, **we separate him from the society of all Christians, **we exclude him from the bosom of our Holy Mother the Church in Heaven and on earth, we declare him excommunicated and anathematized and we judge him condemned to eternal fire with Satan and his **angels and all the reprobate, so long as he will not burst the fetters of the demon, do penance and satisfy the Church; we deliver him to Satan to mortify his body, that his soul may be saved on the day of judgment.”

Quoted from New Advent Catholic Enyclopedia newadvent.org/cathen/01455e.htm

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com

 

[OnTheFence]

**

NAB JOH 20:20

At the sight of the Lord the disciples rejoiced. “Peace be with you,” he said again. “As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” Then he breathed on them and said: "Recieve the Holy Spirit. If you forgive men’s sins, they are forgiven them; if you hold them bound, they are held bound."

Hello,

In the passage cited above, isn’t Jesus giving ALL of the apostles
this same authority? (to loose and bind?) Why, in Matthew 16:13 single out Peter, and then in this passage, give that authority to all of them?

Respectfully,
~OTF**

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Angainor:

Jesus gave Peter the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Do Catholics take this kingdom to mean an earthly kingdom?

If so, why would Jesus teach us to pray “thy kingdom come” if the kingdom were already here?

“Kingdom” in the Gospels might equally well be translated “kingly rule” - it’s not something static, such as an earthly realm (example: Great Britain and Northern Ireland); but something active and dynamic: something God exercises: “Heaven” in this phrase is almost certainly a roundabout way of saying “God”. IOW - it means the same as “the Kingdom of God”.​

It is an eschatological reality - something which will be realised fully only in the next world; yet also something present already to some extent. And as Jesus is the Messiah of God, this kingly rule is His now, since he has been exalted as King by His Father.

Jesus speaks of this kingly rule as “among you”, “within you”, & as having “drawn near”. He is telling His hearers that it is not a political kingdom; one of the great drawbacks with the title of Messiah, was that it had exactly these wrong associations; for that is where the title comes from: from the theology of kingship reflected in the Psalms and applied to the Davidic kings before the fall of the kingdom of Judah in 586 BC. IOW, He set out to purify the word “Messiah” of its merely this-worldly meaning, and re-interpreted it: it was already used eschatologically in some circles - Jesus takes this meaning, and adds to this meaning His understanding of Himself as the Son of Man.
Actually, the whole “Our Father” is eschatological; so is the Last Supper.

In the Person of Jesus, the Kingdom is already beginning to be here - but it grows gradually, like yeast in bread; it does not “come in a way that can be observed”.

The Church is the “seed of the Kingdom”, according to Vatican II, in Lumen Gentium. Not its full presence; but a beginning of it. The Church too is an eschatological reality - because it is a seed of this eschatological kingly rule

Dispensationalists would disagree with almost everything in this post - they look for a restored Israelite Kingdom over which Jesus will visibly rule. ##

 

[Funky_Cedars]

Angainor, when i read your 1st post, i thought you were setting something up (a semantic trap?). why didn’t you just start with your ‘i disagree post’?

‘The kingdom of heaven which we pray for in this second Petition [of the Lord’s Prayer] is the great end to which is referred, and in which terminates all the preaching of the Gospel…’ Catechism of Trent
‘The kingdom will come in glory when Christ hands it over to his Father.’ Catechism of Catholic Church
the CoT also states ‘Christ our Lord reigns in us by the interior virtues of faith, hope and charity. By these virtues we are made a portion, as it were, of His kingdom…’
and St Cyprian says ‘it may even be…that the Kingdom of God means Christ himself…’ quoted in CCC
and so, if Christ is the head and the Church is His body then, while its not technically an earthly kingdom, still we are its earthly ‘outpost’.

Christ is risen!!

 

[vern_humphrey]

** **

Hello,

In the passage cited above, isn’t Jesus giving ALL of the apostles
this same authority? (to loose and bind?) Why, in Matthew 16:13 single out Peter, and then in this passage, give that authority to all of them?

Respectfully,
~OTF

By giving Peter the keys, he makes him His steward, a servant charged with running his master’s affairs. By giving him the power to loose and bind first, he emphasizes Peter’s primacy.

By extending the power to loose and bind to the Apostles, he gives the power of forgiving sins not only to the head of the Apostles, but generally to His priesthood-to-be.

 

[JohnDee]

I seem to remember learning somewhere that an usher is someone who shows the way. So, if Jesus ushered in His kingdom on earth, wasn’t He showing us the way? Wasn’t that why He came here? Without Him and His sacrifice, we are lost, and we need an “usher” to show us how to get to Heaven. I know that sounds overly simplistic, but I think it makes a modicum of sense.

To answer the original question “Do Catholics take this kingdom to mean an earthly kingdom?”: NO, and neither do Protestants! We know that eventually Christ will return to claim His Bride, and settle in for His reign in the New Jerusalem. But the Kingdom of Heaven is in Heaven, not on earth.

Why do I let myself get involved in this stuff?

J

 

[Fidelis]

Angainor:

I have to disagree. In addition to teaching us to pray “thy kingdom come”, Jesus denied his kingdom was of this earth.

The “Kingdom Come” part has been explained. You are free to disagree and remain in error.

Jesus said his Kingdom, while not of this world, was in this world.

John17
[11] And now I am no more in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name, which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are one.
[14] I have given them thy word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
[15] I do not pray that thou shouldst take them out of the world, but that thou shouldst keep them from the evil one.
[16] They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
[18] As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world

It is a “now but not yet” tension that many Protestants with an “either/or” mindset have trouble grasping.